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Old 8th December 2009, 22:09   #16
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The dealer got it directly from Michelin. So he called them, and they are refusing to take it back since it is already mounted. However, they are offering to replace the tyre if any defect is found within 3 years. I find that offer unacceptable.

While I have paid full payment for new tyres, why should I end up with 18 month old tyres?
You should'nt and thats the bottom line. Esp with Michelin where you pay thru the nose.

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
You should have checked it before oyu got it installed. You didnt, for whatever reason. But technically, the company is not entitled to give you ANY replacement once you have mounted the tyre.
Isin't that the job of the dealer to check that? At least he should get the customer all 4 tires from the same batch.

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
I suggest, you stop getting so technical. Put it out of your mind and just enjoy the tyres. We TBHPians have this tendency to become too technical and we dont see the real situation.
Why not? Its the same logic that says not to mix old and new tires. Difference being the effect is less severe.
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Old 9th December 2009, 00:04   #17
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Mpower, it is not the job of the dealer. See, 2 years is acceptable is the official stand. Why should the dealer check? The dealer might have a hundred tyres going in and out of his shop every day. It is really not possible to check each and every tyre.

Samurai says his tyres look dirty. Nothing a little tyre polish and some effort cant solve. Old tyres are really not as big an issue as most people make it out to be. It's psychological to a great extent.

It's true that buying tyres which are about 2 years old and then using them for another 4-5 years is not the best thing. But Samurai's tyres are NOT going to last that long unless he leaves his GV parked for weeks together. In that case, whichever tyre it is, it will degrade much faster in 6 months than in 6 years at the company's godown.

Mixing old and new tyres where the old tyres have run a few thousand kms is true. Not when the age of the tyres is different. It will hardly make any difference. I wish we could have some sort of a blind challenge where people are given two sets of tyres. One brand new and one about 2 years old. I can guarantee you if the tyres are polished well, no one will know the difference until they actually look at the date of manufacture of the tyre.

Samurai's not been given a tyre that's older than 3 years. It's ok. all companies recommend that you buy tyres within 3 years of the dare of manufacture. Now, let's assume that this works for countries with a cooler climate(europe, most of the US, Japan, etc..). If you try to compensate for India's hot and tropical climate, 2 years is still ok.

Also, while I totally feel for Samurai who has spent his hard earned money on brand new tyres, I dont agree in people bad mouthing Michelin. Michelin's policy is that they will guarantee any tyre for 3 years from the date of sale. Nothing will happen to the tyre. If something happens which is a direct consequence of the age of the tyre, they will replace it. 100%.

But the point is this: Nothing will happen.

Michelin is a company which operates in various countries around the world. Also, the US and Europe where the laws are quite a bit in favour of the consumer. You think they would have made their policies in such a way as to leave them open to lawsuits?

If Samurai was in the US/EU also, he wouldnt have had a choice. It's not older than 3 years. Michelin have no where promised that all the tyres sold are less than a certain age. There is simply no room for cursing Michelin.

I would absolutely love to be proved wrong. I would love it if someone could show me a Yoko/Michelin which has died or been damaged prematurely due to AGE.
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Old 9th December 2009, 00:10   #18
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Actually, I can't blame the dealer here. He ordered 5 tyres and they sent him 4 tyres. He had to order again for one more tyre. Here hardly anyone buys high-end tyres like this. So he just delivered whatever he got from Michelin depot to my installer. Here hardly anyone would look at manufactured dates.

Out of the first 4 tyres, two were Jun08 (2308) and the Michelin logo was smeared in red color. The May09 (2109) tyres were smeared in blue. The fifth tyre (blue & 2109) arrived late when the installation was almost over.


The Michelin LTX AT2 comes only in one size in India, the size I bought. This is a popular tyre, I am sure it has decent sales. They obviously had newer tyres from this year in the depot. Since I am a small town customer, they figured I would never notice. Basically, the Michelin depot acted like a fruit seller. You buy bunch of apples, and they somehow manage to slip couple of bad ones. If you are not smart enough to throw it back before completing the transaction, you are stuck with them.

If they are selling old stock, they should at least make the customer aware that they are selling old stock. Let the customer make the decison whether he wants it.

Michelin is considered the best tyre brand in the world. I wanted to feel wonderful after installing Michelins on my Grand Vitara, but I just feel miserable now.
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Old 9th December 2009, 00:17   #19
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Samurai, it is not old stock by their standards. They do not consider it as old stock. For them anything above 2-2.5 years is old stock.

You feel miserable because you are just allowing yourself to. Why dont you just forget it and enjoy? I know you feel bad, but believe me, it's all psychological. It's not that you wanted Michelin but ended up with MRF.
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Old 9th December 2009, 00:29   #20
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Exactly Nikhil, I am going to replace those two tyres at loss and get over this incident. I am not going to let Michelin spoil my peace of mind.
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Old 9th December 2009, 00:37   #21
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
See, people have a mental block about buying anything older than 6 months. If so, your choice becomes severely restricted.

