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Old 23rd August 2011, 19:47   #121
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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Its not because tubeless tyres are soft that noise is less. Its because of the tube is inside.
???

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Umm.. Isnt the sidewall the thinnest area of tubed tyres too?
True, but it is comparatively slimmer than tubed.

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Tubeless tyres dont even need a tyrewalla anna. If you can carry a spare tyre with you, then I'm sure you can carry a DIY tubeless puncture repair kit.
Yeah, even I thought so until real life experience teaches us some weird lessons. More later ... it's worth a new thread. A friend of mine happens to be an insurance claims surveyor and he has loads of pictures and stories to share. That's what made me a non-believer in tubeless.

And taking of real life experiences ... my uncle's Corolla had a ruptured sidewall on both the front tyres when driving through a water logged area of the road. The speed was maybe 40 kmph and hidden beneath the water was a foot wide ditch running across the road, dug up to fix a pipeline.

Another friend with a VW passat could not figure out where to mount the jack to replace the punctured wheel so he kept driving with frequent air refill. Then the valve got damaged and none of the tirewallas enroute had any valves in stock.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 20:41   #122
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

Personally i find tubeless much more safer than tube type. Its very effective on hills.
while hill descent the wheel remains much colder as compared to that with tubes.

i have been using/abusing Bridgestone Turanza for the past 8-9years. In this span i had four punctures combine on all three cars. And you can imagine the rural road conditions of Rajasthan.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 20:55   #123
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Default Re: Are tubeless tyres unsuitable for Indian Roads

I would surely vote for tubeless tyres. Having recently converted to them from tubes tyres, the difference in terms of performance, be it, noise, grip or overall comfort is too obvious to ignore. While sidewall damage is a potential issue, it far outweighs the advantages of a tubeless tyre.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 21:02   #124
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
???



True, but it is comparatively slimmer than tubed.





And taking of real life experiences ... my uncle's Corolla had a ruptured sidewall on both the front tyres when driving through a water logged area of the road. The speed was maybe 40 kmph and hidden beneath the water was a foot wide ditch running across the road, dug up to fix a pipeline.

Another friend with a VW passat could not figure out where to mount the jack to replace the punctured wheel so he kept driving with frequent air refill. Then the valve got damaged and none of the tirewallas enroute had any valves in stock.
Tube type tires would have meant both the Passat and Toyota drivers would have had a punctured tube and hence the cars would have been undriveable.

I dont see any point in continuing this thread anymore .This would have made sense in the 90's when tubeless tires were newly launched
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Old 23rd August 2011, 21:17   #125
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
Its very effective on hills.
while hill descent the wheel remains much colder as compared to that with tubes.
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Originally Posted by speedsatya View Post
Tube type tires would have meant both the Passat and Toyota drivers would have had a punctured tube and hence the cars would have been undriveable.

I dont see any point in continuing this thread anymore .This would have made sense in the 90's when tubeless tires were newly launched
I cannot imagine today's cars clad with tubed tyres. My reply was in context to the topic of the new thread prior to being moved and merged here.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 21:42   #126
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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True, but it matters where it gets punctured or ruptured. On a tubeless the rubber is really soft to reduce the tyre noise and to achieve better traction but inherently prone to damage. See below, the sidewall is the thinnest area of a tubeless. Also, why do you think so many Continental tyres on Mercs and BMWs are getting punctured so often on Indian roads?
The rubber being soft or hard has nothing to do with a tyre being radial or not . Sidewall of any tyre is the thinnest area ! Your line of arguement is factually incorrect . BMWs run on run-flat tyres so I doubt you would ever find one punctured and stranded on the road - they get discarded when punctured so most of the times they are insured .
There is a thread on tyres, maybe you could consult it to understand how tyre specs lay bare quite a few details.

