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Old 22nd September 2006, 13:02   #31
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Default Tubeless on Santro & Matiz

I have been driving Tubeless on Steel Rims (155/70/R13) initially on Santro and then swapped the same on to Matiz. To be honest, I never took extra precaution because it is Tubeless on Steel Rims. Infact I have been driving more relaxingly as I believe that I would not be having a flat tyre.. Gone through lots of potholes (Given Mumbai, this should not be a surprise!!) at good 60 KMPH but I have not observed any perceivable difference.
The only problem is the leakages. All the wheels on Santro are corroded especially at the Valve hole and hence used to leak heavily. So, got all the rims cleaned and the leaking has reduced.
But on Matiz the story is totally different. When I got my car, I had almost made up my mind to swtich into alloys due to the frequent air leakage experience on Santro. But didnt want to spend 10-12grand and was looking out for used alloys. Found a set (Baleno stock alloys for 6K) but didnt like the pattern too much. So I decided to wait for more time and swap the tyres only. But the moment we opened up the rims on Matiz, we were greeted with pleasant surprise. The inside of the rims is balckened / painted to fight rust! I immediately gave up on alloys and swapped the tyres. Its been a few moths and I get the air checked up like twice a month or so and the pressure remains more or less same!
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Old 22nd September 2006, 14:05   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satishfaction
I have been driving Tubeless on Steel Rims (155/70/R13) initially on Santro and then swapped the same on to Matiz. To be honest, I never took extra precaution because it is Tubeless on Steel Rims. Infact I have been driving more relaxingly as I believe that I would not be having a flat tyre.. Gone through lots of potholes (Given Mumbai, this should not be a surprise!!) at good 60 KMPH but I have not observed any perceivable difference.
The only problem is the leakages. All the wheels on Santro are corroded especially at the Valve hole and hence used to leak heavily. So, got all the rims cleaned and the leaking has reduced.
If you go over potholes at 60 kmph with steel rims, they might get bent -- maybe not noticeably, but even slight bending can cause air leakage with tubeless tyres. This might be one of the problems (other than rusting) with your Santro rims.

Last week I drove at night from Pune to Mumbai. At night it is just sheer hell trying to avoid potholes. But on the positive side, I am glad that I fitted tubeless because now I am forced to drive more slowly and carefully. My next big test will be in the next monsoon season when the roads become much more awful than they are now.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 14:17   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rks
But on the positive side, I am glad that I fitted tubeless because now I am forced to drive more slowly and carefully.
Same here. I recently switched to Alloys & lower profile Tubeless tyres. I kept my old (ugly) stock spare tyre and rims (different width, diameter & aspect ratio from the current/new setup).

Now I'm scared sh**less of punctures and even worse getting my alloys cracked/scratched. You should see *how* careful I am now around bad roads and potholes. My cousin (who hadn't sat in my car for about a year) whom I drove with yesterday thinks I've become a whole lot mature I used to drive like a madman before.
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Old 25th September 2006, 22:26   #34
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Further updates -- there seems to be a very slight drop in pressure, say 1-2 psi per week, in my tubeless S322 tyres -- stock size on stock steel rims. Will have to monitor further to check if this is due to some error in the gauge or is a genuine drop in pressure. With tubed tyres, there was no noticeable drop even after two weeks. The car's grip on the Expressway has increased phenomenally as compared to tubed tyres, both in wet and dry conditions. The top speed was checked just after the second Kamshet tunnel on the way to Pune -- I hit almost 155 kmph, a 5 kmph drop as compared to the 160 kmph attained at the same spot on the relatively bald tubed tyres. So the increased grip leads to a reduction in top speed -- had I upgraded tyres to 165/65 R13 instead of the stock 155/70 R13 I am sure there would have been a further drop in top speed and FE as well. Actually I have also replaced my old leaky silencer with a new non-Hyundai stainless steel silencer, so this might have affected top speed too.
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Old 30th September 2006, 09:24   #35
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Default odometer error, pressure variation

One more update. The pressure seems to vary a lot with tubeless tyres on steel rims. I had set the pressures to 32 psi on Monday morning before returning from Mumbai to Pune. Yesterday (Friday) evening when I checked the pressures in cold condition, all four tyres were reading 34-35 psi on my newly acquired compressor with gauge. I didn't see this much variation in tubed tyres -- my guess is that the heat from the steel rims is getting transmitted directly to the air in tubeless tyres, with the insulation provided by the tubes not available. So I have absolutely no idea if there is any air leakage -- probabaly not.

