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Old 22nd August 2011, 23:47   #106
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

One of my relatives also had a tubeless tyre BLOWOUT on a Tata Safari. And same thing happened to him also, the tyre went out of the rim and they ended up in paying 1 Lac for the repair of the damages done on the vehicle.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 03:25   #107
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

IMO, in any case, tubeless tyres are much more safer than tubed tyres. A knife upon a tubed tyre will have similar safety issues, like on a tubeless tyre.

The benefits of a tubeless tyres are many, and the only benefit of tubed tyres I see today is that, they can be mount on even bent rims, which in itself is unsafe.

Low operating temperature are slow deflation whist puncture are enough safety reasons to go for a tubeless tyre.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 05:45   #108
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

If the situation is similar then i guess a tubed tyre would also blow out in similar fashion. In all the other cases a tubeless would be much safer. Although it has never happened to myself of anyone whom i know at higher speed, but at slow speed it has happened to me twice where the tyre had huge cut and lost pressure immediatly and had to be changed.

The first time it happened in tubed tyre in Indica and it lost pressure immediately, unlike the mention in the post that the tube will carry on for sometime, although the tyre never came off the rim as the speed was not very high.

Second time it happened in my Baleno on a rainy night while taking a 3 point turn i couldn't see a cement ditch. Front wheels went in and came out of the ditch with a thud and instantly the tyre lost pressure. Had to stop and change wheels. Next day at tyre repair shop we saw a large cut which meant the tyre needed to be changed.

So two tyres in two different instances and same result.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 08:00   #109
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

I suspect your friend was driving a much more than 100-120 kmph. Tyre failure chances peak above 140, especially in a hot climate like Pondicherry's.

I am not a tyre expert but it seems to me that tubed tyres would have an equal chance of failing as tubeless.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 08:00   #110
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
IMO, in any case, tubeless tyres are much more safer than tubed tyres. A knife upon a tubed tyre will have similar safety issues, like on a tubeless tyre.
Good point Dhanushs, a knife was just a guess as my cousin was still not sure what had caused the puncture.
But going by what I am seeing owing to combination of pressure built and JK vectra I guess even some nail could have caused this blast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
The first time it happened in tubed tyre in Indica and it lost pressure immediately, unlike the mention in the post that the tube will carry on for

Second time it happened in my Baleno ..
Thanks a good example Mayankjha, but I am guessing in the Baleno you were not doing top speeds are you sure the situation would have been the same if you were in 120s?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 11:42   #111
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

If the tyre gets punctured on the surface side, air will come out slowly, but if the puncture is on the side walls, then the leakage cant be controlled. I guess this situation makes the tubeless tyre more risky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
One of my relatives also had a tubeless tyre BLOWOUT on a Tata Safari. And same thing happened to him also, the tyre went out of the rim and they ended up in paying 1 Lac for the repair of the damages done on the vehicle.
I am wondering if insurance can be claimed in such situations.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 13:53   #112
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Does having puncture sealant help in avoiding situations like this or they create greater damage?

I guess it is important to check for tyre cracks when embarking on long drives or drives where you hit great speeds.

However I am more confident driving on tubeless tyres when compared to tube tyres. The only reason being in last 6 years my experience with tubeless tyres is just 2 punctures and before that in had numerous punctures using tube tyres in a span of 2 years before moving on to tubeless tyres.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 14:00   #113
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

I think Tubeless should be definitely safer considering all the safety tests done on them.

However, the OP makes me wonder about the following use case. Imagine that the tyres get into a pothole, and the rim touches the edge of the pothole. This is how Rims get bent. Now, lets compare how a tubed tyre would handle it versus a tubeless one.

The tubed tyre, would still hold the air, only the rim is bent, nothing dangerously bad. However, the tubeless ones would most certainly lose all the pressure in one shot. Isn't it? Or am I wrong?

EDIT: I just went back and re-read the original post, and realised that the car had alloys and that means the chances of a rim bend is much much lower. So, the above question may not be relavant to this particular discussion. Sorry!

Last edited by deep_bang : 23rd August 2011 at 14:02.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 14:28   #114
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post
I think Tubeless should be definitely safer considering all the safety tests done on them.
Now thats exactly why I raised this comment.
According to me all the test would have been done in international conditions,where not much sharp stones, potholes and nails etc are found on the roads.
But in Indian conditions how much are these tyres relevant.

One good point would be this, does anyone have an idea what kind of tyres do the offroading vehicles typically have do they run on tubeles without any issues.
Moreover combine running at 100 kmph in roads with stones popping up suddenly or nails in it. Dont think they would have been tested.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 14:46   #115
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post
However, the tubeless ones would most certainly lose all the pressure in one shot.
Tubeless tyres will not lose pressure in one go. However, if the rim is bent to such an extent that its impossible for a tubeless tyre to hold air even for a short period, then the car will not be driveable, even with tubed tyres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Dont think they would have been tested.
Tubeless tyres have been introduced decades before, and IM SURE, they would have gone through ALL possible situations.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 15:07   #116
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

One has to look at this statistically. One can always think up scenarios where tube may be better than tubeless, though I am unable to think up one in a hurry.

