Tube-type to Tubeless conversion?!

[tsk1979]

Somebody recently told me that he converted the tube-type tires of his safari to Tubeless.
Not exchange, but conversion after paying 500rs for all 5 tyres.
At first I was skeptical, but more enquiry revealed that tire dealers have some kit from UK which does the trick.
I did some googling and found this.
| Freeborn.co.uk | Shop | Accessories | Stans Notubes Tubeless Conversion Kit |
I do not know which kit is he using but I have seen the vehicle myself(a safari) and though the tyre sidewall says Bridgestone Tube-type, there is no tube inside. Conversion cost was 100rs/tire.
So it works, and its working for 20,000+kms now.
The question is, is this kind of conversion safe??
I was very very skeptical whether this will work or not, but as they say "Seeing is believing!".
I am not sure about safety though.

[rks]

Would be interesting to know what Bridgestone or other tyre manufacturers have to say about this. If they authorize this conversion, it is definitely a boon. Would the speed/load rating of these tyres be affected? How about the life of the sidewalls, which will take more stress once the tubes are removed?

[nitrous]

He must be using the tube type tyre with tubeless valves.

[esteem_lover]

The 100 bucks just went for the tubeless valves. i am not sure this is a good idea at all.

[Rtech]

Thing is, the construction of a tube type tyre is different that that of a tubeless tyre. While you could run a tube in a tubeless, it is not recommended, and probably illegal in some countries, for a dealer to let his customer run a tube-type tyre as tubeless.

However, I think we can only speculate as to what the real safety hazards might be. Any info given on a tyre manufacturers website will be very politically correct for obvious legal reasons. The same reasons why they recommend replacing a tyre incase of a puncture.

[iraghava]

Well I don't think you need a kit for it Tanveer, to make a tube-type tyre into a tubeless oen all you need to do is remove the tube & change the valve of the tyre to a tubeless one. To make a tubeless into a tube tyre the opposite is needed.

However, there are some differences in both types of tyres, more specifically in the design of the tyre beads which in tubeless tyres ensures a proper fit with the rim & no air leak since there is no tube whereas, this job is done by the tube in the tube type tyres. This is also the reason that at times with older steel rims some people face a problem as the rim bends thereby creating an avenue for the air to leak out.

I have never used a tube type tyre as a tubeless one (even though I have had a couple of tubeless tyres running in spare with a tube in them without any problems) but for the aspect of safety wouldn't recommend doing that.

[Rtech]

Well I don't think you need a kit for it Tanveer, to make a tube-type tyre into a tubeless oen all you need to do is remove the tube & change the valve of the tyre to a tubeless one. To make a tubeless into a tube tyre the opposite is needed.

Its not as simple as that. A tubeless tyre has its beading and sidewall constructed to act as the seal between the wheel and the tyre. Thats the POP you hear when inflating a new tubless tyre onto the wheel.

A tyre constructed to be used with a tube would not have had this design criteria in mind. Yes, it may seal. But will that seal hold good in all conditions and all speeds? Obviously it was not designed for that.

I'd say if it does, the person has got off lucky. I will certainly not want to conduct this experiment on the open road with my family and friends in the car. And I will also not recommend that to anyone on or off this forum.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

have seen some guys riding on tubeless tyres with tubes inside them.

And they later convert their tyres to tubeless by buying the neck valves. Dont know why they didnt run tubeless first up!

[rks]

Originally Posted by Rtech

Its not as simple as that. A tubeless tyre has its beading and sidewall constructed to act as the seal between the wheel and the tyre. Thats the POP you hear when inflating a new tubless tyre onto the wheel.

A tyre constructed to be used with a tube would not have had this design criteria in mind. Yes, it may seal. But will that seal hold good in all conditions and all speeds? Obviously it was not designed for that.

It looks like the modification would work even if the bead lock seal is broken. Quoting from the cited website:

Stan's Tubeless System offers two sealing points on the tyre versus other tubeless systems which use only the bead lock as their sealing point. First the bead lock is sealed, as well as the lower portion of the tyre and rim to create a second inner seal. This unique design allows you to break the bead lock seal without losing air pressure. Secondly, the inner seal flexes inwards with the tire to maintain air pressure.

Apparently this is a patented process.

But the question in my mind is regarding the high-speed handling of the converted tyres, especially while cornering hard. Tubetype tyre sidewalls will flex a lot more than those of tubeless tyres because the pressure is held inside the tubes. Once the tubes are removed, the tyre sidewalls have to be more rigid and presumably take more of the load from the sideways forces that would occur during high-speed cornering. The question is whether there is sufficient margin in the design of tubetype tyres for the conversion to go through in general (as opposed to a few specific cases).

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by Rtech

Its not as simple as that.

I know that Robin, that's why I already posted this in my post. Please see below:

Originally Posted by iraghava

However, there are some differences in both types of tyres, more specifically in the design of the tyre beads which in tubeless tyres ensures a proper fit with the rim & no air leak since there is no tube whereas, this job is done by the tube in the tube type tyres. This is also the reason that at times with older steel rims some people face a problem as the rim bends thereby creating an avenue for the air to leak out.

I have never used a tube type tyre as a tubeless one (even though I have had a couple of tubeless tyres running in spare with a tube in them without any problems) but for the aspect of safety wouldn't recommend doing that.

[Rtech]

Originally Posted by iraghava

I know that Robin, that's why I already posted this in my post. Please see below:

You edited your post after I read it and while I was replying to it. Anyways...

[Jaggu]

WOULDN'T RECOMMEND THE BELOW

lol i have my spare which is tubed but converted to tubeless.

When i bought the non directional spare after the first Ventura tore, the tyre wallah asked me if i wanted to keep the tube separate? for use in case of any emergency with the other 4 venturas.

So i agreed and put the MRF on my OE rim with the tubeless tyre valve and kept it as spare tyre (anyway it is going to be used as a spare coz of thread difference), while the tube is in my dicky for emergency use.

Funny part the MRF hold PSI better compared to Venturas, yup i havent used the spare yet (TOUCH WOOD)

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by Rtech

You edited your post after I read it and while I was replying to it. Anyways...

Aaahh, sorry about that I was typing in the quick post window & instead of clicking on the "Go Advanced" button accidentally clicked on the "Post Quick Reply" button. So, I had to again edit the post to complete it.

[tsk1979]

Hmm, its not just the valve, they also did some "rim setting". Could not find out the details.
The tires retain pressure pretty good, and have run for 20000kms+.
Lots of highway driving, and its a safari.
Jaggu, what all changes were made for your conversion?

I am curious to know about safety implications. Could not find anything on google, and info from manufacturers will never be reliable due to legal reasons.

[Jaggu]

zilch mods whatsoever, this is the biggest MRF dealer in JC Road, i asked him if it will work, he said dont worry it will.

OE rim, OE JK tyre - tubeless valve and MRF Zigma VTS 195 70 14 Tyres.