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Old 1st June 2016, 13:31   #31
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

My experience with run-flats have been excellent so far. Yes, the ride is not as good as normal tubeless but then I didn't get the Bimmer for the ride comfort.

About getting stuck on a highway with no spare: it doesn't really bothers me because a normal puncture repair shop can fix a run-flat and you can actually drive it for some kms without worrying about the tyre giving up.

Of-course, if there is a big damage to the tyre due to a pot hole or something similar then it's true that without a spare one might get stuck in the middle of nowhere. But then run-flats have much stronger side-walls which would help to keep the damage to the minimum.

One of my colleagues from Germany was stuck on a highway due to tyre burst when he drove over broken glass bottles. But then it is Germany where you don't have so many puncture repair shops on the roads.

I also heard that they sell some kind of a spray in Germany which can be used to quickly repair puncture on the go. Although I have never tried it.
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Old 1st June 2016, 15:41   #32
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

There is one more perspective that we are missing here although I am not sure how significant it is: Safety. Does an inflated tyre lying in the boot compromise with how safe the car will be in case of a rear impact?

I am not sure but here is my theory: Most of the parts in these luxury cars will be made to crumple during an impact and absorb a lot of energy, thus saving the passengers from the impact energy. An inflated tyre will do just the opposite. It will not absorb any energy, rather it will resist an impact and will most probably blast off.

The possibility of a major rear impact is very less so this might not be significant but still this might be one of the many reasons for these manufacturers to get rid off the spare tyre from the boot.
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Old 1st June 2016, 15:45   #33
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

Whichever dimwit at BMW thought that he can sell cars without a spare wheel in India should ride with me from Bombay to Goa. If we were to have a puncture at Kosumb (300 kms in the middle), what use is their runflat tyre with a range of merely 80 - 100 kms? How far is it going to take me? Related Thread (Run Flats could go Flat).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
I support runflats - it enables you to reach a place of safety. Not having a wheel well for the spare - stupid. The amount of space lost is ridiculous. We will show you in a forthcoming test drive

Regds

Ajit
One question has always baffled me.
What happens one drives for 80 km on punctured run-flat tyre? If every time I have (okay, I wont have one since I don't have a beamer) a puncture I have to salvage a tyre since I drove 80 kms as I also do not a spare andd hence the tyre is not usable, I end up spending 30k+ in INR.

Makes no sense to me...Yes dimwit is the word for some one who thinks of run flats and no spare combination for a sports luxury car.
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Old 1st June 2016, 15:53   #34
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

I own a Opel Insignia OPC without the spare tire. Instead, I have puncture repair kit and air pump. I think of not going on a long drive with the 20 inch low profile tire.
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Old 1st June 2016, 16:34   #35
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

Back in Dec 2015, I had the same apprehension regarding absence of a spare tyre.
I bought a Q3 instead which at least has a doughnut and a dedicated wheel well.

Cheers,
AB
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Old 1st June 2016, 16:43   #36
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

Donuts or space-savers don't really cut it. Where's the space saving exactly when I need to shove a full-sized punctured wheel into the boot after putting the donut/space-saver on? Heaven help me if I'm carrying a full load of luggage.
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Old 1st June 2016, 17:36   #37
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I got a bone to pick with BMW India for 4 reasons:
[list][*]Making runflats standard.

Whichever dimwit at BMW thought that he can sell cars without a spare wheel in India should ride with me from Bombay to Goa. Where's ze common sense?!
Finally one from GTO as awaited on spare tyre stuff. I asked this question to ze mercedes Sales representative, whom i visited for test driving new C-class. He gave one quite a justifiable / digestable reason for not having spare.

1. The efficiency and stricter environmental norms: The efforts are made by all the three german to remain in the race for tax benefits to customer related to emission levels of CO2 of the car one drives in europe.

One of the easiest way to do so is to reduce the weight of the car to make it more fuel efficient and hence the part which can be easily removed without altering the design / dynamics / engine / interior quality is the spare wheel. So the spare wheel comes first.

