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Old 10th March 2007, 02:43   #1
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Default Tyre Scraping Wheel Arch

Am counting on you all to get some information & help me out here.
I recently got Neo alloys fitted to my 1.2 Palio, I got the Rally version from Neo the rim size is 13" X 5.5". Unfortunately my budget did not allow me to upgrade to tubeless tyres, so I kept the stock Bridgestones on.
I noticed the rear left tyre was scraping the wheel arch with a full load. A noticeable rubber only from that tyre had been shaved off. I got aluminum spacers for the rear suspension & that solved the problem.
But, I really did not want any other modification done to the car's body. Now, my question is "is anyone else facing the same problem with similar brand of alloys & size?" & "what should be the proper tyre upgrade to go for?". I love the trye patterns that Pirelli offers. HELP
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Old 10th March 2007, 03:26   #2
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go for dunlops and use a lower profile that should solve your problem and that could be coz of the weight of the people in the car.If it touches then check your rear shocks and springs out..
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Old 10th March 2007, 03:28   #3
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Hi mb_jg, we would be able to help you out if we know the stock tyre size that you currently have on your Palio. I assume they are 165.

Did you check the PCD of the alloys before you bought them? The PCD should not be more than 98 otherwise you will face an issue with vibrations at high speed. I feel you should have opted for 14" rims since there are better tyre options in that size.

I am contemplating to buy Yokohama ES100's for my Palio but this upgrade is planned for next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroxx View Post
go for dunlops and use a lower profile that should solve your problem and that could be coz of the weight of the people in the car.If it touches then check your rear shocks and springs out..
IIRC his car is brand new so shocks shouldn't be a problem.

Last edited by moralfibre : 10th March 2007 at 03:37.
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Old 10th March 2007, 05:32   #4
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dude
it musnt be coz of overloading your car i have had even more than 3per at my rear but no issue
the stock size is 165 with 80 profile go and show your tyres to some expert i think your tyre has problem and u should change them
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Old 10th March 2007, 05:37   #5
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I am contemplating to buy Yokohama ES100's for my Palio but this upgrade is planned for next year.

hi moral
even i am going to get es100 as u know i really need new tyres but es100 doesnt come on 13r as he said he hasnt upgrade
there are some nice choice in 13r such as michelincertis or energy if i am right
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Old 10th March 2007, 06:05   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb_jg View Post
I got the Rally version from Neo the rim size is 13" X 5.5".
3 questions -
1. Were these rims meant specifically for your car ? ie does it list palio in the compatible cars list for this rim.
2. What is the size of tire you are running?
3. Is that side of your car sagging? (due to suspension etc)

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 10th March 2007 at 06:08.
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Old 10th March 2007, 06:54   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payam View Post
hi moral
even i am going to get es100 as u know i really need new tyres but es100 doesnt come on 13r as he said he hasnt upgrade
there are some nice choice in 13r such as michelincertis or energy if i am right
Payam, What you could do is buy four spare wheel rims of the Palio and use ES100 on them. They are black rims and should serve the purpose until you get enough dough to buy alloy wheels. This would be the cheapest way to switch to ES100's.
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Old 10th March 2007, 07:29   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Payam, What you could do is buy four spare wheel rims of the Palio and use ES100 on them. They are black rims and should serve the purpose until you get enough dough to buy alloy wheels. This would be the cheapest way to switch to ES100's.
i dindt get u u mean magwheels are black or the inside rims only and are they 14r because i am gonig to upsize them to 14r
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Old 10th March 2007, 08:18   #9
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If you're using the stock tyres with the new alloys, and the tyre started rubbing the body after the new alloys were fitted, I think the new alloys must have an offset value higher than the stock rims. Otherwise the tyres shouldn't rub at all.

For eg: if the stock wheel was like this:


The new wheel could be somewhat like this:


Because there is more offset (towards the outside), the alloys must be sticking outward (i.e. "out-set"?) toward the lips of the wheel arches more than the stock rims. And the outer shoulder of the tyre must be rubbing against the arches. This effect would be similar to having got spacers installed on the car.

Last edited by Rehaan : 10th March 2007 at 09:47. Reason: please dont post images from other sites, (they dont work) transfer them to imageshack first.
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Old 10th March 2007, 09:46   #10
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The alloy offset is wrong for your Palio as explained by Hydra above...
Your wheels must be looking something like this protruding outside the wheel arches...


to solve this either get the alloys changed or install spacers.......
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Old 10th March 2007, 12:06   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb_jg View Post
Am counting on you all to get some information & help me out here.
I recently got Neo alloys fitted to my 1.2 Palio, I got the Rally version from Neo the rim size is 13" X 5.5". Unfortunately my budget did not allow me to upgrade to tubeless tyres, so I kept the stock Bridgestones on.
I noticed the rear left tyre was scraping the wheel arch with a full load.
The specs of your alloy wheel (Rally) are available at:

Neo Wheels India

Note two important values there, namely, Offset=+36 mm and Backspacing=116 mm. The first thing you need to do is get a clear idea of what both of these mean. The wheel offset is the distance of the mounting face on the wheel to the centre line of the wheel. The backspacing is the distance of the mounting face of the wheel to the inner edge of the wheel (i.e., the edge close to the suspension components).

