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Old 10th August 2013, 10:30   #1
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Unhappy Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

I seem to have a very unique problem with my 6 month old Hyundai i20.

Background:
The car was driven out of the showroom with rattling noise from the suspension (defective steering wheel rack). One week later the part was replaced with a new rack but from the old generation i20. Yes! Apparently it fits but the only difference it that the bore size is slightly different.

I was unhappy since there was still some mild noise coming hence I visited the company owned service center and that's where I figured out that the old gen i20 rack was installed! Unfortunately, the new gen i20 rack was not in stock so I created some noise and have them air lift the rack from the factory within 2 days.

Visited them, rack verified, replaced. Now the other unfortunate thing was that the company owned service center does not have a wheel alignment machine functional since the past 1 month hence they send cars to a nearby local CNG/LPG conversion service station who does the wheel alignment for Hyundai cars. I was myself present there while they did it, Alignment done, we went on a trial, totally unsatisfied so they re-did the alignment manually (god knows how?)

Post, the alignment I wanted the workshop manager to go on a test drive with me to ensure we are 100% sure that things have gone right. At that time I had pointed a humming noise coming from the tyres, to this he said that since there are stick tyres (Apollo) they in deed make noise on all cars. At that time it was acceptable but right now it sounds awfully loud! I visited Hyundai Motor Plaza since I though the humming noise seems to be coming from the front wheel bearings (typical wheel bearing noise).

The service manager said the elevated noise is normal according to him and it is because of Apollo stock tires, he is sure that it is not from the wheel bearings since noise from the bearing if at all will gradually increase with speed which is not happening in my case!

This humming noise is highly audible at speeds between 30-75 km/hr and then fades away mostly due to air cutting at higher speeds! I was not satisfied and told him that the tyres have to be replaced if so much noise exists! My argument was, why buy a petrol car if it has to make so much noise when driving in the city at normal speeds? Instead I would buy a diesel car and enjoy all the commotion the engine makes! He did not have an answer and hence decided to call the Apollo engineer to inspect the tyres and confirm there is no problem!

Unfortunately, this visit started a new story in my i20's life, here it goes (email sent by me to Hyundai):

Quote:
We met Mr. Prasant from Apollo tyre's this morning and the entire process lasted for close to 4 hours. Following is a brief summary of the events that occurred today:

1. All three of us had a joint trial to inspect the noise complaint and it was agreed upon by Apollo Tyre person Mr. Prasant that the noise is coming from the tyre's and is abnormal in nature.

2. At first he inspected the front two tyres and concluded that he has observed heal & toe wear on the both the front tires to which myself & Virendra agreed.

3. Mr. Prasant said that the abnormal noise is due to the heal & toe wear hence if replaced then the noise will disappear.

4. Virendra arranged for 2 brand new tyres and we again went for a test drive and observed that the noise has reduced but not gone completely, to this Mr. Prasant from Apollo said that the rear tyres need to be checked for any defects.

5. The rear tyres were pulled out and Mr. Prasant said that the LHS tyre has heal & toe wear while the RHS tyre seems to be fine.

Hence, the conclusion from Apollo tyres is that due to incorrect alignment & problem in the suspension the heal & toe wear has occurred in a brand new car and he cannot process this for warranty claim since it is a deficiency from the car manufacturer! He has also provided this in writing and a copy of the same is with myself & Virendra (attached to this email).

I have owned & driven 11 different cars in the past 25 years and have never observed any such noise except for a similar defect in the year 1995 when my Maruti Zen had a similar noise from the tyre belt but was considered for replacement by the tyre manufacturer.

I strongly advice that all 5 tyres have to be replaced either by the Apollo tyres or by Hyundai since a previous history of suspension related issue (rack assembly replacement) starting from the time of delivery was observed and reported to Hyundai. In fact 4 different visits were made in the past for this problem. I would also like to inform you that I am not interested in trying the same Acelere model again and instead would suggest that you replace all 5 tyres in the same price range with any other higher Apollo model or different brand that Hyundai may suggest since I understand that the current tyre model has noise related concerns.

This car is brand new and I am facing trouble right since it was out from the showroom. I strongly demand immediate resolution and compensation for the fuel costs incurred for no fault of mine!
Now, the interesting part is that the serivce manager tells me that wheel & toe damage is very common on our Indian roads since the conditions are very bad. I told him don't give me this BS, I am an engineer and in my family we have owned 11 cars in 25 years so let me reassure you that wheel and toe wear is not possible due to road conditions. In any case my car is strictly not driven beyond 80 km/hr ever and this kind of poor justification is not acceptable!