2. The infrastructure : Their cars have seen the market in europe and USA as the biggest which has for most parts reasonably good roads and infrastructure to repair the puncture with in say 80-100 kms. Meaning India is still not seen as one of the potential markets for which they can have a space for spare under the boot.

3. The off-roaders get one: space saver ofcourse, again to reduce the weight and make the car look more fuel efficient.

Basically, the problem for mumbai to goa comes probably as the last priority to consider while designing the car and making it run faster from 0-100.

However, they need to consider regions like india, which is full of surprises on the road and giving a spare wheel instead of "driver alert for coffee" or lane departure etc. Who needs it in india anyway, we love coffee breaks, infact we drive in between breaks

P.S.: I am also not in favour of the policy of "no spare only run-flat", infact this will be a deal breaker for sure. I cant imagine to be stuck in the middle of the highway with no help and a flat. I am just sharing the information provided by authorised sales guy from one of the trio.

God Speed.
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Old 1st June 2016, 18:01   #38
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Its not just about the quality of roads in India, its also the distance to the nearest BMW dealership. In US, you have Auto Associations and their service centers spread across the country. Any problem, you just have to make a phone call and they come with a flatbed.
Sorry buddy, but that's not true. I've made many road-trips in the USA and there were times that AAA assistance was still an hour or more away. Now, if I have a flat, do I want to spend 10 minutes changing the tyre, or wait an hour for AAA?

What if the tyre gets ruptured by a sharp rock? Do I want to change to a spare or flatbed my car? AAA isn't going to get you a 275 mm tyre on a Sunday night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Secondly india is probably not even a profit making market for BMW/Or even someone like Merc and less than may be generous 10% of their total sales.
I don't care. If you sell your car here, adapt. Else, don't.

BMW has realised and that's why:

- Their newer cars have spare tyres
- They also have wheel wells!

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
It looked like the space for the 5th Tyre has been consumed by some apparatus which is connected to fuel tank. What is that apparatus?
Battery & its cables.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Well, RWD and 130 section is a dangerous mix. A slight enthusiastic outburst on the gas while in a mid corner at speed could potentially result in a dramatic spin.
It's even more dangerous because my car has a staggered setup (245s at the front, 275s at the rear).

Thus, if I use my spare wheel, my car will be running 3 different tyre sizes . I'd be wary of even 80 kph turns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
The a3 I test drove didn't have a wheel well if I remember correctly.
It does. From our official review:



Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
If you can place the spare wheel vertically in the boot, and hold it in place with luggage, I think it will be more space efficient.
Won't fit. I don't think there's enough vertical space.

Quote:
Let's say you have a puncture in front right tyre. Can you fix this space saver tyre there?
Anywhere. Overall diameter difference is within 1%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
In fact some of the newer BMW cars including 7 Series and X1 have a dedicated space for a spare tire. Have a look at the photos from Auto expo 2016
Happy to see that they admit their mistake!

Quote:
Originally Posted by naikameya View Post
One question has always baffled me.
What happens one drives for 80 km on punctured run-flat tyre? If every time I have (okay, I wont have one since I don't have a beamer) a puncture I have to salvage a tyre since I drove 80 kms as I also do not a spare andd hence the tyre is not usable, I end up spending 30k+ in INR.
Exactly! Use a runflat for 80 kms and pay 30k for a new tyre .
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Old 1st June 2016, 19:06   #39
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Exactly! Use a runflat for 80 kms and pay 30k for a new tyre .
I had hoped I would be proved wrong, but this means I will shell out 30k instead of 150 bucks since I have a spare tubeless. That is like 200 times more, just because I bought a German luxury car. One does not pay that much more for the car.

How complex/ simple is the repair of a run flat tyre? Is it similar to that of a tubeless (then one can do it on his/ her own) also what is the typical cost of repairing a run flat at a tyre shop?
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Old 1st June 2016, 19:47   #40
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

Could buying a cheap after market alloy/mag wheel which can fit this car be a solution? With a tyre better than an 135 width?

