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Old 24th February 2010, 15:52   #31
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Informative thread nikhil. I have a few doubts regarding Rotation.
My swift D has done around 4500Kms after putting up ES-100 195/60/15. I am soon visiting tyre dealer for alignment and balancing. How are they going to rotate ? Cross rotation ? or Parallel Rotation ? What should be the ideal rotation ? I got set of 4 alloys. so spare is OEM tyre.
My swift drag to left side even after alignment. thing happens after 500-1000 Kms. Problem was there even before put alloys. Somewhere on forum i read that many swifts facing this particular problem.
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Old 24th February 2010, 15:58   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupam00 View Post
The problem is mainly due to steering coloum rack & Bush.

Steering Coloum has a rack which is passed inside a bush.
The problem can be rectified by getting the steering overhaul or It is more advisable to get the complete steering changed,altough it cost more but last more at the same time.

+ Also get balancing performed for your car.

First Try Balancing if it is a minor balancing issue it would be resolved
If Not get the steering work done.

Also kindly let us know how much is your car driven in KMS.

Thanks
Thanks Anupam. I got the steering rack replaced recently by Ford and my car is under an year old with 16K KMs on the ODO
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Old 24th February 2010, 16:02   #33
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
Thanks Anupam. I got the steering rack replaced recently by Ford and my car is under an year old with 16K KMs on the ODO

Is the problem rectified now?

If not than ask then to replace the complete Steering Coloum & after the problem would be rectified.

Check the Balancing as well.
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Old 24th February 2010, 16:12   #34
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Sure Anupam. Thanks again! I am getting sick and tired with this ordeal!
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Old 24th February 2010, 23:20   #35
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Woah!! Overload of questions! Will answer in detail tomorrow!
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Old 24th February 2010, 23:53   #36
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Oops.... I was mistaken. All cars do have Positive camber. Not negative. However, Negative camber aids in handling. But Positive camber makes the steering easy to handle.

Most cars to be used in the city have positive camber. Only race cars I guess have minor negative camber. And that too not all race cars.
one thing is correct. Race cars do have negative chamber.
race cars involved in circuit racing that is.

Racing in ovals (nascar), requires the inside wheel to have positive chamber while the outside wheel has negative chamber.

Coming to road cars, i dont think any car will have positive chamber.
all cars will run a negative chamber, but a very slight one at that.

I am in a hurry right now, but i will explain the effects of chamber on this thread in a day or two

Last edited by jalsa777 : 24th February 2010 at 23:56.
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Old 27th February 2010, 00:40   #37
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Hey Nikhil,

Great Thread from the tyre Guru!!

I have an issue too. In my Zen (Old Model,MPFI, Non-power steering), every time I reach around the 100 kmph mark there is a very evident and irritating vibration in the whole steering column and then eventually as I maintain anything 100+ its vibrates the whole car.

Is this a WA issue or WB? I dont see any uneven tyre wear, but I have no trained eye to spot this either.

I got the WA and WB done at Tyre Empire (whitefield) and i have alloy wheels with 165/65 R13 XM1's.

Could you help me with resolving this issue once and for all please . I can visit your place if required as i'm in bangy itself. I can PM you my number.

Thanks a lot,
Zenster
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Old 27th February 2010, 14:08   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
My Ford Ikon has done almost 50K in about 5.5 years and I am still using the original MRF ZVTS tyres that came with it. Now for the past year or so the suspension/shocks (I dont really know what) have been making creaking sounds everytime the car goes over speed breakers or potholes. There is also a slight pull towards the right. I have recently noticed that the right front has worn out a lot more than the front left. The wear is totally even and not prominent at any particualr place on the tyre. Is is due to a wheel allignment or a balancing issue? I have never done either of them before.
Now I am thinking of getting new tyres for the front and get a suspension overhaul to take care of all the creakings and sounds. Now is there anything in particular order that I should do?

Thanks in advance.
Get the alignment checked. Then let us know what happens. Could be an alignment issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick1977 View Post
Nikhil ---> The steering in the Indica Vista does not self centre. Is this a problem with the caster?
I discussed this with the *** but they refuted my claim & said that the problem was something else. No further explanations.
It could be. Or maybe the car was designed like that! I dont know much about the Indica Vista.

@Anachronix --- The steering vibrating when you touch the brakes seems to be a brake pad issue.

The other thing seems to be a balancing issue. Doesnt seem to be alignment related. Get the pads checked and the balancing checked as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Nice report Nikhil. Here are few questions that come to our mind. It would be nice if you can clarify -

1. WA - Is there a way to trick the system to show all the readings are within tolerance limits. I ask you this because it may be easier for mechanics to trick the system and take out an OK report than to correct the Toe or camber for example.

2. WA - I hear that WA of only front wheels are sufficient for all Front wheel drives. Is this true? If yes then why do we have rear wheel instruments.

3. WB - is there a max limit of weights that can be used on a wheel during balancing without affecting either the car or the drive.