I seek compensation for all this mental harassment and mental agony I am going through!

Next step: Now, I get a call from the same service manager that he will arrange 4 tyres of a different manufacturer and then personally visit my residence, replace the tyres and then check for the noise. If it disappears, we have the answer, if not, what can we do?

Another important piece of information is that the noise is definitely not from the engine because during our joint road test with the Apollo guy, the service manager slowly drifted the car to the left and turned off the engine at a speed for 50 km/hr just to prove that it has nothing to do with any humming noise from any belt in the engine! I am also attaching the report given my Apollo personnel.

In my personal view, I doubt the loud humming noise is from the tyre. I still think it is something else but what could it be? The service manager is sure it is not the bearing since it will increase with speed if at all the noise is from the bearing! He tells me that this humming noise exists in all i20's and that it depends on the customer's perspective whether he wants to hear it it not, I really do not know what to comment on this argument of his!

In any case since there is heel & toe damage on 3 out of 4 tyres he has to replace them eventually irrespective of the noise concern, but bhp-ians how do I ensure that the heel & toe damage will not occur again?


Please help!
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Last edited by xuv2390 : 10th August 2013 at 10:40.
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Old 10th August 2013, 11:34   #2
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

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Originally Posted by xuv2390 View Post
how do I ensure that the heel & toe damage will not occur again?
It is very difficult to ensure that this damage does not occur again. All you can do is to hope that the service center guys have done a good job with replacing the steering related components.
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Old 10th August 2013, 12:17   #3
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

At 23K Kms, the front tyres of my 2009 i20 completely went bald. While Hyundai chaps were adamant that it was due to road conditions, I was dead sure that it was because of the inumerable times the steering rack/column and suspension was opened and fixed to "fix" the steering rattle issue. There was no point arguing with them over the issue anymore and I replaced all four tyres with Bridgestone B250s.
Like your service centre, this particular workshop did had a "moody" wheel alignment machine, it use to remain non-functional most of the time and they used to get the wheel alignment/balancing done from outside.
Apollo Aceleres are quite noisy. The car has run for another 22K kms since I switched over to Bridgestone tyres and I found that the they are less noisy and more rugged and should be good for atleast another 15K kms.
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Old 10th August 2013, 12:51   #4
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Hi, Like to update with some of the facts to you for more clarity related to tire noise and trouble you are going through.

The following trouble shooting can be done from your end or from a local/ small workshop for a fruitful result, they are very basic one's :

1. Jack up individual wheels (both front one's) one at a time, rotate each wheel manually and place your hand on the coil spring of the shock absorber, if you feel there is some sort of vibration felt on your hand, the bearing is defective.
2. For rear wheels, place your hand on the rear dead axle , very near to the wheel hub or on the shocker rear one's.

3. Place your hand on the tread of the tyre starting from top portion and slowing moving down, check for uneven treads on the tyre, this happens due to defect on the tyre. If there is alignment problem there will be tyre wear problem on the car and tyres are defective the treads will be uneven.

4. Drive the vehicle at a speed of 50-60km/h and once the speed is gained, shift the lever to neutral especially on a plain road with less traffic only for few seconds, no ac, all windows rolled up, check the level of noise more for wheel bearing and being new car humming noise on tyre at this condition will be less.


Now the mistake done by any authorized dealer workshop on a regular basis :

1. They lift both front wheels together to check humming noise, which will be felt, as due to air cutting noise and they race the vehicle to high rpm mostly in low gear's and along with other noises in the workshop, it becomes difficult to diagnose the root cause of the problem.


It is a very common practice happens with consumers in workshop :
1. The workshop will blame the tyre company and the tyre company will blame the workshop, in between the worst effected will be the vehicle customer.

2. The tyre manufacturer will never give you 100% warranty and give some lame excuses and will always cite being wear and tear part (rubber), will provide you partial warranty. No use real waste of hard earned money.

The alignment and balancing quality is useless in workshop, better to carry out the same from good tyre outlet.

And for your manual alignment, still it is done at many reputed workshop and the accuracy on it is more than the computerized alignment machine and it is the last option for rectifying alignment.
Always insists for wheel alignment report from dealer and keep the record's for future reference's, but unfortunately most of the dealers don't provide you a alignment report, will give you a lame excuse the printer is not working.

