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Old 10th August 2007, 01:39   #31
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What absolute bollocks. That tyre dealer doesn't have a bloody clue as to what he's talking. By telling us that tubeless tyres get damaged is he trying to say that tubed tyres don't get damaged on our country? Nonsense, I have run atleast a dozen sets of both Tubed & Tubeless tyres on my cars & have faced failures with both. Moreover, putting a tube in a tubeless tyre with a sidewall cut is more dangerous than he can ever imagine. The tube will hold up the air pressure but once after repeated use the cut splits the sidewall the owner will have a nice moment during which he'll realise what a fool he was to run repaired tyres. Don't ask how I know, a decade back I nearly paid a very hefty price for doing the exact same thing & ignoring the cut on the sidewall.

Here are some advantages of tubeless tyres vis-a-vis tubed tyres:

1. Slow deflation in case of a puncture minimises the risk of loss of control of the vehicle especially in high-speed conditions. Anyone who's had an incident with a tubed tyre rapidly deflating while the car was at a high speed will know what I'm talking about.

2. Lesser punctures as in tube tyres most punctures leads to immediate deflation whereas in tubeless tyres the nails etc. in most occassions act as a plug leading to fewer punctures.

3. No tube in tubeless tyres leads to absence of replacement cost of tube in case of the tube getting punctures repeatedly.

4. Slow deflation has a very important advantage that most people don't know, if you can visibly spot the pressure reducing and do not have an opportunity to replace the tyre (location, weather etc.) then all you have to do is get the tyre inflated back to normal pressure at any nearby air point & continue driving. With regular checks this trick can help you reach your destination without having to go through the pain of changing your punctured tyre.

5. All those who do regular highway runs at odd times will realise the convenience that these tyres give us, I've been very happy personally as I don't have to stop in the middle of nowhere to change tyres at odd times. The tubelesses that way also contribute to your safety on the road.

6. Nowadays their use is so widespread that in almost every decent town you can find a tyre shop which repairs tubeless tyres & if not you have two options to deal with that problem:

a. Carry a tubeless repair kit & repair the tyre yourself or have it done under your instructions by the local tyre wallah.

OR

b. Simply carry a spre tube in your car & ask any roadside tyre wallah to insert the tube into the tyre after removing the nail from it & filling it up. This arrangement works just fine & you can have the tyre repaired & tube removed when you reach your destination.

Lastly, if this was not such a beneficial technology rest assured the companies & consumers would have discarded it long ago & not contributed to its development. Which as we know is not the case internationally.

There have been some instances in which tyres with very soft sidewalls have failed in Indian conditions but I think these instances are now no longer common. Companies are constantly improving & developing their products & I personally believe that within a few years tubeless tyres will be selling in huge majority numbers in our market.
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Old 10th August 2007, 02:07   #32
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Ishaan couldn't agree any better mate . Good write up.
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Old 10th August 2007, 03:15   #33
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Makes me wonder, when this particular dealer has this opinion after so many years of tubeless introduction in India, what will he say to Runflats when they become common!
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Old 10th August 2007, 09:51   #34
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Great inputs iraghava, makes us more confident of Tubless tech.

1. I also heard, as tubeless tyres are lighter than tubed tyres FE improves in case of tubeless tyres.
2. Static and dynamic unbalance is less in case of tubeless tyres thus offers a smoother ride even at high speeds.
3. In case of the tubeless tyres the air inside the tyre is in direct contact with rims means faster heat dissipiation resulting in cooler running of the tyre. Cooler running leads to longer and trouble free tyres life.


Happy and safe motoring.
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Old 11th August 2007, 08:48   #35
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Agree, mostly with what iraghava says, but a couple of points...

You still get flat tires with tubeless. Not all punctures are slow, and we are not all good at regular pressure checks. At least once I've ruined a flat tyre by driving on it for a few miles. A flat rear tire can easily go unnoticed. Often it is another driver that points it out.

Blowouts can happen. Just as disastrous with tubeless.

There's all sorts of stuff that can go wrong with a tubeless. I don't even begin to understand the technology, but working in the IT depart for an insurer that insured one of the world's biggest manufacturers, I was aware of some of the claims going through.

Mend you own tubeless? I'm sure nothing is impossible, but you need special equipment to separate the tire from the wheel, and I think they use higher pressure to establish the seal. Finding the leak first takes rather a big bucket of water!

Only simple punctures are safe to repair. The shops should know what they are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do. Here, I would expect some pretty dangerous repairs could be made.
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Old 11th August 2007, 09:58   #36
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Tubeless saved my life... mumbais roads are known to have sharp stones, glass pieces and screws, pins on the roads. generally we tend to overtake from the extreme left in extreme slow traffic...thats where these sharps are always...

On my recent trip to Pune from Mumbai via the express highway in my city zx i was dong an easy 110 kmph...when i reached pune, i decided to refuel and check tyre pressure.

Thats when this guy informed me hat there seems to be a leak in the rear tyre...although the tyre was not deflated at all.

On checking the tyre a 4 inch bolt was jammed into the rubber and causing a very slow leak.