Today, all the high performance tyres are imported. It is ALMOST impossible to get Contis and some Yokos and osme Michelins which are less than 6 months old.

One and a half years is pushing it though.... However, the companies officially claim that anything upto 2 years is ok. So, dont expect to get a replacement for your tyres unless oyu know the dealer very well.

Technically, there is nothing wrong with a June 2008 tyre. The company will stick to it's stand and the dealer will go by the company.
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The dealer got it directly from Michelin. So he called them, and they are refusing to take it back since it is already mounted. However, they are offering to replace the tyre if any defect is found within 3 years. I find that offer unacceptable.

While I have paid full payment for new tyres, why should I end up with 18 month old tyres?
Unfortunately Sharath, Nikhil is absolutely right here and no dealer or company is going to take the tyres back when they've been fitted. Checking the manufacturing date is your prerogative not the dealer's or companies and they will honour complaints only if the tyre(s) is more than 3 years old.

And your problem is also subjective, gummy residue or dirty looking is not good enough if you consider it from a company's perspective else they'll be replacing tyres all day simply becuase the customer doesn't like the look of them. If they do have a genuine manufacturing defect though, then its a different issue altogether.

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
See, 99.99% of people will not have a problem with these tyres. You are among that 0.01% of people. You should have checked it before oyu got it installed. You didnt, for whatever reason. But technically, the company is not entitled to give you ANY replacement once you have mounted the tyre.

I suggest, you stop getting so technical. Put it out of your mind and just enjoy the tyres. We TBHPians have this tendency to become too technical and we dont see the real situation. Given your usage Samurai, I predict the tyres will wear out in less than three years.
Bingo Nikhil! He's got the points down to the last detail. Sharath, I too would advise you to stop worrying and enjoy the new tyres.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The Michelin LTX AT2 comes only in one size in India, the size I bought. This is a popular tyre, I am sure it has decent sales. They obviously had newer tyres from this year in the depot. Since I am a small town customer, they figured I would never notice. Basically, the Michelin depot acted like a fruit seller. You buy bunch of apples, and they somehow manage to slip couple of bad ones. If you are not smart enough to throw it back before completing the transaction, you are stuck with them.

If they are selling old stock, they should at least make the customer aware that they are selling old stock. Let the customer make the decison whether he wants it.

Michelin is considered the best tyre brand in the world. I wanted to feel wonderful after installing Michelins on my Grand Vitara, but I just feel miserable now.
Oh now now, let's not blow this out of proportion! Knowing how the companies work here, I can assure you no one has the time to see what tyres to send to what dealer depending on the size of the dealer or the locality! You're just exaggerating and making up theories to that effect.

If the regional Michelin godown has say lets say 100 tyres of the LTX2 lying around (a very reasonable figure) do you really think Michelin officials have the time to especially pry out 2 tyres of the old batch to send to you because its going to a small town dealer? Why not send all 4 of the old batch if its a small town? That's just conspiracy theories and you know it.

I know you say the experience was not as good as you would like but then again you too made the mistake of not checking the tyres before they were fitted on to your car. At best you should either be regretting your mistake or the dealers, not the company's.
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Old 9th December 2009, 00:55   #22
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Nikhil/Ishan, I know I made a mistake in not checking the date before hand. So I am rectifying that mistake at my cost.

BTW, it will be very hard for me to stop worrying, I'll keep thinking about it as long as I have these old tyres. So, I'll just replace them and then enjoy.

A word of advice to new tyre buyers: Check the date before mounting the tyres, nobody else will do it for you.
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Old 9th December 2009, 01:02   #23
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Isin't that the job of the dealer to check that? At least he should get the customer all 4 tires from the same batch.
This is India, our/my India. The dealers job is to make profit, not give you sound technical advise! Most of them are not even technically literate. Of course you as a consumer want it to be an ideal situation but it is not happening. Let me give you a prime example. My car came with 175/65 R14 tubed tyres. I wanted wider Michelin XM1+ tubeless. This nice dealer gave me 185/65 R14 Michelin XM1+.

PS: I wouldn't try to decipher the manufacture date tomorrow lest.... Moral of the story: arm yourself.
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Old 9th December 2009, 01:09   #24
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Sharath - I would still say, run them for a week without the prejudice in your mind. You might find there is no difference or cause for worry.

Else, if nothing works, the financial loss remains the same even after a week or two.
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Old 9th December 2009, 01:37   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aka_iitd View Post
May be off topic
Two tyres were 2308 - means June 2008
Three tyres were 2109 - means May 2009

From above I think first two digits means week and last two digit means year. Am I correct
Is it followed by all companies

I remember some follow ABCD.. along with year and some follow circle with dots around circumference or circle divided in 4 quadrant and each quadrant is 3 months
Yes, ittd the derivation is 100% correct. Nowadays I've seen this with many brands but can't comment if all follow the same.
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Old 9th December 2009, 09:48   #26
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Sharath - I would still say, run them for a week without the prejudice in your mind. You might find there is no difference or cause for worry.
You and I, both know that no difference can be made out by driving it for a week. However, it is going to bug me forever.

