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Old 19th March 2009, 14:25   #76
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Yes because the slip angle of these tyres are greater than normal tyres. Now why did I upgrade suspension so fast.
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Old 19th March 2009, 15:37   #77
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Even at the slightest curves, there is too much body roll and the suspension is too soft.

Also, yesterday, there was some heavy rain in Mysore and we drove on Hunsur Road to the new Honda showroom there. The tyres are quite good in the rains. I didnt have much opportunity to test them at speeds greater than 60 or 70kmph, but at these speeds, not once did I feel the loss of grip or aquaplaning. It was quite predictable and steering was as sharp as ever(within the limits of the crappy steering i.e).
Well I drive this stretch almost every other weekend and at 60-70kmph if you did experience body roll then its the NHC's crappy suspension.

I have pushed my car beyond the Ilvaala stretch on the superbly made S curves and I felt the body roll only at speeds of above 100 or so.

With the S-drives I think am better off .
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Old 19th March 2009, 15:48   #78
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Nikhilb2008 is taking curves in the range 80~100.
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Took most of the curves at 80 or so and while it was a breeze, there was a little too much body roll.
Nikhilb2008 is driving on wet road in the range 60~70.
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The tyres are quite good in the rains. I didnt have much opportunity to test them at speeds greater than 60 or 70kmph, but at these speeds, not once did I feel the loss of grip or aquaplaning.
60~70 was in the rains.
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Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Well I drive this stretch almost every other weekend and at 60-70kmph if you did experience body roll then its the NHC's crappy suspension.
Its only in the mind - hit the pedal and take the curves. The car just obliges.
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Old 19th March 2009, 15:56   #79
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Its only in the mind - hit the pedal and take the curves. The car just obliges.
Very true, if you hit the pedal and take the curve thinking it's only in the mind the car will oblige by throwing you off the road into a ditch for attempting to try something so stupid beyond the car's limits.
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Old 29th March 2009, 06:21   #80
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I got a set of AD07s for my Lotus Sport Elise (175/50-16 and 225/45-17). Its a nice tyre. Its soft compared to the A048 and the Toyo R888, but on the road, its better than those two because it patters around less on broken pavement, and is less noisy and lasts much longer. On the track, the AD07 is very progressive and and forgiving and really comes alive at the speeds that less expereinced drivers go around the track, which is still pretty damn fast, but the slip angles are much larger than with the other tyres I have used on the track, therefore needing much more steering input (earlier turn in, deeper turn in, etc), and the car moves around more which is not a bad thing because you get a better feel for whats happening, and therefore a better feel for what you need to do, and more time to do it.

The A048 and R888 have much more grip through, since this is what they are made for, they carve through the curves much better, but you need much more speed to make them move around on the tarmac the way the AD07 does, but then you don't have so much time to react. When they let go, they go suddenly and you need to be very good to catch them. The R888 is MUCH superior to the A048. It generates about the same level of grip as the A048, but the A048 fades quickly and does not retain its grip and feel over the length of its life, but the R888 does, plus the R888 has much superior feel and communicativeness of the track and I feel much more confident pushing the my limits on the R888.

But to be honest, I consider all 3 too extreme for road use, even in the Elise, never mind something like a Honda CIty or civic.

I think for me a lot of that comes from so much track work, where I have become comfortable with using tyres at the limit, and I have discovered that cars are actually capable of absolutely mind blowing speed even on very modest tyres, but for that you need to know how to drive properly. As I have learned how to drive really fast, I have found that for me the pleasure is not in the absolute grip, but in managing the grip to go faster and faster, and feeling the grip and using the streering and throttle and brakes to manage the car's inertia to feel the car drift and transition between neutral and oversteer and understeer.

On the road, tyres that have so much grip that they are just mute and just stick as they go around corners are not appealing anymore.

Therefore I would not use the AD07 on a road car.

My favorite road tyres of all those that I have expereinced are the Continental ContiSportContact. THey have not highly regarded because amongst the tyres of this class they dont have the most grip or the sharpest steering response, but they are grippy enough for a good driver to go extremely fast, while also being very forgiving and communicative, but they are also absolutely brilliant in the wet and at very low temperatures, and they have a good ride. I also like the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3, which are grippier, have sharper steering response, brilliant in the wet but they don't have such a good ride.

