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Old 21st March 2009, 11:42   #31
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Two things:
1) What if the puncturing nail does not stay embedded?
Ans: Ok, so you mean the nail performed a quick in-and-out action on the tyre and did not continue the journey with you? So the tyre also will have premature loss of air!
2) What if the nozzle of the tube is fitted to the rim with suitable gaskets to prevent air leaks from that portion?
Ans: I haven't seen such gaskets that'll make nozzles leakproof in tyres. Humans?
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Old 21st March 2009, 11:56   #32
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Ans: I haven't seen such gaskets that'll make nozzles leakproof in tyres.
Neither have I, LOL!
I asked because the air loss would occur from the nozzle mounting hole. What is the other possibility?
The bead is well sealed against the rim, the tyre rubber is the same. Rapid loss does not occur from the hole that a nail has left behind.
So the quick loss occurs from the nozzle fixing hole in the rim? If this is sealed with ordinary rubber/fibre washers, would not air loss take place as slowly as in a tubeless condition?

Just thoughts!
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Old 21st March 2009, 12:05   #33
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Mathursaab: As the tube progressively loses air, it moves/shuffles inside the tyre as the wheel turns. This can also tear off the valve stem (nozzle) from its insertion hole on the rim - many of us have experienced this. If the forces are so high as to uproot and tear off the valve stem from the tube, what gasket can we talk about.

You're right - ideally speaking, in a tubeless tyre with a tube in it, once the tube is punctured, the air WILL come out of the hole in the rim. But as the tyre deflates and the tube shuffles inside, the beads/sidewalls of the tyre will also shift out from their position on the rim, and airtight contact will not be maintained anymore.
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Old 21st March 2009, 12:35   #34
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
This can also tear off the valve stem (nozzle) from its insertion hole on the rim - many of us have experienced this.
In the ol' days of tubed tyres, I never had a nozzle sheared off in case of a flat. The nozzle generally stayed in place and was not 'lost' inside the tyre.
So, if the mounting hole is sealed, the air from a punctured tube will inflate the tyre and it should not go totally flat, what say?! I would be just slightly under inflated. Then, slowly the air would leak out of the hole made by the puncturing object.
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Old 21st March 2009, 12:56   #35
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
I never had a nozzle sheared off in case of a flat. The nozzle generally stayed in place and was not 'lost' inside the tyre.
Then, slowly the air would leak out of the hole made by the puncturing object.
Unluckily for me, I've had nozzles rip from tubes, tubes turn inside rims, serial punctures and tears on the tube (as the tube moved against the nail tip), damaged tyre sidewalls, etc. a number of times in the past (now rid of, after switching to TL). Only once have I had a flat after switching to TL - on a JK tyre on the Swift.

No more tubes in my tyres, unless it's an emergency. I continue to carry one or two tubes in the boot for emergency tyre repairs on the highway, but haven't needed them yet. Just insurance.
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Old 21st March 2009, 13:00   #36
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I continue to carry one or two tubes in the boot for emergency tyre repairs on the highway, but haven't needed them yet. Just insurance.
The best insurance is Slime or Ultraseal! Have you not thought about these seriously?
My Scorpio is about to complete two years with Slime in the tyres. I'm pretty impressed.
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Old 21st March 2009, 18:09   #37
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
The best insurance is Slime or Ultraseal! Have you not thought about these seriously?
My Scorpio is about to complete two years with Slime in the tyres. I'm pretty impressed.
What is a good place to get Slime/Ultraseal? And what is the cost involved? Actually, I've never had a flat tyre on my Accent over 35k+ km (1-1/2 years), and one flat on my Swift over 20k+ km (1-1/2 years). So I've been fairly complacent all along. Your suggestion does nudge me from my self-induced complacency to an extent! Wouldn't mind the extra insurance...
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Old 21st March 2009, 20:15   #38
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Zensure, my Swift ZXi has JK tubeless tyres, and there are no tubes inside. This (fitting tubes in a tubeless tyre) would be a highly unusual practice, sometimes followed by commercial (taxi) drivers.