Regards
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Old 10th August 2013, 14:02   #5
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by skanchan95 View Post
At 23K Kms, the front tyres of my 2009 i20 completely went bald. While Hyundai chaps were adamant that it was due to road conditions, I was dead sure that it was because of the inumerable times the steering rack/column and suspension was opened and fixed to "fix" the steering rattle issue. There was no point arguing with them over the issue anymore and I replaced all four tyres with Bridgestone B250s.
Like your service centre, this particular workshop did had a "moody" wheel alignment machine, it use to remain non-functional most of the time and they used to get the wheel alignment/balancing done from outside.
Apollo Aceleres are quite noisy. The car has run for another 22K kms since I switched over to Bridgestone tyres and I found that the they are less noisy and more rugged and should be good for atleast another 15K kms.
I agree with you totally. Infact I had done close to 53,000 km on my Dzire (stock JK Tyres) with 8-9 punctures and they were still good for another 10,000 km at least, but I still decided to change them! It looks like the i20's have a serious concern with the suspension and since mine is a new car with each and every visit detailed on an email I have a strong case again Hyundai. I am a fighter and will never give up!

As far as the Bridgestone's are concerned, how noisy are they compared to the Apollo Acelere's? Which tyre do you recommend? I also understand that Bridgestone's have 3 options to choose from in the same stock size! Guys, please recommend good and least noisy tyres!

In my case they will first test the car with standby tyres and if resolved they will have to buy me new tyres along with suitable compensation either in cash or in kind! I am very serious about this, in fact I am going to make them pay for each and every visit I have made to the service center right since the day of purchase.

Also, is there any suspension part that should be replaced keeping in mind the issues I have reported in the opening post? Will replacement of the rack assemble help in minimizing or reducing the chances of future tyre concerns?

Which part do they modify during the alignment? Basically, heel and toe damage is due to incorrect angle of the inner side of the tyre right? This is beacuse heel and toe damage is visible only in the inner area of my tyres.

Last edited by xuv2390 : 10th August 2013 at 14:06.
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Old 10th August 2013, 14:35   #6
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

My figo is fitted with Apollo Aceleres and I don't have any complaints after 3 years and 23000 kms. I am sure, It will last 20000 kms more. I would suggest to make sure that the adjustments are 100% correct before switching to new set of tyres.

Apart from the bearings, do tell them to inspect the brakes. Does the car roll freely on an incline when the engine is off?

I guess Most of the Aligment machines are not calibrated from time to time, which results in improper settings. Gave my car at Ford ASSC for alignment and it went for a toss ever since!

Last edited by Blow Horn Ok : 10th August 2013 at 14:38.
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Old 10th August 2013, 21:40   #7
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

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Originally Posted by Blow Horn Ok View Post
Apart from the bearings, do tell them to inspect the brakes. Does the car roll freely on an incline when the engine is off?
I brakes seem to be ok! I have to try this. What will it prove though? The car will roll freely right on an incline with the engine off right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashwin55 View Post
Hi, Like to update with some of the facts to you for more clarity related to tire noise and trouble you are going through.

The following trouble shooting can be done from your end or from a local/ small workshop for a fruitful result, they are very basic one's :

1. Jack up individual wheels (both front one's) one at a time, rotate each wheel manually and place your hand on the coil spring of the shock absorber, if you feel there is some sort of vibration felt on your hand, the bearing is defective.
2. For rear wheels, place your hand on the rear dead axle , very near to the wheel hub or on the shocker rear one's.

3. Place your hand on the tread of the tyre starting from top portion and slowing moving down, check for uneven treads on the tyre, this happens due to defect on the tyre. If there is alignment problem there will be tyre wear problem on the car and tyres are defective the treads will be uneven.

4. Drive the vehicle at a speed of 50-60km/h and once the speed is gained, shift the lever to neutral especially on a plain road with less traffic only for few seconds, no ac, all windows rolled up, check the level of noise more for wheel bearing and being new car humming noise on tyre at this condition will be less.


Now the mistake done by any authorized dealer workshop on a regular basis :

1. They lift both front wheels together to check humming noise, which will be felt, as due to air cutting noise and they race the vehicle to high rpm mostly in low gear's and along with other noises in the workshop, it becomes difficult to diagnose the root cause of the problem.

