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Old 17th October 2006, 19:14   #46
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Originally Posted by tsk1979
Matched?? If you know your cars make, you will easily get the alloy from an authorized dealer build exactly to match the original fitment.
I don't believe that authorized dealers for aftermarket alloys are all that knowledgable about the precise specifications of each car. They may give you an approximate fit (with respect to parameters like offset, hub dia, etc.). And it is more than likely that the alloys will be either 5J or 5.5 J -- it is difficult to get 4J or 4.5J, which is used on most small cars (my Santro has 4J rims). The problems associated with an approximate fit have been discussed recently in a thread by sAP; these problems may show up only in high-speed driving or after a period of time, say 10000 kms of driving. And not everybody may have experienced these. But still I am not in favour of taking a gamble in the matter of wheels/tyres-- I would like the dealers of aftermarket alloys to display much more knowledge and concern for technical issues than I have seen so far.

But if you are talking about company-supplied alloys for the specific model of your car then I agree with you that there will be no problems with the match. In the case of Ford Fiesta (which sparked off this discussion) Ford dealers may supply the alloys.

Quote:
And the benefits are not theoratical.
Bent rims may mean buying a new rim, but alloys are much more tolerant, though cheap chinese ones can crack easily.
Also, alloys are lighter and hence reduce the unsprung weight.
The benefits are theoretical in the sense that there is a theory that predicts better performance from alloys. Unless you reallly rip your car around (like on a race track) you many not see too much difference in performance between stock steel rims and alloys due to difference in weight. The main advantage of alloys is that they don't bend or rust, so air sealing will be better. But this is again a theoretical advantage in the sense that steel rims have been practically almost as good as alloys in retaining air. I am surprised that my 6-year old stock rims, which have already started to rust, are holding air perfectly after 1 month and 2000 kms. The tyre mechanic swore that I will not have any problems for the lifetime of the tyres, which according to him, is 3 years. And if there is a rusting problem that develops over a long period (years), you will start to see the pressures drop gradually, upon which you can take corrective action -- either clean the rims or replace them. But my guess is that steel rims will still have a longer life than most brands of the more flimsy alloys in our road conditions.

Regarding bending of steel rims, I am not too sure I will be more confident of rough driving on bad roads with the usual brands of alloys like Aura -- but maybe the really high-quality and expensive brands like BBS are the exceptions here.
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Old 18th October 2006, 10:06   #47
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Thanks guys. Seems like the best option for me would be to stick to the steel rims for a while & then when I have enough money go for good alloys though I am planning to change the tyres, from the MRF to Brigestone/Michelin/Goodyear, on the 1.4 right away when I get it delivered.
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Old 18th October 2006, 19:37   #48
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Originally Posted by speedmiester
i had used tubeless tyres on steel rims fro 2 years had no problems except that when i hit a pothole at high speed the rim got bent and damaged the brake disc, other than those no problems with having tubeless tyres on steel rims
I have bent 4 rims with tube type tyres too ... so it is not the tubeless that were responsible for rim bends..but the tube type will hold air after the rim hasd been bent.. the tubeless might not
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Old 18th October 2006, 22:00   #49
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Default my two cents pls

I don't think tubeless and steel rims are all that bad if you drive relatively carefully..the usual pothole jumping is okay at low speeds.

And regarding the rim bending IMHO it's been blown slightly out of context. I've used 165/60 R12 Potenza tubeless on steel rims for my Maruti 800 for around 8000kms. Changed over to alloys for purely cosmetic reasons.

But a few comments...
I bent my rims around the very extreme edges a couple of times. But the seal held true. i think the bend will really have to be very deep to have an effect. But definitely it's better to take care rather than to be sorry. You definitely have to be more careful on really rough roads but i think that is a small price to pay for a better overall driving experience.

Alloys are not always lighter. The lighter alloys tend to be more expensive. The AURAs that i use weigh pretty much the same as my steel rims.