Would appreciate your responses on the above.
1). Not that I know of. What can happen sometimes is the technician fixes the suspension to the correct specs. He then clicks on save and takes the printed report. After this, he tightens the bolts on the suspension.

Sometimes, this could result in a slight pull or cross steering. Not always though.

2). It's not got anything to do with FWD or RWD. Most cars have only adjustable toe for the front. However, the Baleno has an independant rear suspension and we can set the Camber and Toe on the rear as well. Earlier Mercs had this as well.

Today, even though Mercs are still RWD, they dont come with too many options for the rear suspension. It still is mainly centred on the Front.

We use the instruments on the rear wheels to make sure there is no dog-tracking.

Even if the rear wheels cannot be aligned, we need to measure the front wheels WRT to the rear.

Please see my first post and check out the hunter link I have posted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nisarg86 View Post
Informative thread nikhil. I have a few doubts regarding Rotation.
My swift D has done around 4500Kms after putting up ES-100 195/60/15. I am soon visiting tyre dealer for alignment and balancing. How are they going to rotate ? Cross rotation ? or Parallel Rotation ? What should be the ideal rotation ? I got set of 4 alloys. so spare is OEM tyre.
My swift drag to left side even after alignment. thing happens after 500-1000 Kms. Problem was there even before put alloys. Somewhere on forum i read that many swifts facing this particular problem.
You cant do cross rotation because the tyre running on the right side cannot be shifted to the left. If you do, the direction of the tyre will be wrong.

So, my suggestion is a simple front to back rotation keeping the tyres on the same side of the car.

Do only 4 wheel rotation.

If your car starts dragging to one side in spite of perfect alignment, get the suspension checked, air pressure, tyre wear also.

And yes, even I've heard of this Swift pulling problem but I dont think it's too obvious in most cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenster View Post
Hey Nikhil,

Great Thread from the tyre Guru!!

I have an issue too. In my Zen (Old Model,MPFI, Non-power steering), every time I reach around the 100 kmph mark there is a very evident and irritating vibration in the whole steering column and then eventually as I maintain anything 100+ its vibrates the whole car.

Is this a WA issue or WB? I dont see any uneven tyre wear, but I have no trained eye to spot this either.

I got the WA and WB done at Tyre Empire (whitefield) and i have alloy wheels with 165/65 R13 XM1's.

Could you help me with resolving this issue once and for all please . I can visit your place if required as i'm in bangy itself. I can PM you my number.

Thanks a lot,
Zenster
It definitely seems to be a Wheel Balancing problem. It could also be a bent rim, worn out tyre or in a worst case, some suspension issue.

However, since you have alloy wheels, I can almost rule out bent rim.

I will try my best to help you.
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Old 27th February 2010, 15:09   #39
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Thanx Nikhil for clearing up my doubts. will post it up about dragging after alignments and balancing.
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Old 2nd March 2010, 11:22   #40
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Thanks a lot Nikhil for your help. Will keep everyone posted.
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Old 11th March 2010, 20:43   #41
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Hello all,
I am not sure if this is an alignment issue but is a major concern to me. Ever since I got my Zen from service i hear a sort of 'rat-at-at-at-at-at' sound every time I make a hard right, like a U-turn for instance. This happens only when I am turning right. Left is perfect. When I leave my hands off the wheel, I notice the Zen going right. This is bothering me a lot as I suspect the service guys may have played around with something. Before the last service, my previous one was 5,000km ago. Also, my front right wheel cap is making contact with the steel part of the tyre and this results ion a very annoying squeak sound as I drive by. So much so that I have removed the wheel cap. Could someone please help answer all the queries listed here?
@ MODS: If you feel this post is in the incorrect thread, kindly move it to the appropriate one. Sorry!

Thanks,
Rohan
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Old 11th March 2010, 23:34   #42
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It seems to be a suspension issue. Please get the suspension checked.

And wheel cap touching the steel of the tyre? I didnt understand this. Could oyu post a pic?
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Old 12th March 2010, 00:00   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARKled View Post
My Ford Ikon has done almost 50K in about 5.5 years...
... I have never done either of them before.
That's unusual. It's better to get these checked from time to time - depending upon the type of usage/run you have. But once in 10-12K kms, I feel.
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Old 12th March 2010, 19:45   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
It seems to be a suspension issue. Please get the suspension checked.

And wheel cap touching the steel of the tyre? I didnt understand this. Could oyu post a pic?
Hi Nikhil, thanks for the advice. Apologies for framing that sentence in a wrong way. Its ok, i rectified it by swapping my wheel covers around (left one went to the right and vice versa). But as for the sound, its still there. I shall go and get the suspension checked first thing tomorrow.
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Old 12th March 2010, 23:27   #45
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All right. today i did the alignment of my vdi. Dealer didn't rotate the tyres. he said Rotation is not required right now as all tyres looks fine. we will do it at next 5K alignment job. I am attaching the job sheet data.
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Everything about Wheel Alignment: Post your queries here-img00011201003122315.jpg  

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