If there is a catastrophic deflation then both are equally bad. I once had a pothole get a tyre on my Accent - Tubed at that on an alloy. Deflation was immediate. On the other hand if you get a puncture due to nail penetration (far more likely) the deflation of a tubeless will be slow and the car will be far more manageable. Unless you let things get really bad, you can (repeatedly) reflate and drive a reasonable distance with it. @dhanushs; as far as I know Michelin came up with the tubeless tyres in the 1950's. When I was first in the UK in the mid 1970's tubeless were the norm. Tube tyres were predominantly used in vehicles with wire wheels.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 15:56   #117
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Well any sudden pressure release due to any reason in either tube type or tube less tyre is dangerous. Key is to keep tyres in healthy condition and always inspect rims, alloys, tyres.

The way tyre in your friend's car blasted was may be due to sidewall puncture or tear. There is no doubt that tubeless tyre is more safer than tube type tyre. In tube type tyre such condition could happen due to normal puncture also.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 17:01   #118
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
He is now a preacher of tube type tyres, after this accident.
I am another preacher and worshipper of tube type tyres but I am afraid most others on TeamBHP are my opposite so I have to be careful in voicing my concerns, or else the mods will eventually kick me out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
Important contributors would be:

1. Which brand of tyres
2. What was the tyre pressure on that day
3. Age of the tyres
Tyre pressure is the devil here.
Pulled this from another post of mine ...

A tyre gains approx 5 psi for every 25 degrees celcius increase in ambient temperature. This is a enough to adversely affect handling, traction and milage!!! That is why it is advised to check air pressure when the tyre is cold (normal temp). An increase by 5 psi later (when hot) is acceptable but not the other way around !!

With Nitrogen you eliminate the remainder 22 % gases that expand more than N2, it makes a difference on highways since there is minimal variation in pressure due to temperature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Absolutely wrong , if the object punctured the tubeless tyre , it would easily cause a catastrophic failure in tubed tyres too .
True, but it matters where it gets punctured or ruptured. On a tubeless the rubber is really soft to reduce the tyre noise and to achieve better traction but inherently prone to damage. See below, the sidewall is the thinnest area of a tubeless. Also, why do you think so many Continental tyres on Mercs and BMWs are getting punctured so often on Indian roads? Read this thread ...

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-headache.html (Continental Tyres are a headache !)




Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
IMO, in any case, tubeless tyres are much more safer than tubed tyres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
There is no doubt that tubeless tyre is more safer than tube type tyre. In tube type tyre such condition could happen due to normal puncture also.
This notion holds true in western / developed countries where the average speed is much higher and a sudden loss of air-pressue can be dangerous and can lead to a pile-up. In India the average speed is not above 80 kmph on highways. Thinks more about how you will fix a puncture in the middle of nowhere. You won't even find a tyrewalla "anna" who can fix a tubeless, especially on state highways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
If the situation is similar then i guess a tubed tyre would also blow out in similar fashion. In all the other cases a tubeless would be much safer.
Again, this has been pulled from another post of mine where I was discussing the hazards of a tubeless

You must have seen road edges protruding with sharp stones that were left exposed or the road edges where layer of tar/concrete is approx. 5 inches thick and is almost vertical (does not taper off like it should). When the left side wheels go off the paved surface you can imagine how the sidewall takes a beating. Also the rim might scrape since they much closer to the ground. When this happens there is either a knee-jerk reaction from the driver (over-steer) or loss of control due to a ruptured tyre. I have seen many accidental cars in scrap yards with a ruptured sidewall.

BTW, a tubeless on a offroader SUV is much better than a tubed tyre. Why?? because the ply rating of the tyre is much higher (thicker sidewalls) but these are much costlier. Whatever I discussed above applies to hatchbacks and sedans that we normally drive.

Last edited by Chewbacca : 23rd August 2011 at 17:04.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 17:06   #119
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Another real life experience . Drove for 5 plus kms with a puncture on front tyre! Just felt slight pulling to one side( front tyre was punctured) but I kept driving in traffic. Tyre ate a 2 inch long 5mm dia nut with bolt!

I use Yoko Geolanders.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 17:49   #120
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
On a tubeless the rubber is really soft to reduce the tyre noise and to achieve better traction but inherently prone to damage.
Its not because tubeless tyres are soft that noise is less. Its because of the tube is inside. Moreover, tyre compound is use specific, and even tubed tyres can have better traction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
See below, the sidewall is the thinnest area of a tubeless.
Umm.. Isnt the sidewall the thinnest area of tubed tyres too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
Thinks more about how you will fix a puncture in the middle of nowhere. You won't even find a tyrewalla "anna" who can fix a tubeless, especially on state highways.
Tubeless tyres dont even need a tyrewalla anna. If you can carry a spare tyre with you, then I'm sure you can carry a DIY tubeless puncture repair kit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Tyre ate a 2 inch long 5mm dia nut with bolt!
Ditto for me too. In my case, it was even making a duk-duk-duk noise, and I was on the verge to tear apart my car to find the noise, only to realise an exact similar spec alien inside my tyre. IIRC, I drove from calicut PVS Ford till Valanchery. No Loss in air pressure, until the time I pulled it out.
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