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Old 7th November 2008, 17:10   #1
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Angry Yokohama ES-100: Tyre failure.

I took delivery of my Swift VDi on 26th Oct’08 and drove straight to the tyre dealer to have the stock tyres changed over. I choose to switch over to 195/60/R15 Yokohama ES-100 tyres with League make Mag alloys. The car was not used for the next couple of days for fitment of accessories and has been operative for the last one week and has barely made 400 Kms.

Yesterday evening on my way back home from the airport after dropping a friend I was leisurely cruising at around 80/85 kmph on the Rajarhat bypass and intercepted the first signal after nearly driving for 20kms. While trying to move on after the lights turned green, I realized the steering getting very heavy and the car was very sluggish to react.

Sensing something seriously wrong, parked car on the sideway and to my dismay found that the front right wheel was flat. Changed over to the stock spare wheel and drove back home (5 kms off) carefully to avoid misbehavior for the tyre size mix.

Next morning inspected the tyre and noticed that there was a deep side wall tear. I felt extremely disappointed and drove down to the tyre dealer. He gave me a temporary replacement of a old tyre and requested me check back on the replacement status after two days. The dealer felt that some sharp object must have created the tear on the sidewall. I showed him immediately that there was no mark on the rims nor any mark could be found on the car body, bumper or underbody near the front right wheel.

My questions to Gurus are How could this have happened? Is the dealer taking me for a ride to avoid replacement?Are Yokohama tyres so very susceptible to early failures?Has it anything to do with the much discussed “New tyre initial rubbing in”?Would request for expert opinion please.....
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Old 7th November 2008, 18:04   #2
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probably a sharp object since you were on the right side and may be close to median. Some projections enough to make a cut and nor necessarily leave marks on the rims etc. Look for any signs of bursting from inside out. cuts from the outside should look like cuts i guess. not sure though.
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Old 7th November 2008, 18:07   #3
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First, I am not a tire guru. But, as an exacting end user, some comments...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUM View Post
Yesterday evening on my way back home from the airport after dropping a friend I was leisurely cruising at around 80/85 kmph on the Rajarhat bypass and intercepted the first signal after nearly driving for 20kms. While trying to move on after the lights turned green, I realized the steering getting very heavy and the car was very sluggish to react.
Any sharp objects before the signal? Any noise from a tire burst? And no signs of trouble before the signal? Was the pressure within recommended norms in the tire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUM View Post
Next morning inspected the tyre and noticed that there was a deep side wall tear. I felt extremely disappointed and drove down to the tyre dealer. He gave me a temporary replacement of a old tyre and requested me check back on the replacement status after two days. The dealer felt that some sharp object must have created the tear on the sidewall. I showed him immediately that there was no mark on the rims nor any mark could be found on the car body, bumper or underbody near the front right wheel.
Most sidewalls tears are caused by falling into a pothole, hitting a stone, kerb etc. Have never really seen a tire with a side wall tear happening otherwise.

Can you post a clear picture of the torn sidewall? Probably we can make more sense of the issue if we are able to see how it looks.

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Originally Posted by SOUM View Post
Is the dealer taking me for a ride to avoid replacement?
Standard practice among most tire companies in India is to ignore customer complaints. With our archaic legal system, it is almost impossible to even go for legal recourse. And they know it.

