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Old 20th October 2008, 23:34   #61
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Dear, I think the best way to draw a conclusion would be, swap your tyres to other car and check traction.

few of my oberservations:
1. PP2 is V rated and S.drive is W rated(v=240, W=270) so heating up should not be the issue with W rating but may be an issue with V rated tyre
2.I learnt S.drive are micro silica based tyres, Micro silica based tyre will have very less heat generation as compared to conventionetional carbon based tyres.This is basic property of micro silica based tyres, their performance over range of tempratures remain similar, even they behave similar if there is huge differnece in atmospheric temrature.

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Accrording to this link S.drive are the best possible UHPTs PP2 are not even mentioned here.
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Old 21st October 2008, 00:13   #62
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Originally Posted by itzzme View Post
few of my oberservations:
1. PP2 is V rated and S.drive is W rated(v=240, W=270) so heating up should not be the issue with W rating but may be an issue with V rated tyre
2.I learnt S.drive are micro silica based tyres, Micro silica based tyre will have very less heat generation as compared to conventionetional carbon based tyres.This is basic property of micro silica based tyres, their performance over range of tempratures remain similar, even they behave similar if there is huge differnece in atmospheric temrature.
I take well to all the kind suggestions from all my friends on the forum earlier, but marketing talk?

Since you work for Yokohama, instead of spamming me with marketing talk, why dont you please help by asking some technical guy in the company to look at the problem?
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Old 21st October 2008, 00:18   #63
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Originally Posted by itzzme View Post
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Accrording to this link S.drive are the best possible UHPTs PP2 are not even mentioned here.
Thats because PP2 is not sold in the US. Even PP2 is a micro silica based tyre.

Speed ratings have no meaning whatsoever other than the fact that the tyre won't disintegrate when driven at those speeds for a certain fixed amount of time. It says zilch about braking performance or anything else.
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Old 21st October 2008, 01:06   #64
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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
Am I relieved to find somebody else who says the same! Actually, we were betting when we were coming back from the drive that nobody will believe if I post a negative review.
Well I have a very good reason for spending that much extra money on Michelin MXV8s for my own Swift VDi. Believe you me, the S.drives aren't in the same league. You really should have called me before you took the (S.)leap.

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Originally Posted by tadukuttan
Also, can you help me sell these? And they still look new, no chipping or any other visible damage.
I think Ford Rocam is in the market for this size. His driving is basically in town, for race use he has drag radials. Speak to him.
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
a bit , but are G III's that bad ?
They're probably worse. The only time I've seen aftermarket 'performance' tyres that were probably worse than the stock tyres on some cars.

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Originally Posted by prabhuav View Post
I was really surprised - rather shocked at the way the Sdrives behaved on Tadu's car.

But I have a theory for this. All the people world over who are happy about these are driving rear wheel drive cars, and very few of them are on diesels. The front wheel drives are smaller and lighter , and again primarily petrol. if people have the power, they rarely can get away driving such high speeds for sustained distances.

Additionally the torque delivery on the peted elantra is a tad too violent for the lack of a better word. The diesel elantra in that respect is pretty unique an animal in that it is putting way too much abuse on the front tyres that the S drives are unable to take.

My tuppence
I don't think this is the case. You see people driving M3s, Evos, STis etc with these tyres, and believe you me a modded Evo or Impreza has neck-snapping torque -- in the league of 50 kgm and sometimes very sudden in delivery. Most of these cars are not driven like this. They are either driven at highway-legal speeds -- 100 kmph continuously -- with very little chance of sudden braking or acceleration, or on tracks for 5 laps at a time. The way Tadu drives -- and I have had the privilege of riding shotgun often (and trying vainly to keep up sometimes ) -- is what tyres are normally TESTED at.