And for your manual alignment, still it is done at many reputed workshop and the accuracy on it is more than the computerized alignment machine and it is the last option for rectifying alignment.
At the onset, thank you so much for your detailed response! Let me answer:

1 & 2. I will try this next Friday when the workshop manager himself comes along with the other brand of tyres.

3. I did this at the service center in presence of the Apollo guy and observed heal and toe damage on the inner side of the tyres (3 out of 5 tyres)

4. Like I said, the i20 engine was turned off and the humming noise was loud and clearly audible.

Coming to the mistakes by Hyundai Company owned SC:

Neither the technician nor the service manager bothered to rotate the tyres and confirm the noise is not from the bearing! Very sad and unfortunate, post your comments I will now have to teach him to diagnose!

In case or computerized or manual alignment, what do they rotate to align the car? Which part or component is this? Will replacement of this along with tyre replacements help minimize any future damage like the kind observed on my tyre?

Also, the service manager informed me that in case the bearing have to be replaced then they have to send it to someone outside since the wheel hubs have to be opened and the new bearings have to be pressed using a special pressing machine. I then asked him to consider new wheel hubs, to that he said that even new hubs come without bearings in the i20!

Which tyre do you recommend as replacement to my current Apollo?

Last edited by xuv2390 : 10th August 2013 at 21:43.
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Old 10th August 2013, 22:39   #8
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Rolling freely without any kind of noise and resistance would prove that brakes are fine and its components are not culprit in the noise you hear.

Steps mentioned by nashwin55 are bang on and would help you a lot to diagnose the problem.
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Old 11th August 2013, 11:23   #9
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by xuv2390 View Post

As far as the Bridgestone's are concerned, how noisy are they compared to the Apollo Acelere's? Which tyre do you recommend? I also understand that Bridgestone's have 3 options to choose from in the same stock size! Guys, please recommend good and least noisy tyres!
I find the Bridgestone B250s to be far less noisier than the Aceleres. But then, there are be better tyres in the market than B250s. You might as well post a query or look into the Tyres forum here on team-bhp.

I actually wanted Bridgestone Potenza G3s, but they weren't in stock. So had to settle for B250s. Bridgestone tyres were actually recommended the Service Manager from another workshop based on my requirement of long lasting tyres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xuv2390 View Post

Also, is there any suspension part that should be replaced keeping in mind the issues I have reported in the opening post? Will replacement of the rack assemble help in minimizing or reducing the chances of future tyre concerns?
Hyundai was/is replacing the steering rack basically to address steering rattle concerns. Premature Tyre wear/sound is a fallout of goof ups by the service centres, either during refitting the steering related parts( rack/column/ tie rods/ suspension etc) or faulty wheel alignment system. The Tie Rods in my car were replaced alteast three times during the steering rattle fix experiments that went on over a period of nearly three years. I suspect the Tie Rods that they were fitting in my i20 were faulty as well.
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:21   #10
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Hi, Thanks for the response.

For your first query - To carry our allignment on the cars any model, the tie rod ends are adjusted with tie rods, if steering rack is replaced as an assembly tierods are fitted already with it.


Now for the tyre noise if no fruitful results comes from any one (workshop and tyre manufacturer), do the last option for reducing the tyre noise at the present stage wherein, the car is only 06 months old the noise will reduce drastically. Go to tyre shop, (any recommention required will help you with good shops) ask them to change the side of the tyres (outside facing to inside facing)not talking about tyre rotation,

The reason for doing it :
1. The toe wear is on the outside part, due to air cutting the noise is more and there is unever wear from outside to inside, the tyre load contact is more on the outside part than the inside part, once the side is changed there will be even wear both inside and outside.

There has been instances where the noise has become very minimal than earlier felt. and there are chances where in the noise goes of with time.
but cant guarantee on the same.

Good tyre's rather best in the market, presently:
yokohama A drive , Michelin 1+ .
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Old 13th August 2013, 16:14   #11
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by xuv2390 View Post
I brakes seem to be ok! I have to try this. What will it prove though? The car will roll freely right on an incline with the engine off right?


At the onset, thank you so much for your detailed response! Let me answer:

1 & 2. I will try this next Friday when the workshop manager himself comes along with the other brand of tyres.