Was your car run/maintained by any other person during its lifetime? Otherwise, if you have been the 1st owner, you can lodge a complaint with the dealer you procured it from.

And please get rid of the tubes from the tyres, since the puncture-resistant characteristics of a tubeless tyre are lost when a tube is present inside.
Thaks, SS-Traveller for the advice. No, I am the first owner, bought from Bimal, Bangalore in May 2006! All along, I was getting the wheel balancing done by Bimal during the servicing. Noway to know I had tubes, since I wasn't present during the servicing. This time I got this done in Sai Iyengar and noticed the tubes. Interestingly, neither Sai Iyengar advised me on removing the tubes.

One more relevant information is that I had bought 14" alloy wheels from Bimal. It was Aura, since at that time Suzuki alloy wheels were not in stock. Also, what I gathered from the forum is that plaving tubes in the TL is an additional expense. Why would Maruti/Bimal do this? Hope there wasn't any catch here!

Will have a chat with Bimal on monday. let me see what they have got to say on this.
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Old 22nd March 2009, 13:08   #39
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Originally Posted by zensure View Post
Why would Maruti/Bimal do this?
Beats me why!! The few times I've seen/known people put in tubes in TL tyres are when (A) this taxi driver insisted on tubes in his TL tyres - the tyre shop guy rolled his eyes and put in the tube as asked, because he didn't want to lose a customer; (B) on a highway with a TL tyre flat, without the resources to do a TL tyre repair, put in an old tube and inflate to get the tyre into serviceable condition for some time; (C) Also, possibly on the highway, when the tyrewallah's compressor has low air pressure and can't seat the beads of a TL tyre - use a tube and inflate.

Of course, since you have the tubes, you must have paid for them. That's a sale rung up by Bimal. Additional expense for you, additional profit for them...
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Old 22nd March 2009, 13:20   #40
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Why would Maruti/Bimal do this?
An insidious plot to discredit the ride quality of the Swift by increasing the unsprung weight?
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Old 15th July 2009, 21:13   #41
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Default tubeless tyre with tube confusion - help needed

I have lancer diesel, with stock rims, which has michelin tubeless radial, i bought an set of used alloys and changed to it and used with tube, once the spare wheel got punctured ( that too alloy) went to an puncture shop and they not ready to fix the repair, since fear of crack in alloy ( theres no latest tyre changing equipment on that place i went) so i feared how to rely on this kind and go for long drives where no tyre changing equipment is available.

Then back home and changed to stock steel rims again, and alloys are sleeping in my loft. Can i use alloy with this tubeless tyre (without using tube) and i fear , the mouth of tyres could be damaged because of removing and fitting of tyres during punctures. so that the air might escape if i use this tyre without tube. please help.
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Old 15th July 2009, 21:17   #42
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Originally Posted by rajivanoj View Post
Then back home and changed to stock steel rims again, and alloys are sleeping in my loft. Can i use alloy with this tubeless tyre (without using tube) and i fear , the mouth of tyres could be damaged because of removing and fitting of tyres during punctures. so that the air might escape if i use this tyre without tube. please help.
AFAIK there ain't any harm in running tubeless tyres on stock rims. I ran this setup on my car initially for about 6k kms. So take a chill pill and enjoy driving your car.
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Old 15th July 2009, 21:22   #43
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You can use tube in tubeless tires without any harm, be it alloys or steel rims. As far as damaging the tire lips, if proper machines are used to fit and remove the tires, damage will not happen.
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Old 16th July 2009, 11:40   #44
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
You can use tube in tubeless tires without any harm, be it alloys or steel rims. As far as damaging the tire lips, if proper machines are used to fit and remove the tires, damage will not happen.
+1 to that. As far as damage to the tyre lips (beads) is concerned, even without a tyre removal/remounting machine, there are minimal chances of damage to the beads if done properly in expert hands. One tool not to use is a hammer.
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Old 16th July 2009, 11:52   #45
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Remember the good old days. All cars came with tubeless tyres (I am talking of the 60's). The repair fellows could not handle tubeless. So the first puncture and in went a tube.

Today almost all roadside repairers at least have a mechanical bead separator. So no real issues here.
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