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Originally Posted by SOUM View Post
Has it anything to do with the much discussed “New tyre initial rubbing in”?
Hm, it is mostly lonely people that break down from lack of some loving rubbing. Not tires as far as I know.
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Old 7th November 2008, 18:07   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUM View Post
Yesterday evening on my way back home from the airport after dropping a friend I was leisurely cruising at around 80/85 kmph on the Rajarhat bypass and intercepted the first signal after nearly driving for 20kms. While trying to move on after the lights turned green, I realized the steering getting very heavy and the car was very sluggish to react.
If it was a sidewall tear, you would have heard the pop sound of air getting released, so looks to me like you had a slow leak and did not notice. The damage could have occured AFTER the tyre got deflated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUM View Post
The dealer felt that some sharp object must have created the tear on the sidewall. I showed him immediately that there was no mark on the rims nor any mark could be found on the car body, bumper or underbody near the front right wheel.
Not sure if they would agree to that... he might argue that it is possible to get the tyre damaged without having to hit the rims or body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUM View Post
My questions to Gurus are How could this have happened? Is the dealer taking me for a ride to avoid replacement?Are Yokohama tyres so very susceptible to early failures?Has it anything to do with the much discussed “New tyre initial rubbing in”?Would request for expert opinion please.....
Am not a guru, but will try to answer anyway. AVS-ES100s are not susceptible to damage as far as I know as they come with a stiff sidewall compared to other similar tyres (read michelins). I have personally put them through a lot more torture, including drifting on the track and they have held up quiet well. the downside being, ride comfort was always harsh and there was some road noise.

This is not part of the new-tyre rubbing in procedure. That would not affect a tyre this way.

Just my 2cents... See if your dealer can give you a replacement as he can mostly claim warranty. If you do, enjoy your tyres without further worries as ES-100s (though outdated now) are quiet good.
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Old 7th November 2008, 19:00   #5
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Thanks Kutlee / Tadukuttan / Quicksilver for your views.

Let me clarify certain points raised:
1. Inspite of being near the median, hitting of any sharp object which can cut open the sidewall would definitely be felt on the steering wheel. Never felt anything hitting me.
2. No big pot-hole hits. I cannot however, confirm the same about loose stone chips lying on the roads. Have never experienced any stone chips causing side wall tear.
3.No tyre bursting sound was heard. Popping sound may have been damped out by the music system.
4.Immediately before the signal (say around 400mtrs) there was a sharp left hand end and the car turned preety smoothly on the turns. Had there been a slow puncture, I should have felt it on the turn at a speed of 60/65 kmph.

Feeling quite hopeless on the replacement front after reading your comments. Slowly comming to terms with the sad incident.

The damaged tyre is still with the dealer and once the issue is settled would try to post pictures of the tyre, should it still be accessible.
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Old 7th November 2008, 19:26   #6
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I lost one goodyear ventura when it was 5 days old to a stone on the road. I was taking a U turn and accelerating when i noticed the stone. I tried to avoid it by a sharp turn on steering (bad idea coming to think of it now) instead of running over it, i felt a slight nudge on the steering. Within 100 mts i felt the car wiggle and pulled onto the side, to see the sidewall torn and tire completely deflated.

The stone IIRC was a very blunt looking rectangular bit, similar to the concrete blocks they use to pave the footpaths here in BLR. Looked very innocent and i never thought it had ability to tear rubber. Did some reading up and came to know that the imported rubber generally have soft sidewall.

It was like a serious crack but not completely torn or anything while deflated, but the damage was done and tire became irreparable! :(

Please note that i didnt hear any burst sound OR air leakage sound while inside the car (it was peak traffic also).

In short it might be a foreign object that caused the damage, which is the usual reason why tire gets a sidewall damage.

After this the car has run 20k kms plus on same brand of tyre over the most difficult roads one can think off, high speeds, slow speeds you name it, these tires have seen it. Roads with sharp and small granite stones (ones used to prepare a mud road before taring) and what not. Touch wood no issues so far.

Last edited by Jaggu : 7th November 2008 at 19:32.
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Old 8th November 2008, 00:47   #7
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havent es100s been discontinued a long while ago? maybe because these were old tires? tyre bhagwaan may be able to help?
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Old 8th November 2008, 01:24   #8
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Iam facing a similar problem with my Es-100. The side wall of my tire too had a small cut in it. Went to the dealer but he insisted on not giving it to the company. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ncident-2.html (Ikon Unstable at speeds above 100kph after minor incident.)
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Old 8th November 2008, 08:30   #9
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you are right, based on the timing of events, looks like something happened at around the signal. put a picture and may be able to guess what might have happened. also if the object is sharp enough the tyre should have given in without any steering feedback. may be a left over construction angle iron piece???
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Old 8th November 2008, 14:25   #10
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Hi SOUM,

Sorry to hear of your incident. I have now run 195/60/R14 ES100s on my Aveo for around 7500km here in Bangalore with no issues. AFAIK, they are not susceptible to early failures etc i.e. more than similar brands. Just swallow the loss and go for another one - you have to get a ES100 anyway due to their unidirectional nature.