3. I did this at the service center in presence of the Apollo guy and observed heal and toe damage on the inner side of the tyres (3 out of 5 tyres)

4. Like I said, the i20 engine was turned off and the humming noise was loud and clearly audible.

Coming to the mistakes by Hyundai Company owned SC:

Neither the technician nor the service manager bothered to rotate the tyres and confirm the noise is not from the bearing! Very sad and unfortunate, post your comments I will now have to teach him to diagnose!

In case or computerized or manual alignment, what do they rotate to align the car? Which part or component is this? Will replacement of this along with tyre replacements help minimize any future damage like the kind observed on my tyre?

Also, the service manager informed me that in case the bearing have to be replaced then they have to send it to someone outside since the wheel hubs have to be opened and the new bearings have to be pressed using a special pressing machine. I then asked him to consider new wheel hubs, to that he said that even new hubs come without bearings in the i20!

Which tyre do you recommend as replacement to my current Apollo?
Hi, in earlier vehicles the wheel bearing used come into sets, inner and outer, for some vehicles and wheel bearing as a separate part, but now days the wheel bearing comes with the hub front and rear.

In earlier vehicle there was no dust cover as a result the life of wheel bearing was limited and during water logging it was not an air tight compartment, water gets inside the bearing which needed replacement.

They were cheaper on pockets also.

Todays wheel bearing as it comes with the hubs, the life is also more and they got dust cover on them to protect from harsh road and climatic conditions, but the life of any part depends on the driving condition also. But they are expensive on pockets as complete hub assembly has to be replaced. 99.9% Authorized dealers replace the complete hub assembly as and when the wheel bearing is faulty, moreover they have to also fulfill their monthly targets in ripping us also.
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Old 13th August 2013, 21:13   #12
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Quote:
The car was driven out of the showroom with rattling noise from the suspension (defective steering wheel rack)......
More info in this please.
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Old 14th August 2013, 16:37   #13
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Unhappy re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashwin55 View Post
Authorized dealers replace the complete hub assembly as and when the wheel bearing is faulty, moreover they have to also fulfill their monthly targets in ripping us also.
Since mine will come under warranty, the service manager at HMP says that he will have to send the hub to their vendor for pressing the new bearing (in case we find a defect). Also, as I said, according to him even if he changes the hub they apparently come without the bearing so in any case we have to get it pressed from Hyundai's local vendor in Mumbai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
More info in this please.
When I drove my i20 out of the showroom I could hear rattling sound from the front suspension. The week later the dealer confirmed that the steering rack has to be replaced! Initially they replaced it with a new rack but from the old gen i20, that again failed in 3 days, so I had to wait for another week before they shipped the new gen i20 rack from the factory.

Latest Update:

1. I can now hear rattling from the front (driver side), looks like the rack has again failed in less than 6 months.

2. The company owned service center is still sourcing tyres (different manufacturer) for testing the tyre noise post which will take a decision on replacement of my tyres.

Does anyone have high level contacts in Hyundai? Please help.
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Old 14th August 2013, 19:27   #14
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Default re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

Quote:
Originally Posted by xuv2390 View Post
Since mine will come under warranty, the service manager at HMP says that he will have to send the hub to their vendor for pressing the new bearing (in case we find a defect). Also, as I said, according to him even if he changes the hub they apparently come without the bearing so in any case we have to get it pressed from Hyundai's local vendor in Mumbai.


When I drove my i20 out of the showroom I could hear rattling sound from the front suspension. The week later the dealer confirmed that the steering rack has to be replaced! Initially they replaced it with a new rack but from the old gen i20, that again failed in 3 days, so I had to wait for another week before they shipped the new gen i20 rack from the factory.

Latest Update:

1. I can now hear rattling from the front (driver side), looks like the rack has again failed in less than 6 months.

2. The company owned service center is still sourcing tyres (different manufacturer) for testing the tyre noise post which will take a decision on replacement of my tyres.

Does anyone have high level contacts in Hyundai? Please help.
what i am saying is you knowingly bought a brand new car. why didnt you just returned the car then and there.
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Old 14th August 2013, 20:36   #15
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Unhappy re: Tyre concern with my 6 month old Hyundai i20

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what i am saying is you knowingly bought a brand new car. why didnt you just returned the car then and there.
After I drive 4-5 km I realized it and the showroom of Shreenath Hyundai & Workshop is miles apart. What is the point is going back? Moreoever, I never new the issue would be so serious.

Eventually they will repair and return the car because that is what warranty terms and conditions state. I rather prefer getting the work done in front of my eyes! God knows what else they might end up doing.
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