Of course, if you dont get them in single, one needs to find 3/4 more unhappy german car owners to buy a set.
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Old 1st June 2016, 20:03   #41
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

The whole idea of RFT's is good considering it originated in the developed world, where labour costs a bomb. Unlike India where you will get a lot of puncture repair guys on a road, in the developed world, you need to do this yourself. Therefore, they came up with the idea that a person could drive even with a flat tyre. This works perfectly well where the infrastructure is good.
However, when you get to the developing world, where a lot of roads are essentially moon surfaces, cities and towns are very far apart, labour is cheap (important to getting tyre repair shops charging 100 bucks for a tubeless repair and 50 bucks for a tube repair), the question becomes why cars have no spare tyres.
It essentially comes down to a combination of cost and economies of scale. The additional weight of a tyre and the space needed for it is one aspect. The other is that the bulk of the bigger cars are sold in the developed world and having to design two of the same car gets very expensive. Remember, you cannot put the spare tyre into the boot, without adding a tyre well or space for the tyre to sit. This means redesigning the boot and possibly back of the vehicle. That is not a 10 dollar change but winds up costing millions of dollars because vehicles cannot be manufactured in one plant for distribution across the globe.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 11:53   #42
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

Someone asked me why I've used 'stupid' in the title. Here's why:

- The spare didn't come as standard
- There's no place to keep it
- It's a different size than the regular tyres (space saver)
- It's expensive

In other words, whatever can be wrong with a spare, there is !

Quote:
Originally Posted by naikameya View Post
How complex/ simple is the repair of a run flat tyre? Is it similar to that of a tubeless (then one can do it on his/ her own) also what is the typical cost of repairing a run flat at a tyre shop?
Though I have no personal experience, a lot of members have gotten runflats repaired at regular tyre shops. Thus, I'm guessing there's nothing different about repairing its punctures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Could buying a cheap after market alloy/mag wheel which can fit this car be a solution? With a tyre better than an 135 width?
Hahaha, great suggestion! I definitely could have done this. Wouldn't have been too difficult with the PCD.

But I would've still gotten a space saver because of the boot space. Plus, BMW's spare kit is comprehensive (with the jack, tools etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
It essentially comes down to a combination of cost and economies of scale. The additional weight of a tyre and the space needed for it is one aspect. That is not a 10 dollar change but winds up costing millions of dollars because vehicles cannot be manufactured in one plant for distribution across the globe.
Two points:

1. Are decisions taken for the company's benefit or the actual owner's?

2. BMW has now reverted to a conventional arrangement (spare + wheel well in the boot). That means, they have accepted their mistake.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 12:24   #43
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

There's a Jag in my office basement parking, and one of its wheels is a hideous looking orange one. Baffled me to no end about why anyone would put that wheel on such a beautiful car.

This thread made me realise it's probably the spare upon closer examination, the width of the tyre is around just as much as a bike tyre.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 12:32   #44
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Default Re: Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution

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Originally Posted by RonXRi94 View Post
There's a Jag in my office basement parking, and one of its wheels is a hideous looking orange one. Baffled me to no end about why anyone would put that wheel on such a beautiful car.
Space savers are intentionally different looking. Either a black or yellow steel wheel. If it's an alloy, it's a different design.

Reason = manufacturers want to remind you to switch back to the regular wheel at the first opportunity. Running with one tyre that is narrower can severely affect the car's on-road behaviour.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 12:44   #45
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On a related Q. I have a space saver in my boot for my 3 GT. How much air should I fill in it from time to time in routine checks. I fill 30-32 in my run flats that are on the car.

Btw one aspect to be kept in mind is that in most routine punctures, you can keep filling air and driving till the next puncture wala. For that reason an electric air inflator is an important easy to stock tool in the car.
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