Imagine if this was a tube tyre...it would have probably burst on the highway....lucky me..thanks to my tubeless, i walked out a wiser man.
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Old 11th August 2007, 21:49   #37
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What about run flat tyres? Are they available here? How much do they cost?
I know they must cost a bomb, but does anyone have them here?
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Old 11th August 2007, 22:42   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidvai View Post
What about run flat tyres? Are they available here? How much do they cost?
I know they must cost a bomb, but does anyone have them here?

they are only available on a few cars like bmws. i dont think any company sells them in india.
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Old 12th August 2007, 00:05   #39
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Well, a cousin of mine had them in his acura in the US and another had them in his Lexus. I think they have really revolutionized the way the wheel spins. What say?
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Old 12th August 2007, 01:33   #40
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Isn't that called re-inventing the wheel?

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Old 12th August 2007, 03:25   #41
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^^Well, tyres are essentially a part of the spinning of the wheel..hehe..lame i know.
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Old 12th August 2007, 11:35   #42
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vidvai don't know if run flats are the next step forward cause the runflats have their share of problems[true or false have absolutely no idea],first and foremost is the fact that it is said run-flats affect ride -quality,exorbitant cost of these tyres, then comes the repairing problem and maybe some other problems as well.

Perhaps a few years down the line these problems could be solved.

Last edited by rahul_intlad : 12th August 2007 at 11:36.
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Old 12th August 2007, 11:42   #43
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A spinning wheel has quite a lot to do with revolutions anyway!

ok, ok... offtopic...

But what about the aerosol that fills the tire and contains some stuff that seals small leaks. Gets you home at least. (of course, so does fitting the spare!)

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 12th August 2007 at 11:43.
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Old 12th August 2007, 11:58   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit27 View Post
On my new Indica Turbo I wanted to fit tubeless tyres indica comes with stock 165/65/14 tyres I am looking for 175/65/14 tubeless tyres . Dealer is telling me that tubeless are effective only with Alloy wheels How to go about this ?

Dealer is trying to con you my friend..A good set of steel rims can run TL tyres as well as alloys..

TL tyres are miles ahead of Tubed ones..have been using TL tires past 7-8 years and no issues..

Once..i had a full flat at a customer location..Went to the nearest petrol station filled air - drove for the next 40 kms before i reached my tyre guy and patched the punture..tyre pressure dropped from 35 to 29..over 1.5 hours in city traffic conditions..

TL rocks anyday..
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Old 12th August 2007, 12:18   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
You still get flat tires with tubeless. Not all punctures are slow, and we are not all good at regular pressure checks. At least once I've ruined a flat tyre by driving on it for a few miles. A flat rear tire can easily go unnoticed. Often it is another driver that points it out.
Agreed there will always be punctures on any tyres that you fit that is why i've also given repair solutions in my earlier post. And punctures with fast air leakage are rare in tubeless tyres unless you manage to bust a sidewall or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Blowouts can happen. Just as disastrous with tubeless.
Yes, consequences are going to be equally disastrous but the chances of blowouts happening in Tubeless's is again low due to their inherent property of slow deflation whereas a Tubed tyre will in 99.9% cases deflate almost immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Mend you own tubeless? I'm sure nothing is impossible, but you need special equipment to separate the tire from the wheel, and I think they use higher pressure to establish the seal. Finding the leak first takes rather a big bucket of water!
Thad, actually tubeless tyres can be repaired without separating them from the wheel! There are DIY kits which are easy to use and can be handy if you have a deflated tyre at odd times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Only simple punctures are safe to repair. The shops should know what they are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do. Here, I would expect some pretty dangerous repairs could be made.
All kinds of repairs are game here, even tyres with busted sidewalls are repaired & labelled safe for use. And don't even get me started about cheap re-treading and what kinds of tyres are used in commercial vehicles. Let's just say that quite a few accidents in India happen due to people not paying enough importance to their vehicle's tyres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidvai View Post
What about run flat tyres? Are they available here? How much do they cost?
I know they must cost a bomb, but does anyone have them here?
They are very expensive, hard to procure & of course, are use & throw only. You cannot repair them if you have a puncture, you need to fit a new tyre. Which while is acceptable in Europe/US etc but doesn't work the same way in our country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahul_intlad View Post
vidvai don't know if run flats are the next step forward cause the runflats have their share of problems[true or false have absolutely no idea],first and foremost is the fact that it is said run-flats affect ride -quality,exorbitant cost of these tyres, then comes the repairing problem and maybe some other problems as well.

Perhaps a few years down the line these problems could be solved.
Yup, run-flats have an inherent problem with ride quality because of their strengthened sidewalls which give them the run-flat capability. BMW has been getting a lot of flak in International press for continuing to use them but they are improving rapidly and already the second-gen run flats are behaving better than the earlier ones. I think within a few years they'll be very close to matching the standards set by non-run flat tyres.

Of course, for sheer ability nothing matches the good old Tubeless tyres, for proof look at BMW's own M-divison which refuses to use Runflats on its high-performance models due to them being "not good enough"!!
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