One piece of advice is to exchange the dissimilar (stock) spare for a exactly same size tyre while you are anyway interacting with the tyre dealer. Go for a cheap standard non-unidirectional 195/60/15 especially if you go out on highways. You don't want to face driving on the wrong sized tyre for long! Also, tyre dealers don't want to exchange older tyres (even unused ones) due to hardening issues. I want to change my 185/60 spare but will get peanuts as compared to earlier.

Last edited by itwasntme : 8th November 2008 at 14:30. Reason: Clarification
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Old 8th November 2008, 16:00   #11
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Bad luck SOUM. Highly unlikely though that you will get a replacement from the company (unless Yoko feel that as goodwill gesture they want to replace it FOC).

If you could post a pic, it will help a lot.

I suggest the title be changed as this doesnt seem to be a tyre failure. More like terribly luck for SOUM.
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Old 9th November 2008, 15:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I lost one goodyear ventura when it was 5 days old to a stone on the road. I was taking a U turn and accelerating when i noticed the stone. I tried to avoid it by a sharp turn on steering (bad idea coming to think of it now) instead of running over it, i felt a slight nudge on the steering. Within 100 mts i felt the car wiggle and pulled onto the side, to see the sidewall torn and tire completely deflated.

The stone IIRC was a very blunt looking rectangular bit, similar to the concrete blocks they use to pave the footpaths here in BLR. Looked very innocent and i never thought it had ability to tear rubber. Did some reading up and came to know that the imported rubber generally have soft sidewall.

It was like a serious crack but not completely torn or anything while deflated, but the damage was done and tire became irreparable! :(

Please note that i didnt hear any burst sound OR air leakage sound while inside the car (it was peak traffic also).


In short it might be a foreign object that caused the damage, which is the usual reason why tire gets a sidewall damage.



After this the car has run 20k kms plus on same brand of tyre over the most difficult roads one can think off, high speeds, slow speeds you name it, these tires have seen it. Roads with sharp and small granite stones (ones used to prepare a mud road before taring) and what not. Touch wood no issues so far.
I am apprehending something similar might have happened to my tires. I was more towards the median and a construction work was on for a new flyover. My sidewall cut was virtually thru & thru. It just held somehow. On inspection by the dealer, when he inserted a tool to have a look, it just went thru effortlessly.
Like you, even I did not hear any bursting sound or air leakage sound.

What was the fate of your damaged tire? Did the dealer replace it?
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Old 9th November 2008, 16:53   #13
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BTW, did you check the date of manufacture of the tyre when you bought it ? It should be on the sidewall as 'wwyy' i.e. week #ww of year yy ?
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Old 9th November 2008, 23:42   #14
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@SOUM, my experience was similar to Jaggu's. 4 day old F1, went into a pothole. No pop etc. Went into a wedding reception. Discovered the flat post dinner. Had taken the tyres from Minku. No replacement for sidewall cuts was the feedback. Got a new one and moved on :(
Since then the tyres have run 27K. Through numerous potholes and horrible roads. No further issues.
I'm guessing the incident occured near the Wipro crossing? If so, some flyover construction material could be the culprit.
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Old 10th November 2008, 12:20   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
BTW, did you check the date of manufacture of the tyre when you bought it ? It should be on the sidewall as 'wwyy' i.e. week #ww of year yy ?
I did check it Lancer_rit. Did my homework thru BHP and checked the date of manufacture at the point of purchase. They were July, 2008.
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