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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Oh now now, let's not blow this out of proportion! Knowing how the companies work here, I can assure you no one has the time to see what tyres to send to what dealer depending on the size of the dealer or the locality! You're just exaggerating and making up theories to that effect.

If the regional Michelin godown has say lets say 100 tyres of the LTX2 lying around (a very reasonable figure) do you really think Michelin officials have the time to especially pry out 2 tyres of the old batch to send to you because its going to a small town dealer? Why not send all 4 of the old batch if its a small town? That's just conspiracy theories and you know it.
Ishan, I happen to be a little familiar with inventory management and ERP system. An efficient inventory system would keep track of every item in the inventory, generally they send out the oldest item out first. Therefore, I am unable to understand how 18 month of tyres were sitting around in a depot that sends out 100s of tyres everyday. But then I don't know anything about how Michelin depot is managed, may be they are as disorganised as you describe, they probably don't keep track of their inventory besides the number of the tyres. What else can explain the mixing of old and new stock?

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Samurai says his tyres look dirty. Nothing a little tyre polish and some effort cant solve.

....

I can guarantee you if the tyres are polished well, no one will know the difference until they actually look at the date of manufacture of the tyre.
You are right about the cleaning up part. With a good cleanup job, any old tyre no matter how they were stored, can look new. Today when I went down to look at the tyres in daylight, I couldn't make out which is which. Everything looked clean. After few seconds of puzzlement, I realised what happened. The car cleaning crew who washed the car in the evening, had done a stellar job with it. If the tyres were delivered like this in the first place, I would have never bothered to check the dates.

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
If Samurai was in the US/EU also, he wouldnt have had a choice.
Hmm, don't jump to such conclusions. Since I used to be in US for nearly a decade, I can tell you how they would have handled it. The moment I complain, they would have replaced it without question and earned my ever lasting praise and loyalty. They would not have taken shelter behind their policy for saving couple hundred dollars. I have had so many wonderful customer service experiences in US where the vendor put customer satisfaction first. There were bad experiences too, but they were mostly exceptions created by the individual rather than company policy.
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Old 9th December 2009, 09:57   #27
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
A word of advice to new tyre buyers: Check the date before mounting the tyres, nobody else will do it for you.
Can we add this as sticky note in this section. May be in this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-your-car.html (READ FIRST: Choosing The Right Set Of Tyres for your Car)


@ Samurai: Hope you will insist for tyres from same lot i.e. 2109. And when you get two new tyres, please photograph those for 'dominant colour' theme. That way, you will not only enjoy new michelin tyres but also enjoy your photography pursuits . Hope this comment doesn't disturb your peace of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aka_iitd View Post
May be off topic
Two tyres were 2308 - means June 2008
Three tyres were 2109 - means May 2009

From above I think first two digits means week and last two digit means year. Am I correct Is it followed by all companies

I remember some follow ABCD.. along with year and some follow circle with dots around circumference or circle divided in 4 quadrant and each quadrant is 3 months

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk13 View Post
Yes, ittd the derivation is 100% correct. Nowadays I've seen this with many brands but can't comment if all follow the same.
@ aka_iitd & tsk13: Read about DOT code from this thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-your-car.html (READ FIRST: Choosing The Right Set Of Tyres for your Car)
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Old 9th December 2009, 10:08   #28
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post

I suggest, you stop getting so technical. Put it out of your mind and just enjoy the tyres. We TBHPians have this tendency to become too technical and we dont see the real situation. Given your usage Samurai, I predict the tyres will wear out in less than three years.
I agree. I recently installed new Geolandars on my Gypsy and the 205 size is not that common, so the Japanese made tyres I was able to procure from the local dealer, in the size, are made in mid 2008. I had seen that before installing them, but went ahead anyway. Given the import logistics, some of the slower moving tyres that are imported will not be as "fresh" as one may like. All things considered, I went ahead with the install, and I have no regrets. I will be replacing them after 4-5 years anyway, within the recommended total 6 years life for the rubber.
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Old 9th December 2009, 10:29   #29
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Sawyer, in your case, they are rare size tyres, and all were old, and you had seen the dates before installing and accepted them. So no issues.

In my case, 235/70R16 is the OE size for Safari & Scorpio. And the LTX AT2 is available in only this size in India, and they are the only all-terrain tyre offered by Michelin in India. Hard to believe they are slow moving tyres. Plus they mixed old and new tyres while giving me a set. I am not accepting it, and will change it at my cost.
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Old 9th December 2009, 10:49   #30
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Hey Samurai,
My suggestion, do not worry about it too much.
You anyway have 3 years of warranty. Use it till then, and if you still want to change it, then go ahead, after 3 years. My guess, you would've used its money worth by then completely. A well stored tyre which is 1.5 years old is the same as a badly stored tyre which is 6 months old. So, chill out and get that off your head Samurai. But if it still worries you, then go ahead and get new ones. If you can get peace of mind for a few thousands, why not!
Cheers and wishing you good luck.
Deepak
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