In short your wheel goes in 116 mm from the mounting face towards the suspension parts; the greater the backspacing, the lesser the clearance of your wheel from the suspension components.

Let us stay your stock wheel is 13" X 5J with an offset of 46 mm. This is a typically high offset for FWDs; very few cars have a higher offset. In this case, your backspacing is approximately half the rim width plus the offset, which works out to roughly 109.5 mm; you need to add about 10 mm to this figure, so you get a stock backspacing of 118.5 mm. So it looks like your backspacing matches the stock backspacing, assuming the stock specs noted above, so your clearance from the suspension components is OK.

Assuming the above specs, your wheel will protrude out by an extra quarter inch plus the difference in offset, i.e., by about 16 mm. So to cancel this effect, you need to choose a 5.5 " wheel with a *higher* offset (note: not lower). If your new choice has an offset of 52 mm (i.e., 16 mm greater than that of Rally) then it will be exactly at the same distance from the wheel arch as the stock wheel and there will be no fouling with the wheel arch. But your backspacing will increase by at least 16 mm, meaning that your clearance from the suspension components will come down by that much. You need to be sure that this is OK, otherwise there may be fouling with the suspension components when your tyre flexes or when you turn your car, etc.

Typically, when a rim width is increased, the offset is brought down slightly so that the backspacing is within acceptable levels. In your case you need to check what the stock specs are, how much does your wheel jut out from the wheel arch, how much increase in backspacing your car can accomodate and then decide your new wheel specs (in particular, offset).

In my case I have upgraded from 4J to 5J. The backspacing is the same, so the wheel juts out by 33 mm. No way I can increase the offset from the present 26 mm to 59 mm without fouling with the suspension components. So I have to live with the wheel jutting out. Fortunately the Santro seems to have plenty of clearance from the wheel arch plus a stiff rear suspsension. You may have more options in 5.5 J than I have with 5J.

Last edited by rks : 10th March 2007 at 12:11.
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Old 10th March 2007, 13:47   #12
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Look at typical Fiat wheel specs in the following website:

Alloy wheel fitments and pcd's.

You can see that all the Fiat models mentioned here have PCD of 98 mm and bore dia of 58.1 mm. The typical offset for most of these models apparently range from 35 to 42 mm. There is no case of offset exceeding 42 mm. This might well hold for later models like Palio, not mentioned here (I think Palio does have PCD 98 mm as mentioned by others).

So it looks like you do not have much scope for increasing the offset from your present 36 mm, which seems to be a correct choice. If you increase the offset way above the stock, your car's steering response and handling may get badly affected, apart from the problem with backspacing that I mentioned. You may be able to increase offset atmost by about 10 mm from your present 36 mm. If this doesn't work, you have to try something else. But first try to get the correct specs for your model of Palio 1.2.

The other point I want to mention is that the bore dia is also very important. If the bore dia is too less, then your wheel will not fit. But if it is excessive, all the load will fall on the studs, stressing them plus causing vibrations. In my case PCD and bore dia seem to be an exact match; the offset of my alloy is 26 mm, which is less by 20 mm than the stock figure of 46 mm. This is too much; ideally I should have kept this difference down to 10-15 mm or less, according to what I gather from the internet discussions.
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Old 10th March 2007, 15:10   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
The alloy offset is wrong for your Palio as explained by Hydra above...
Your wheels must be looking something like this protruding outside the wheel arches...


to solve this either get the alloys changed or install spacers.......
@ mb_jg - i have the same issue with my car (in the pic).
because of the offset, the alloys touch the wheel arches so i got spacers installed in the rear suspension, so that solved the problem.
buttt the front wheel`s still scrape the arches (no spacers) so am gonna change the rims soon. The right thing to do is first try to get them replaced but that depends on the dealer (when i went back to the guys shop after just a WEEK he said he will replace them but will deduct rs 3500 from the total value ) or install spacers (both front and back) but then the handling will suffer...

Last edited by faithless_1984 : 10th March 2007 at 15:14.
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Old 10th March 2007, 20:51   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb_jg View Post
Am counting on you all to get some information & help me out here.
I recently got Neo alloys fitted to my 1.2 Palio, I got the Rally version from Neo the rim size is 13" X 5.5". Unfortunately my budget did not allow me to upgrade to tubeless tyres, so I kept the stock Bridgestones on.
I noticed the rear left tyre was scraping the wheel arch with a full load. A noticeable rubber only from that tyre had been shaved off.
MB - As you can notice I highlighted a portion of your post above, that is because if only the left rear tyre is fouling & causing the problem then it is more or less likely to be a suspension issue. If it was related to the offset of the tyres then logically both the rear tyres should have been scraping with the arches. Did the right rear ever have a fouling issue at all?

I would recommend that you get your suspension thoroughly checked up from an authorised garage or a specialist & see whether the Left-rear shocker or any other component has a problem. And if by installing the spacers your problem has gone away then why worry about it?
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Old 10th March 2007, 22:03   #15
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yup rightly pointed by Iraghava. If only the left then get the suspension checked.

the only other factor to rule out the suspension is, if when you loaded the car the guys on the left were heavier on the right thereby only the left one touching.

@faithless, lol you planning on changing your alloys?? Is rags coming with you this time as well to help you select the wheels?
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