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Originally Posted by itzzme View Post
Dear, I think the best way to draw a conclusion would be, swap your tyres to other car and check traction.

few of my oberservations:
1. PP2 is V rated and S.drive is W rated(v=240, W=270) so heating up should not be the issue with W rating but may be an issue with V rated tyre
2.I learnt S.drive are micro silica based tyres, Micro silica based tyre will have very less heat generation as compared to conventionetional carbon based tyres.This is basic property of micro silica based tyres, their performance over range of tempratures remain similar, even they behave similar if there is huge differnece in atmospheric temrature.

Consumer Survey Results By Category
Accrording to this link S.drive are the best possible UHPTs PP2 are not even mentioned here.
First off, PP2s are not sold in the US. Second, we all have Google (look who's talking!).
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Old 21st October 2008, 01:35   #65
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kb100

What Yokos did u have? ES100 ?
Yup the ES 100s. I was using the Michellin MXF Sport prior to that. The minute I put the ES100's on I called the person who recommended the tyre - in panic - over the apparent complete loss of traction. The Michelins used to track so straight and true that it took delibrate effort to get the vehicle to change track. Where as I got absolutely no feedback from these tyres - steering effort was 10 % of what it was earlier!

I was advised not to worry - but I never could gather the confidence to do the speeds I was doing earlier. Wet grip absolutely sucked - as I found out painfully! My accident was clearly avoidable if I had the old Michelins on. The wet grip on those tyres were amazing!

I decided to get back to Michelin (PP1s) BEFORE the onset of this year's Monsoons and BOY am I happy with the outcome! Even my wife can feel the difference (less wallow). Copious amounts of grip - both on wet and dry surfaces - very comforting!!

Never will my family ever ride on anything other than Michelins hereafter!!


(All tyres were/are 195-60/R14s and mounted on the same HR Alloys)
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Old 21st October 2008, 02:58   #66
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While we all can sit here & speculate & create our own theories on what WE think is wrong with the tyres on Tadu's car, I think the best way to go & test the real cause behind this problem is a back-to-back test with another set of tyres on the same car. The logic is simple:

As Tadu himself & others have pointed out there are quite a few variables which are being thought as the cause of the whole problem. While in my personal capacity I do not believe that the old suspension or the new suspension is the cause of this but it is all open to debate. Plus, if this was a problem with the suspension, it would happen from the moment Tadu started driving the car, not 10-15 minutes after.

As for the issue of Alignment/Balancing I think both those can be ruled out quite easily. The car is tracking absolutely dead straight on high speeds and there is no steering wobble either.

Now the question of tyre pressures, unless you're running some ridiculously low pressures or absurdly high pressures I don't see how that can be an effect. Even if the pressure is very low/very high, it can make a difference only after sustained running (which is what is happening in your car) but I trust you've double checked the pressures before commencing your journey back from Mysore. And on that basis I'm ruling this out as a cause too.

Speed rating is also immaterial since a W rated tyre's top limit is well above what you were doing. Even a V-rated tyre would not be effected in any way by running it to 180-200 even for sustained periods.

Getting a set of lemons/manufacturing defect tyres is a probable theory but consider how rare that is in companies like Yokohama/Michelin etc. I think that is not really a high percentage probability.

In conclusion, I think the best way to determine the root cause of this problem before spending any more money is to do a back to back test on your car with a different set of tyres. In this test, try to document as much data as possible (time/durations of runs, route, pressure, wheels used, speeds achieved/sustained etc. etc.) while trying to make sure that as many variables as possible (apart from the tyres obviously) are kept the same like the Driver, Route, Conditions, Pressures< Wheels used etc. etc.

The results of such a test is probably the best way to find out exactly what component of the car is causing this problem for you. And please do post the data along with the results here so that we ourselves can see the difference that a set of tyres can make on a car. I would be personally very, very interested in seeing how this back-to-back test turns out. Should make for some interesting reading.

Just my two cents.