Oh and one more thing: I don't understand all the enthusiasm for the S.Drive. Its probably one of the worst tyres in this class.

Last edited by Harbir : 29th March 2009 at 06:29.
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Old 30th March 2009, 15:23   #81
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The AD07 would also be infinitely better than the AO48/888 in wet conditions which might be encountered in normal street driving.

And contrary to your opinion, most GSD3 reports have been negative mainly due to high tyre noise and the tyre losing it's performance quite rapidly as it ages.
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Old 30th March 2009, 15:52   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
The AD07 would also be infinitely better than the AO48/888 in wet conditions which might be encountered in normal street driving.

And contrary to your opinion, most GSD3 reports have been negative mainly due to high tyre noise and the tyre losing it's performance quite rapidly as it ages.
I've heard the same as well. GTO himself had a similar experience with the Eagle F1s which have a very similar pattern as the GSD3s. Most unidirectional tyres (like the ES 100s, GSD3s, Eagle F1s, Victra MA Z1s) have the same problem. Dry grip is good only for the first few thousand kms after which people notice only the negatives. Too much road noise, no grip, harsh ride, etc..etc..
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Old 30th March 2009, 16:42   #83
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
The AD07 would also be infinitely better than the AO48/888 in wet conditions which might be encountered in normal street driving.

And contrary to your opinion, most GSD3 reports have been negative mainly due to high tyre noise and the tyre losing it's performance quite rapidly as it ages.
thats interesting. the last two tire tests I saw, one in the US and one in Britain, both had the GS-D3 ranked first, and the Continental ranked second. the US test had the AD07 ranked third, recognizing its better dry performance but penalizing for its lower wet performance.

Also, it is a very popular performance tire amongst Lotus and MX-5 enthusiasts and I have not heard these complaints.

However, its possible that what you say does happen to it in Indian road and climate conditions.
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Old 30th March 2009, 16:50   #84
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Most unidirectional tyres (like the ES 100s, GSD3s, Eagle F1s, Victra MA Z1s) have the same problem. Dry grip is good only for the first few thousand kms after which people notice only the negatives. Too much road noise, no grip, harsh ride, etc..etc..
Frankly, I find it nearly unbelievable that all these tyres exhibit this problem of losing grip over time.

I have to wonder if the Indian market is being sent old stock. Tyres have to purchased and used when freshly manufactured.

If this is not the issue, then frankly, I have difficulty believing this. I have seen these tyres discussed in virtually every setting I am in (local car clubs, track events, and track club publications, forums for the various cars I owned or have owned) and this is the first time I am hearing such a thing.

i have to wonder if it is a function of the condition of the Indian roads.
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Old 30th March 2009, 17:02   #85
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I've heard good things about the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric's but unfortunately they aren't available here. Both the GSD2 & 3 have not done too well in our market, as you say it could be our weather and conditions that cause this.
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Old 30th March 2009, 19:40   #86
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The AD07 would also be infinitely better than the AO48/888 in wet conditions which might be encountered in normal street driving.
Speaking from my expereince, I would say that this is partially true. I have been out on the track in very wet conditions and found the A048 shockingly grippy.

This is especially notable because at Virginia international Raceway, there is a series of very fast downhill corners (called the roller coaster and Hog Pen) just before you get dumped on the front straight. At the bottom of the hill, at the last corner, the elevation is lowest (before you start climbing up the front straight), and the car slams down on its springs here while turning (my front left tyre has made a hole in the splash shield from coming in contact with it). In the wet, this is a very dangerous corner at any time, but in the wet, it becomes absolutely wicked because its a low point and water collects here and flows across the track right there. Also, the flow of water is at an angle to the track so you don't hit it square. you hit it first on the front right, then on the front left. Suddenly slow down or aquaplaning of the right starting a moment before the left due to earlier contact with the water, in the middle of a high speed, high G corner causes the car to spin. On rainy days, endless number of cars go spinning off the track here, onto the wet grass and it makes for very spectacular offs.

THe reason I mention this is, the A048 was absolutely unflinching in these wet conditions.

However, this is true ONLY when the tyre's tread depth is near full.

When the tread depth goes down, it becomes frightening. It gets so bad that going 90km/h in a straight line, not accelerating, on wet tarmac, no standing water, will cause instant sliding if you go over some smooth textured pavement. People have reported very frightening expereinces when hitting standing water on the road.