Drive on!!
Shibu.
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Old 18th October 2006, 23:13   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibujp
I don't think tubeless and steel rims are all that bad if you drive relatively carefully..the usual pothole jumping is okay at low speeds.

And regarding the rim bending IMHO it's been blown slightly out of context. I've used 165/60 R12 Potenza tubeless on steel rims for my Maruti 800 for around 8000kms. Changed over to alloys for purely cosmetic reasons.

But a few comments...
I bent my rims around the very extreme edges a couple of times. But the seal held true. i think the bend will really have to be very deep to have an effect. But definitely it's better to take care rather than to be sorry. You definitely have to be more careful on really rough roads but i think that is a small price to pay for a better overall driving experience.
165/60 -12 tyres on 4j steel rims will mostly not allow the rims to bent as most of the shock will be absorbed by the bulging sidewalls....

What was the difference u felt when u shifted to alloys??? Didn't the ride quality improve.......!! Also whats the size of alloys 5j or 5.5j

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Old 23rd October 2006, 16:00   #51
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Hi kpzen,

I do not remember the size exactly..it's 5 or 5.5..the ride became stiffer as the the bulge was well and truly decimated!! But the handling improved a little.

Drive on!!
Shibu.
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Old 1st November 2006, 02:34   #52
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I have an Indica DLG and have upgraded my car's rubber to tubeless on the steel rims. I have not faced any problems with them. In fact I have certain tends in the rims too but never have experienced the phenomen where there is a air pressure loss.

Tubeless tyres are less prone to punctures and can travel places even if they are punctured.

Hence Go FOR TUBELESS Tyres irrespective of the rim (Steel/Alloy)
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Old 1st November 2006, 15:38   #53
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Just saw this thread.


Quite frankly there's some real bullcrap floating around here, with suggestions like drive more carefully after you switch to tubeless with regular steel rims.

Tubeless tyres on steel rims are far safer than tbed ones on steel rims.

I can say that i have put my money where my mouth is.. coz i've done it.

The ride improved- a lot.
My top speed went up - and thats a fact, the tubeless were better plus i switched to higher quality tyres overall (Michelin certis)

What are the possible shortcomings-

a greedy dealer. A sensible dealer will first check your existing rims to see if they are suitable for tubeless tyres , By that i mean, he will check for damage, corrosion and the seating area of the valve.

If you have a buch of beat up crappy rims, you will suffer with tubeless tyres. You'll have to constantly refill the air etc

2. the most common prob i faced. My rims to used to occasionally make the valves leak at a v slow rate. the best option is to carry one or two spare valves in your car. In most cases if your tubeless are losing pressure, its yr valves.


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Old 1st November 2006, 16:20   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvhead
Just saw this thread.


Quite frankly there's some real bullcrap floating around here, with suggestions like drive more carefully after you switch to tubeless with regular steel rims.
I think that is sound advice, considering that steel rims can get bent and leak out air. Prior to fitting tubeless on my rims, I had them straightened out for minor bends. The problem I am most scared of is when you hit a major pothole, and two rims (front and back) get bent at the same time. That would be a nightmare.

Quote:
Tubeless tyres on steel rims are far safer than tbed ones on steel rims.

I can say that i have put my money where my mouth is.. coz i've done it.
After a lot of initial confusion, I now agree on this point. But there is a need to monitor tyre pressures and inspect your tyres more frequently to catch any sidewall damage/slow air leakage/ slow punctures caused by nails, etc., in the case of tubeless tyres, especially on steel rims. I inspect my tyres daily and check my tyre pressures once a week just before I embark on my Pune-Mumbai-Pune trips, so that I can drive at high speeds with peace of mind.

