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Old 28th April 2007, 23:59   #1
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Default Zen with Alloys swirls

Hello Guys,
This is my 1st post to this forum. I am Nitin live in Bangalore and own a ZEN mpfi. I did a lot of research on upsizing and alloy wheels from this forum was really helpfull. I decided not to go for upsizing becos of bangalore road and bought a set of 12" Neo alloy wheels for my Zen. Looks awesome.But when i was driving it at above 80 kmph the car was swirling sideways a bit. Also I noticed that the all the four tyres are jutting out of the car by about an inch. Is this natural or do I need to check something
please help guys

TIA,
Nitin
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Old 29th April 2007, 05:41   #2
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can you please define what you mean by "swirling".do you mean wandering.?
well if the rims are jutting out by an inch,i suppose you have bought rims which have a negative offset and will protrude from the wheel arches.
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Old 29th April 2007, 08:59   #3
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revhappy, exchange your alloys for the right size right now. Did you not notice the -ve offset when you changed the rims ?
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Old 29th April 2007, 13:19   #4
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i know what me means by 'swirling'...at certain speed say 80s when u drive over little rough patch or say over the uplifted zebra markings or on a concrete road with little gravel/tar spots over it, the car tends to move haywards even when the sterring is still and hold firmly....
even i'm facing this problem due to the alloys and have done rotation+balancing once, but invain....i guess therez someoffset in my case too...no way i can exchange the alloys now...experts pls suggest some tech solution
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Old 29th April 2007, 19:19   #5
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Hello Guys,
Zakaaaas is rite thats exactly wat I meant by swirl.I just checked the Neo wheels website, its an indian mfr and the wheel I bought is recommended for Zen,alto,800 and Maruti van. The size is 12x4.5 inches and offset is 32mm. I dont think its -ve offset, but not sure though.
Neo Wheels India
The model name is "Bullet".
Kindly let me know if this alloy is fine for my zen, or do I need to replace it.
please advise.
TIA,
Nitin
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Old 2nd May 2007, 10:51   #6
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yep nitin, i too had seen the specs on NEO webpage before buying, still the problem persists.

wheel experts@ pl suggest some solution
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Old 2nd May 2007, 18:53   #7
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@revhappy, I am assuming that the stock Zen wheel is 4J X 12" and has PCD=114.3 mm and Offset=45 mm (offset is just a guess). Your wheel is 4.5J, same PCD (?) and with a lower offset of about 13 mm, which means that your wheel would just out by around 1/4"+13mm ~ 20 mm. Which is fine as long as there is no fouling.

I have fitted a 26 mm offset wheel (Neo Star SM) which is 5J X 13 " (as compared to 4J for stock with offset of 46 mm) and my wheels, which jut out more than yours, seem to work brilliantly (with stock-size tubeless tyres), even at speeds of 150+ kmph. But as the carbibles website points out, whether a given set of specifications will work on a particular car greatly depends on that car's suspension and steering set-up. One possbility is that Zen will not tolerate such a low offset as 32 mm, whereas my Santro apparently will. Do you have power steering? If not it is possible that you need to have a higher offset (say, ~40 mm) in order to get a better steering response. But somehow my gut feeling is that your offset is OK as it is.

You have not said anything about your tyres. They could well be the reason for your problems. Are you running stock size tyres and what pressures do you maintain? It is important to set tyre pressures accurately and evenly on all four tyres. I am assuming that your wheel alignment/balancing is fine. With the relatively narrow rims and stock tyres, it is natural for a light car like Zen or Santro to be less stable while going over bumpy stretches; even I had the problem of my Santro tending to be unpredictable under these conditions. In fact if I braked while going fast over small series of bumps around a corner, the car would pull to one side and the rear wheels show a tendency to slide. But with wider 5" alloy wheels (and stock tyres) my car is actually more stable over bumpy stretches.

I personally do not think that there is a very serious problem in your case; but if you are worried about the car's stability on bumpy stretches, you can try upgrading to wider tyres (assuming you are running stock tyres right now). There is plenty of help available in this forum on what tyre sizes may be appropriate for your wheels.
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Old 2nd May 2007, 19:11   #8
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rks..!!!

Stock zen wheels have offset 40...

Last edited by kpzen : 2nd May 2007 at 19:13.
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Old 2nd May 2007, 19:24   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
rks..!!!