There is also a change in the odometer readings. The Expressway from beginning to end, used to read exactly 94 kms in the trip odometer when I had tubed tyres. Now the reading is only 93 kms, about a 1% drop. Maybe the increased tread height for the new tyres plus the fact that tubeless tyres deform less at high speeds is the cause? Very interesting. I certainly didn't expect this with stock-size (155/70 R 13) tubeless tyres.
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Old 30th September 2006, 09:52   #36
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Hey RKS,

Maybe yours is a one of case. I have been driving with tubeless tyres on steel rims since 7-8 years on cars like Opel Astra, M1000, M800, M Esteem, Hyundai Santro and Hyundai Getz. Have driven in almosat all road conditions and have never experienced any problems whatsoever of rim deformation or reduction in air pressure over a week or in between full tanks.

I think it is more to do with driving style and excessive bad roads/pot holes which may cause problems.

Viper
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Old 30th September 2006, 11:24   #37
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hi guys,
Even if you buy a new car today for example, SKODA RIDER the company gives you
tubeless tyres fitted on steel rims, so i dont think there is any problem in that.

Cheers!!!
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Old 30th September 2006, 11:44   #38
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Viper, I didn't have any problems so far. Just that I am monitoring the tyre pressures closely (too closely, perhaps) and I see much more variation than in tubed tyres. Reassuring to hear that you have had no problems over a long period.

When I said "deformation" in my previous post, I didn't mean the rims -- these will deform only if you hit potholes/stones at high speed, as you say. There is a change in odometer reading that is noticeable over long distances, as mentioned in my previous post -- maybe this is normal when you switch from almost worn-out tyres to brand new ones, or it may have something to do with the dynamic behaviour of tubeless tyres versus the tubed ones -- this is what I was referring to when I said tubeless tyres deform less at high speeds, especially under fast cornering.
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Old 16th October 2006, 16:05   #39
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Here is my last update for the time being. Tyre pressures are holding perfectly; no noticeable loss of pressure in weekly checks. Did at least four Pune-Mumbai-Pune trips on the tubeless S322 tyres. There is no question that these are superior to the tubed tyres on the highway--better grip and no noise while cornering. Plus greatly improved safety in puncture scenarios. Need to do further long-term monitoring of tyre pressures to see the effect of possible rusting of rims, plus the effect of bad roads in the next monsoon season (escaped the worst part of the monsoon this year).

Last edited by rks : 16th October 2006 at 16:08.
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Old 16th October 2006, 16:21   #40
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I have steel wheels + tubeless. When I got the tubeless tyres around 30,000kms back, I had to replace one rim due to high amount of chipping(after bend straightning). One steel wheel was replaced much before that due to a big bend which could not be straightened.

30,000kms later, everything is holding fine with no problems, however I am a little more careful on bad roads, as a big bend could mean investing in a new rim, which at 750rs isnt exactly cheap!
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Old 16th October 2006, 16:43   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper
Hey RKS,

Maybe yours is a one of case. I have been driving with tubeless tyres on steel rims since 7-8 years on cars like Opel Astra, M1000, M800, M Esteem, Hyundai Santro and Hyundai Getz. Have driven in almosat all road conditions and have never experienced any problems whatsoever of rim deformation or reduction in air pressure over a week or in between full tanks.

I think it is more to do with driving style and excessive bad roads/pot holes which may cause problems.

Viper
i have also fitted tubeless tyres on my steel rims. 6000km later, i am still happy.
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Old 17th October 2006, 15:11   #42
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The Fiesta 1.4 EXi comes with steel rims & tubeless tyres. Reading here seems like it is better I change the rims to alloy.
Do I have to change the way I drive dramatically to avoid air loss?
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Old 17th October 2006, 16:24   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theexister
The Fiesta 1.4 EXi comes with steel rims & tubeless tyres. Reading here seems like it is better I change the rims to alloy.
Do I have to change the way I drive dramatically to avoid air loss?
Stick to company-supplied steel rims. Alloys are theoretically better, but expensive and also need to be chosen carefully to match your car's specifications. The problem of rusting and resulting air loss will happen only in old rims. You need to be careful while driving on bad potholed roads -- certainly much more careful than if you had tubed tyres. But it is still worthwhile to stick to tubeless tyres, especially if you plan to do a lot of highway driving.
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Old 17th October 2006, 16:56   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rks
Stick to company-supplied steel rims. Alloys are theoretically better, but expensive and also need to be chosen carefully to match your car's specifications. The problem of rusting and resulting air loss will happen only in old rims. You need to be careful while driving on bad potholed roads -- certainly much more careful than if you had tubed tyres. But it is still worthwhile to stick to tubeless tyres, especially if you plan to do a lot of highway driving.
Matched?? If you know your cars make, you will easily get the alloy from an authorized dealer build exactly to match the original fitment.
And the benefits are not theoratical.
Bent rims may mean buying a new rim, but alloys are much more tolerant, though cheap chinese ones can crack easily.
Also, alloys are lighter and hence reduce the unsprung weight.
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Old 17th October 2006, 17:24   #45
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i had used tubeless tyres on steel rims fro 2 years had no problems except that when i hit a pothole at high speed the rim got bent and damaged the brake disc, other than those no problems with having tubeless tyres on steel rims
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