P.S. And I think I should share half the blame for choosing the S-Drives! I advised you to look at them when you wanted a change from the Michelin's!
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Old 21st October 2008, 07:52   #67
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Tadu,are you checking air pressure on a cold tire or after your runs?
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Old 21st October 2008, 11:03   #68
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Quote:
They're probably worse. The only time I've seen aftermarket 'performance' tyres that were probably worse than the stock tyres on some cars.
Haha, looks like you've got a serious grudge against the GIIIs.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 21st October 2008 at 11:05.
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Old 21st October 2008, 11:21   #69
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The GIII arent that bad at all the way its portrayed here, infact its good enough, I have used/abused these tyres on my current ride & my earlier ikon and can vouch for that.
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Old 21st October 2008, 16:01   #70
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Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Haha, looks like you've got a serious grudge against the GIIIs.

Shan2nu
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Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
The GIII arent that bad at all the way its portrayed here, infact its good enough, I have used/abused these tyres on my current ride & my earlier ikon and can vouch for that.
Actually the sn@k3 was slinging mud at the S-Drives... not the GIII.
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Old 21st October 2008, 16:30   #71
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sorry for making the thread go off topic, let the yokohama bashing continue!
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Old 21st October 2008, 19:12   #72
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Thats because PP2 is not sold in the US. Even PP2 is a micro silica based tyre.

Speed ratings have no meaning whatsoever other than the fact that the tyre won't disintegrate when driven at those speeds for a certain fixed amount of time. It says zilch about braking performance or anything else.
PP2 uses silica only on inner two ribs, exterior 60% of the tread does not use silica.
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Old 21st October 2008, 19:26   #73
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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
I take well to all the kind suggestions from all my friends on the forum earlier, but marketing talk?

Since you work for Yokohama, instead of spamming me with marketing talk, why dont you please help by asking some technical guy in the company to look at the problem?
I do not work with any tyre company anymore, i had been in tyre industry for quite sometime.
Throughout my tenure with tyre industry i have always admired only MICHELIN and YOKOHAMA when it comes to rubber tech.

The only point i wanted to make was, the best way of reaching at a conclusion is swap your tyres with other car.
If possible, please do swap wheels as well.

There is another a possibility of mismounting or improper lubricant being used for fitment.
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Old 21st October 2008, 21:30   #74
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@ those who are backing the idea of doing back to back tests - So how many of you are willing to be the pit crew ? Guys, lets get realistic here. Changing a single tire is quite tiresome for most of us on highways. Now expecting Tadu and the rest of us to drive down to Mysore on a Sat night (thats the only time we all are free) and then have us change 8 tires is quite improbable. Not unless we have some volunteers here or automated machinery ala F1.

@ rest who stick by S.drives - No offense inteded, but how many of us have actually driven on any other tires in the same bracket to make a fair comparo? I am an ardent Yoko fan too, heck infact I am running those tires that most people here vouch for without even seeing them in action. Yes, I am talking about the Neova's.

I am guessing that, just like a person who owns a Baleno thinks its a very powerful car hasn't yet driven the Vtec or an Accord. So in my opinion unless I drive one of these its not fair to say a baleno is very powerful. How would you define powerful? More powerful than all the cars you have driven/previously owned? Or just too powerful for you to handle it? Similarly I think its tough to imagine the good/bad reviews as they haven't been compared to a similar price/performance bracket tire.

Similarly, unless one has driven these cars on different sets up rubber, its not easy to make this conclusion. I have seen the Elantra's, driven them on Michelin Vivacy, XM1's, PP2, S.drives and the stock rubber as well.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 21st October 2008 at 21:38.
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Old 21st October 2008, 21:43   #75
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Rahul, all one has to do is take the 2 cars a day before to a tyre shop. Get the tyres swapped in 10minutes. Then next day go for your drive. After the drive come to a conclusion and replace the S-drives.

It will be for the benefit of members as well as remove all doubts.

I know it's not worth risking it for the sake of testing but it will be helpful to everyone in the future.
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