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This notion holds true in western / developed countries where the average speed is much higher and a sudden loss of air-pressue can be dangerous and can lead to a pile-up. In India the average speed is not above 80 kmph on highways. Thinks more about how you will fix a puncture in the middle of nowhere. You won't even find a tyrewalla "anna" who can fix a tubeless, especially on state highways.
A tubeless radial costs the same as tube + tyre so why shouldn't one go for a much safer and better option !
I have driven around to enough and more semi-urban/semi-rural places in India and have never faced any problem finding a tyrewalla to repair a tubeless radial - the DIY kit is fairly simple non fussy to use and its not such a "luxury" item for tyrewallas to stock
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Old 23rd August 2011, 23:15   #127
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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Sidewall of any tyre is the thinnest area ! Your line of arguement is factually incorrect . BMWs run on run-flat tyres so I doubt you would ever find one punctured and stranded on the road - they get discarded when punctured so most of the times they are insured .
There is a thread on tyres, maybe you could consult it to understand how tyre specs lay bare quite a few details.
Next time you visit a tyre shop, compare a radial tubed tyre with a similar sized tubeless. Feel the sidewall thru the open end. Then try pushing the sidewall inside with your thumb. This will give you an idea of what I meant by "thinner" and "softer"

As regards BMWs and Mercs I simply pointed to the link (below) that describes the problems caused by the super soft Continental tubeless tyres.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-headache.html (Continental Tyres are a headache !)

Last edited by Chewbacca : 23rd August 2011 at 23:17.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 23:38   #128
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
Next time you visit a tyre shop, compare a radial tubed tyre with a similar sized tubeless. Feel the sidewall thru the open end. Then try pushing the sidewall inside with your thumb. This will give you an idea of what I meant by "thinner" and "softer"

As regards BMWs and Mercs I simply pointed to the link (below) that describes the problems caused by the super soft Continental tubeless tyres.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-headache.html (Continental Tyres are a headache !)
You have to be very careful here because its very clear that what you are stating here is your hunch rather than any research . The sidewall thickness / strength has nothing to do with whether a tyre is tubeless or not . Tubeless options are way safer and better options than tubed ones , the earlier you realise , the better it is for you

Regarding the thread quoted by you - first of all one experience cannot make or break a complete genre - secondly the thread is completely irrelevant to drawing a conclusion that tubeless is worse off than tubed tyres. Please go through the thread yourself - a Merc owner in his proper senses would never choose a tubed tyre
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Old 24th August 2011, 02:19   #129
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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You have to be very careful here because its very clear that what you are stating here is your hunch rather than any research . The sidewall thickness / strength has nothing to do with whether a tyre is tubeless or not . Tubeless options are way safer and better options than tubed ones , the earlier you realise , the better it is for you
A Merc with tubed tyres ?
You are missing the point here. The primary concern of the thread starter (the merged one) is about a tyre blowout on stock tyres, not a puny puncture . Everyone is ga-ga about tubeless and enjoy the benefits without much thought especially in the Indian context and the given condition of our roads.

3 out or 4 cars that our family owns has tubeless and I am quite happy with it. Infact I hate the tyre noise and the tyre pressure variations found in the car that has tubed tyres. The overall benefits and safety of tubeless are indeed proven and I am not challenging that.

BUT when driving over unexpected obstracles and debris on our roads, leading to a tyre blow-out, a tubed tyre fares much better than a tubeless. The sidewall of a tubeless is the most vulnerable area - no guesses or hunches here. The blowout is much better controlled on the tubed tyre and a lot more rubber would stay on the wheel to provide some traction.

Not that tubeless don't come with sturdy sidewall (more ply rating), you see them plenty on top end SUVs but are woefully inadequate on most of the mid-segment cars that we drive daily.
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Old 24th August 2011, 02:46   #130
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Default Re: Are Tubeless actually more dangerous than the tube type tires?

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Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
BUT when driving over unexpected obstracles and debris on our roads, leading to a tyre blow-out, a tubed tyre fares much better than a tubeless. The sidewall of a tubeless is the most vulnerable area - no guesses or hunches here. The blowout is much better controlled on the tubed tyre and a lot more rubber would stay on the wheel to provide some traction.