Frankly, these are not tyres for road use. I do not use them on the road (unless I haven't had a chance to switch to the AD07s). The level of speed at which they start showing advantage is too high for the street and the penalty they extract is too high.

See, most people, even enthusiasts are not comfortable generating large slip angles. They are not expereinced in managing speed and weight transfer to use the grip any tyre can generate if driven properly. What most people want is to drive exactly as they are used driving (you turn the wheel, car goes where you point it), so if they go faster, they want a tire that generates the level of grip they want without generating large slip angles.

If I can explain it another way, people use 50% (for example) of a tyre's grip ability. In that range, they don't have to do anything much beyond turning the wheel. But to get above that, they have to move into the upper 50% zone which requires a different level of driver ability. THis is because the more of a tyre's grip you use, the more you feel it flex and slide, and you have to have the ability to control the tire in this zone so as to extract the most grip from it. Most people don't have this ability. So when they reach the the 50% (for example) point of their tyre, they start looking for a tyre with more maximum grip. this is not because they will use its maximum grip, but because it lifts that 50% point as well, giving them more speed without having to change how they drive and how they interact with the tyre.

My expereince at the track has taught me that speed on the track is not about horsepower or handling. Its about the driver's ability to exploit the maximum grip potential of any given car/tyre combination. if you are good enough to exploit the maximum any given car/tyre can do, only then is more horsepower, better handling, more grip going to be useful.

I have arrived at a point where I look for a tyre that lets me inch my way into the upper zone in a safe forgiving mannr. I am going to stop using A048s/R888 type tyres on the track. In fact, I am going to drop down even below the AD07. What I want is to learn how to get more out of normal performance tires.

When I bought my last MX-5, the one i have currently, it had 14 year old non-performance tyres on it that had gone very hard and were just useless. And the car's alignment was all wrong. But then I visited a friend of mine who was a retired race driver. this guy had never driven an MX-5 before. and yet, as soon as we got to a windy road, he suddenly started going faster than I can managed even now, with all this track work in a car like a lotus. The speeds he generated through the corners, on those crap tyres, were simply unbelievable.

The fact is, he was extracting more grip from those tyres in that car than I have ever managed to extract from the grippiest tyres I have fitted to my Lotus.

The ability to extract more of what a tire is capable of, that is where the skill of driving, the satisfaction of driving, the thrill of driving really truly resides.
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Old 31st March 2009, 00:30   #87
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True and driver training is something we lack sorely in our country, even for willing individuals since facilities are just not available. I mean I would love to do a track day but doing one would require me to plan weeks in advance and drive down to Chennai which means at least 4 days of commuting and over 5k kms of travelling just for a few hours on the track. As much as I would love it, I can't even think of doing it on a regular basis.

And when I meant wet weather issues, I was pointing specifically towards issues when you would encounter standing water. The limited tread and water dissipation abilities would present a challenging situation is that case (to put it mildly). I wouldn't suggest anybody less than an expert driver to be driving on these tyres on a daily basis.
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Old 31st March 2009, 08:17   #88
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
The AD07 would also be infinitely better than the AO48/888 in wet conditions which might be encountered in normal street driving.
Actually, A048s in good condition will kick the AD07s' behinds. I've driven them in blinding rain and they grip almost like it's dry. But the minute you lose some tread, bye bye birdie.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 22:02   #89
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I replaced my PP2s with AD07 today. The earlier ones were 205/60 R15. The advans are 205/55 R15. Paid quite a princely sum for them but to be honest it was absolutely worth it.

I had expected for the worst but these tyres are way more fun and forgiving than the PP2. The ride on these 55 profile tyres is much better than the 60 profile PP2. The steering also feels a bit livelier and the car feels more chuckable. Surprisingly, I have a funny feeling that the car also feels much more responsive than when it was shod with PP2s. It seems to pull much more easily now.

The lateral grip that these tyres generate is just mind boggling. Plus the braking performance is on a different planet. Glad I switched instead of getting PP2 again. Will do a proper report once I come back from wayanad this weekend.

Edit: Its no more noisy than the PP2s. So I'm not sure what the noisy reports were being compared to.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 3rd September 2009 at 22:13.
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Old 6th September 2009, 23:44   #90
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amazing tires
was wondering if the advan neova's are also available in 185/60 R14 in india ?
am dying to try them out!
congratulations on the super shoes
cheers !
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