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Old 9th October 2006, 16:40   #1
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Question Upsize for Palio 1.6 Sports???

Hi,

I have booked a Formaula Red Palio 1.6 Sports. After the test drive, I found that ride is little harsh compared to Palio 1.2 (mostly likely because of tyres and a stiffer suspension). Now, I am not very concerned about it, but could consider upsize if it is worth it. I am thinking of 185/60 R14'' Tubeless

Here is my wish list -
1. Should improve the ride
2. Should not affect the handling too much.

And here are my quesitons -
1. What would be impact on FE?
2. How do I calculate the error in Odo and Speedo?
3. Will this invalidate my warranty?
4. Which brand will be good? Should be rugged and minimum road noise.
5. How much should i expect for my stock tubed tyres?
6. Any other cons of upsizing?

In the end, i want to thank all the members of Team-BHP who have hepled me in deciding this car.

BTW, I need to take the delivery by this weekend.
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Old 9th October 2006, 17:02   #2
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The stock are Bridgestone.
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Old 10th October 2006, 10:28   #3
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Windsurfer,

If you love driving, you'll be proud of the Palio 1.6. If you are going to du a lot of highway driving and are going to really push the car (please make sure you run the car in properly) then go in for Michelin Pilot Preceda 185/60 R14 which is the right upsize. They are expensive but phenomenal and are a perfect match for the Palio's abilities.
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Old 10th October 2006, 12:41   #4
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I got Michelin Pilot Precedas (205/50 R15) for my Palio1.2 (not 1.6) 2 months back. Upsized from 165/65 R13. I just can't put the improvement into words. The grip is *superb*, handling has improved dramatically, and on highways, the ride is smooooooooooth! Perceptibly lesser road noise too. They are a bit on the expensive side, and are suited more for performance+grip, rather than overall (life+performance+grip) ability. They ran to 5,250.00 per tyre (after a little haggling and a combo discount with the alloys) in Kochi (the dealer is now one of the 5 Michelin Showrooms in India). I changed only 4 tyres+wheels and left the spare tyre+wheel as stock. I understand from what I've read on the net that I shouldn't expect more than 35-40,000 kms out of them at the most. For what it is worth, they come with a 6 year warranty.

I think Michelin EnergyXMs will be a better choice from Michelin if you're looking for a better ride quality & life rather than better grip + handling at the cost of tyre life. The ride quality is better with EnergyXMs (as against Pilot Precedas). Only, EnergyXMs can't hold a candle to the grip & handling of the Pilot Precedas.

And if you're thinking rugged, understand that Michelins in general tend to have softer rubber (and so better grip) than other brands. Softer rubber = less rugged and more wear-prone.

You'll find a good tyre-size calculator here: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalcold.html

Last edited by hydrashok : 10th October 2006 at 12:45.
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Old 10th October 2006, 14:06   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer
I am thinking of 185/60 R14'' Tubeless

Here is my wish list -
1. Should improve the ride
2. Should not affect the handling too much.
Do NOT get 185/60, your ride is likely to get worse due to the reduced sidewall height/radius.

Look up what upsizes could result in here:
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

The correct upsize is 195/60 R14 - I have these on my GTX and can vouch for the much improved ride quality.

Even better ride quality can be had by choosing 185/65 R14, but there have been stray reports of the this size fouling with the body, when the car is fully loaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer
1. What would be impact on FE?
Figure a 10% loss when using 195/60

2. How do I calculate the error in Odo and Speedo?
Answers on the site above

3. Will this invalidate my warranty?
Unlikely

4. Which brand will be good? Should be rugged and minimum road noise.
My recommendation is for Potenza GIIIs. Goodyear NCT5 for lower budgets. Take a good look at Yokohoma as well.

5. How much should i expect for my stock tubed tyres?
Try some tyre dealers, start with Ashoka Wheels on Minister Road and Wheels in Tarbund (both in Secunderabad)

6. Any other cons of upsizing?
Not really, the pros far outweigh the cons - reduced FE is the one con that may stand out, depending on your perspective.
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Old 10th October 2006, 14:12   #6
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Thanks Airfoil. So, 195/60 is better. What happens to FE and more important warranty. I am also planning for extended warranty. Is it better to stick to stocks till warranty is finished.
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Old 10th October 2006, 14:30   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer
I have booked a Formaula Red Palio 1.6 Sports. After the test drive, I found that ride is little harsh compared to Palio 1.2 (mostly likely because of tyres and a stiffer suspension). Now, I am not very concerned about it, but could consider upsize if it is worth it. I am thinking of 185/60 R14'' Tubeless

Here is my wish list -
1. Should improve the ride
2. Should not affect the handling too much.
You have got this backwards. The objective of an upsize is usually to improve the handling at the expense of ride quality, which is bound to come down for your upsize to higher wheel dia and lower profile tyres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer
And here are my quesitons -
1. What would be impact on FE?
[...]
6. Any other cons of upsizing?
FE and top speed are bound to come down, unless you do other modifications. Your steering will feel a little stiffer. Braking may get affected too -- I am not sure about this. Your ride will be harsher and this may have a long-term impact on the suspension. Make sure that the new wheels you get are high-quality alloys that have a similar offset as compared to the OEM ones. Regarding speedo errors, others have answered. Don't know about warranty -- check with manufacturer.