Not that tubeless don't come with sturdy sidewall (more ply rating), you see them plenty on top end SUVs but are woefully inadequate on most of the mid-segment cars that we drive daily.
Plain and simple , you are wrong ! In case you are interested in educating yourself , you can refer to the below links :-

Tire Terminology - Lots of Information about Tires [refer to sidewall strength which will make it clear that it depends on the tyres ply ratings ]

Tire Tech Information - Load Range/Ply Rating Identification [ This will explain to you what is a ply rating ]

As should be apparent to you , sidewall strength does not depend on whether a tyre is tubeless or not . I do not want any propective buyer to be misled that sidewall strength is a factor of a tyre being tubeless or tubed - beyond this I do not find any merit in continuing the discussion on this topic
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Old 25th August 2011, 09:58   #131
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Default Re: Are tubeless tyres unsuitable for Indian Roads

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...tml#post333238 (Sidewall puncture in tubeless tyre)

I see someone just revived the old thread above. It's interesting to note that a puncture-fix on a sidewall of a tubeless is like driving on a bomb and is best to replace it entirely or put a tube inside to maintain safety.

Now don't start shooting from the hip, I am not pushing anyone to switch back to tubed tyres, in-fact nowadays you won't find tubed tyres in tyre shops even if you wanted to buy one, prospective buyers need to be aware of the pros and cons and drive safe.
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Old 29th August 2011, 12:12   #132
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Default Re: Are tubeless tyres unsuitable for Indian Roads

I have had a high speed (100 kph+) tubeless blow out on my Ikon 1.6 front right tyre (Goodyear F1 eagle GSD II), caused out of hitting a projecting corner of a manhole enclosure. The impact was so strong that I saw sparks and part of the rim-lip was yanked off. Yet, the car came to a halt controllably, without the tyre disintegrating, or the car hitting the cars driving beside mine (one of them was a Merc).
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Old 13th May 2012, 17:33   #133
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Default Re: Are tubeless tyres unsuitable for Indian Roads

There seems to be a belief going around that tubeless tires do not blow out. I faced a violent blowout on a brand new tubeless that had done only about 1000 miles because I hit the sidewalk at 5mph (I am serious, it was a parking lot). I have had sidewalk hits at much higher speeds on my bridgestone tubed without any adverse effects, except that I have lost all my wheel covers . So I tend to agree with some of the forum members that tubeless side-walls are fragile.
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Old 13th May 2012, 18:32   #134
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Default Re: Are tubeless tyres unsuitable for Indian Roads

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I have had a high speed (100 kph+) tubeless blow out on my Ikon 1.6 front right tyre (Goodyear F1 eagle GSD II), caused out of hitting a projecting corner of a manhole enclosure. The impact was so strong that I saw sparks and part of the rim-lip was yanked off. Yet, the car came to a halt controllably, without the tyre disintegrating, or the car hitting the cars driving beside mine (one of them was a Merc).
I also faced same problem with my brand new tyre Yokohama.It just clocked 70KM and on Nelamangala highway my back tyre blow out.There was no object inside the tyre.
Given for replacement but now they said it cannot be replaced ,they will do repair.Please suggest me what should I do now ? .My old tyre was Michelin and clocked 67K without any problem.
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Old 14th May 2012, 00:20   #135
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Default Re: Are tubeless tyres unsuitable for Indian Roads

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I faced a violent blowout on a brand new tubeless that had done only about 1000 miles because I hit the sidewalk at 5mph (I am serious, it was a parking lot). I have had sidewalk hits at much higher speeds on my bridgestone tubed without any adverse effects.
Highly depends on the type of tyres. For example, Michelin XM1+ sidewall is much..much softer than the Bridgestone Turanza ER60's. Both are tubeless and highly recommended. Its my personal experience.
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Please suggest me what should I do now ? .My old tyre was Michelin and clocked 67K without any problem.
Dude, what hit your Tyre?
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