Stock zen wheels have offset 40...
In that case, it seems that the offset of 32 mm in revhappy's alloys is within limits. We need to know more about his tyres, including the brand, size and present status (kms done, tread depth left, any damage).
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Old 2nd May 2007, 22:05   #10
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Hi RKS,
Thanks for the much needed info. I have the same stock tyres, goodyear 145/80R12. the car has done some 27k kms so thot theres still around half of its life left, so didnt bother to change them. There doesnt seem to be any abnormal damage to the tyres just the normal wearing off.The air pressure I generally maintain is 30 becos otherwise chance of the car's bottom scraping is high. The car has power steering.
One thing I have noticed is after putting the alloys the power steering has become extra extra smooth and earlier the power steering used to firm up nicely as the speed increased, but now I feel that the firming up is delayed and not as linear as it used to be. This was not at all the case earlier. Is this becos of the higher tyre pressure,combined with the lighter alloys. I think I shud try using 28 psi.
Also while changing to the alloys the garage did wheel balancing and played arround with the steering wheel by opening it. Is it possible that they kind of loosened it or something, becos the power steering has become too smooth for comfort.
Will be eagerly waiting for valuable suggestions.
TIA,
Revhappy
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Old 2nd May 2007, 22:16   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revhappy View Post
The air pressure I generally maintain is 30 becos otherwise chance of the car's bottom scraping is high.
TIA,
Revhappy
The recommended air pressure for zen with 145/80-12 is 24 psi...why are u running with such high psi??? Your ride quality must be hard n steering should be extra light at the moment with 30psi
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Old 2nd May 2007, 22:42   #12
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dude do one thing change u r stock tyers upgrade them.....
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Old 2nd May 2007, 23:00   #13
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@Revhappy, the garage probably re-aligned your steering wheel so that it is in the right position when the wheels are pointing straight. This is a minor job usually done after wheel alignment, and is perfectly all right; it will not affect your steering.

As kpzen noted, your tyre pressures are probably too high at 30 psi for the stock tubed tyres, considering that the recommended pressure is 24 psi. As you point out, after shifting to lighter alloys, your steering has become lighter and more responsive, so you need to reduce tyre pressures if you stick to stock tubed tyres. Increasing offset of the wheels will worsen this problem, so that is not the issue here.

The logical thing for you to do right now would be to upgrade to grippier tubeless tyres. If you upgrade to 155/75 R12 tubeless tyres, it would be the perfect upsize for your Zen and will definitely tighten up your steering as well. Plus it would make your car more stable to fast cornering or over bumpy/potholed stretches. You can probably afford to run higher pressures in this case (say 29 psi) because the grip of the tyres would already have increased considerably, making your steering more stable; plus tubeless tyres are softer, so the ride will not be as harsh.

An alternative is to change to stock-size 145/80 R 12 tubeless tyres. If you go for a performance brand like Bridgestone Turanza ER-60, there will be a considerable increase in grip even with stock-size tubeless tyres (as compared to stock tubed tyres) and you can again afford to run higher pressures.

Which of these two choices you go for depends on your personal preference and driving style. The 145 size tyres will probably give less grip than the 155 size, but the handling may be better at higher speeds. You could also consider 165 mm width, but I would not prefer this. Do not go for higher width than 165 mm in any case since you have 4.5J alloys.

Last edited by rks : 2nd May 2007 at 23:10.
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Old 3rd May 2007, 02:49   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rks View Post

The logical thing for you to do right now would be to upgrade to grippier tubeless tyres. If you upgrade to 155/75 R12 tubeless tyres, it would be the perfect upsize for your Zen and will definitely tighten up your steering as well.
.
155/75r12 tyres are not available as this size isnt manufctured.the perfect upsize would be 155/65r13.else you could go for 155/70r13 on 5J rims.
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Old 3rd May 2007, 10:19   #15
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rks@ need ur valuable inputs for mycase.

Its for Matiz. as mentioned earlier, me 2 facing swirling issue.

Alloys: Neo Dozen BM 13" 5.5J
Tyres: 145/70/R13 Bridgestone Turanza ER60.
Air pressure: 32psi (Deawoo recommened on the sticker put on front door)



Tyres were bought & fitted at the same time as that of alloys. Done around 7K after fitting. Tyre condition is immaculate tilldate. Alignment and balancing was done after fittting. Also I did rotation+balalcing last month.
And yes the wheels pop out a little more than stock wheels..
u can see this here.

what could be the problm for swirling? How do I eliminate it?
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