In general, I would suggest going for an upsize only if you are going to drive for extended periods on the highway at high speeds or if you are taking your car to the track -- and if you are not satisfied with the handling already available with stock wheels/tyres under these conditions. You may need additional performance mods in order to maintain your high-end performance, including top speed, if you are particular about it. Check with T-BHP experts on what mods may be appropriate.

Last edited by rks : 10th October 2006 at 14:31.
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Old 10th October 2006, 14:31   #8
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Quote:
Do NOT get 185/60, your ride is likely to get worse due to the reduced sidewall height/radius.
I disagree. Pls check out 5u3zero's 1.6 GTX with 185/60/R14 Dunlop FM901.
Good ride and excellent handling.Track proven!
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Old 10th October 2006, 15:37   #9
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Nitrous, the numbers speak for themselves. And just to reiterate, we are talking about improving the ride quality, not handling. The stock tyres on the GTX/1.6 provide a rather bumpy/harsh ride and 185/60 can make this worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer
So, 195/60 is better. What happens to FE and more important warranty. I am also planning for extended warranty. Is it better to stick to stocks till warranty is finished.
Windsurfer, do not think twice before investing in the extended warranty. Think of it as insurance against component failure - and at ~Rs. 4000 for two extra years, it is a must get item.

FE always depends on your driving style and conditions that prevail, but wider tyres will get you about 10% (approximately a kilometer) less mileage.

I suggest you upgrade your tyres right away - you'll have a long ~35,000 km wait if you don't. As for the warranty getting void, make enquiries at the showroom itself. While upsizing the tyres should have no impact on the warranty - if told that your warranty will in fact become void, then tell the dealers to arrange for the upgrade themselves. Ask the works manager at the service center this question - the guys at the showroom are unlikely to give you an accurate answer.
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Old 10th October 2006, 17:50   #10
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Question

Guys,

Now I am consfused. I thought 185 will improve the ride. Some agree and some dis-agree. I am not interested in upsize if it is going to make the ride harsher even if I get better handling. Better handling is rested till i buy next set of tyres. If upsize will not improve the ride quality, then i may as well drop it.

What say???
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Old 10th October 2006, 23:07   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer
Now I am consfused. I thought 185 will improve the ride.
windsurfer, "185" is the tyre section, ie width of the part that rests on the road. the "/60" is the profile of the tyre, ie the thickness of the sidewall (the part between the road and the wheel rim). The lower/lesser the profile, the thinner the sidewall. And the thinner the sidewall, the harsher the ride (and generally, the better the handling) and costlier the tyre. And the thicker the sidewall, the better the ride-quality. If you already know this, I'm sorry for the really basic-sounding explanation.

If you go for a tyre with 65 profile or more, it will give better ride vis-a-vis a 60 profile tyre. I don't think a 1.6 shud have a problem with a 65 profile (keeping the 14" wheel size), as the stock tyre itself is 65 profile. Fouling will happen only if the tyre width is substantially wider (205 and more, I guess) if you keep 14" rims.

My setup of 205/50 R15s (on a 1.2) do foul (on the rear wheel-well lips) if I'm on bad roads and there are 2 people riding in the back. But no fouling in the front on just turning the steering.

carfreak recently switched his tyres to 195/65 R14 (he drives a Palio 1.6) and he's had no fouling issues. I think his new tyres are Falkens. He also switched alloys (from stock alloys to HRs) keeping the 14" size.

Now, personally what I think is this: if you're not switching tyres AND alloys, and you're not interested in enhancing the looks with larger diameter alloys (15"), I really think you should stick to the stock config and save some serious coin. The alloys the 1.6 come with are pretty sturdy, and can be used about as roughly as steel rims. The only advantage you will have in switching tyres (by keeping the stock alloys) will be that you can put wider rubber on the road - which is a good thing, but the total return for the expenditure, look-wise and ride-wise is prolly not worth the extra money you'll need to shell out. Just my 2 cents on this.
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Old 10th October 2006, 23:58   #12
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Quote:
If upsize will not improve the ride quality, then i may as well drop it.
If u need better ride quality, go for tubeless 175s.
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Old 11th October 2006, 09:36   #13
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If you can put up with a rather bumpy ride, stick with the stock tyres. They'll more than serve the purpose as long as you know not to push them to the limit.

If you care about ride quality, then get 195/60 or 185/65 tyres. Or switch to 175/65 tubeless. This will also help improve the ride.

Bottom line: Tyre upgrades are highly recommended, especially for a hot hatch. Tyres should typically be the first in your list of upgrades/accessories/mods, especially when the stock tyres are just about adequate.
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Old 11th October 2006, 11:43   #14
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Thanks for the input guys. I think i would just move to tubeless and no upsize right now. Does anybody know what how much extra do i need to shell out for this (Assuming that I return my tubed tyres)?
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Old 12th October 2006, 19:41   #15
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hi windsurfer,did you upgrade your tyres?i changed mine from 175/65 r 14 to 195/65 r 14 falkens.will post a seperate thread on the entire experience soon.
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