Quote:
The ride improved- a lot.
My top speed went up - and thats a fact, the tubeless were better plus i switched to higher quality tyres overall (Michelin certis)
This does not sound quite right to me. Your Michelin Certis tyres are no doubt superior in the sense that they offer better grip at high speeds, but the better grip means that the top speed should be adversely affected, unless I am badly mistaken. Relatively bald tyres should give you less grip and higher top speed, by my reckoning. That was my experience -- when I went from almost worn-out tubed tyres (less than 3 mm tread left) to new tubeless tyres, my top speed came down by about 5 kmph. But this calculation is complicated by the fact that I also replaced by tail pipe and muffler -- the old ones were leaking badly and fell off. So both of these factors probably contributed to my being able to hit 160 kph with the old setup. Now I am struggling to hit 155 kph on the same stretch.

But the tubless tyres offer fantastic grip, especially while cornering and in rainy conditions. And the fact that I can keep driving even with a slow puncture makes the tubeless tyres much safer in two respects - no sudden de-pressurization and consequent loss of control, and no need to stop the car in desolate stretches (especially on the Expressway at night). At most I would have to refill the air using the compressor that I carry and keep driving till I reach a puncture shop.
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Old 1st November 2006, 20:42   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rks
This does not sound quite right to me. Your Michelin Certis tyres are no doubt superior in the sense that they offer better grip at high speeds, but the better grip means that the top speed should be adversely affected, unless I am badly mistaken. Relatively bald tyres should give you less grip and higher top speed, by my reckoning. That was my experience -- when I went from almost worn-out tubed tyres (less than 3 mm tread left) to new tubeless tyres, my top speed came down by about 5 kmph. But this calculation is complicated by the fact that I also replaced by tail pipe and muffler -- the old ones were leaking badly and fell off. So both of these factors probably contributed to my being able to hit 160 kph with the old setup. Now I am struggling to hit 155 kph on the same stretch.

Dude, this aint F1 and these aint F1 tyres. When your regular street tyres go bald, they arent presenting the same type of rubber or construction that is on the treads. You are beginning to present mucho different rubber and some mylon fabric & cord on the road. So its not like more surface area = more grip coz the rubber has deteriorated.

Trust me,I've driven on real balds as well,till the last layer of rubber has torn off and the cord was fully exposed ( the wonders of being broke!! )
It didnt help me reach any mind numbing speeds.

Tubeless offer lesser rolling resistance and better grip than regular tyres, so should definitely improve overall performance. More than speed performance good/better also reduce Braking Distance. which is far more important!!!!

Better grip = better traction = higher speeds. How do you expect to improve speeds with tyres that dont grip the road. If you have low grip you will experience mechanical "slip", where the tyre will move one rev and the wheel wont move forward that distance.
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Old 5th November 2006, 13:37   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan
Hey Xmachine,

could you please be more specific as to what part the steel rims and tubeless tires had to play in this scenario?

cya
R
ya looks more like maintenance neglect to me.if I have got this right , the car skidded cause the engine mounting broke and the engine fell on the road ( probably one side only) and dragged the car alongwith . tubeless , tube , steel tyres , nothings going to stop the car if its at some speed
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Old 3rd April 2008, 22:31   #57
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Default tubeless tires - what make?

Guys,

I'm getting the new indica xeta delivered this weekend. Used the checklist and am quite comfortable with the package. Just wanted some advice on what would be the cost differential if I were to ask for tubeless tires before taking the delivery with the regular bridgestones?

I was told it'd approx be 500 Rs odd for each of the tires

`Xander
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Old 5th April 2008, 01:45   #58
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can anyone advise .. ?
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Old 6th April 2008, 00:02   #59
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Xandercage,

IMHO, pop over to 2/3 of your local tyre dealers before the big day. Ask them their rates if you drive your new Xeta over directly from the TATA showroom and exchange the stock Bridgestone.
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Old 7th April 2008, 00:08   #60
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itwasntme ..

Thanks, I did exactly that.. Both of them were ready to give me an exchange. Here's their quote

Dealer A: 2750 (all 5 tyres)
Dealer B: 1500 (all 5)

Incidentally dealer A and B are across the same street

I intend to get the tires changed tomorrow (as today was a holiday)

`xander
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