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Old 2nd July 2010, 20:54   #1
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Angry Yoko S-Drives - delicate but good performer

For those of you who don’t know, I changed the tyres of my Mitsubishi Cedia about 9,500 kms back (in February 2010) to Yokohama S-Drives 205/55/R15. Here is the link for that http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1720206-post45.html

Although the overall grip and braking improved compared to the stock Bridgestones, since last 2k kms, I started to get a lot of humming noise inside the car. I went to Asian Motors about 1.5k kms back to get the car checked as I thought one of the car’s wheel bearing may have gone kaput. After inspection I was told that all the wheel bearings were fine and it was the increased tyre noise that is being filtered inside the car. They also checked the complete suspension and reported no problem.

Since, I go along well with the guys at Asian Motors, they fitted my car with a test drive cedia’s stock tyres to confirm that it is the tyre noise being filtered inside my car. I went in for a test drive and there was minimal tyre noise (the noise which is very usual with the stock Bridgestones). The tyre noise of my Yokohama’s would be atleast 10 times more than the Bridgestones. It was such that in the first instance I could actually hear no noise with the Bridgestones. The Yokohamas on the other hand, irritate me to the extent that I always have to listen to music at high volumes to avoid the humming noise.

Furthermore, the trouble was not over yet, while fitting back the Yokohamas on my cedia, the mechanic reported a bump on the side wall of the left front tyre. We inspected the tyre but couldn’t see any mark on it having hit a road bump.

I went to tyre shop where I got the tyres fitted and even the shopkeeper couldn’t see any mark or a hit on the tyre apart from the bump. Therefore, he asked me to leave the tyre for it to be sent to the company for replacement. I was told that people at Yokohama take time and I shall get a new tyre if approved in about a week. I went back after about 8 days and was told that the company has found the tyre to be pinched and may not replace it. But the shopkeeper still asked for 2 more days time and said that he may be able to get it replaced under good will.

Today, I again went to the shop and was told that my claim has been rejected and I will get the report in another couple of days and for now I can take my tyre back. I asked for the phone number of the inspector and was very kindly handed over the same by the shopkeeper.

I called up Mr. Kulwinder (the inspector) at Yokohama regarding the tyre and was told that the tyre may have hit a bump and it is not a manufacturing fault. Although, I do know that most tyre companies do have such policies but I don’t remember to have landed at any bump at speed that can damage the tyre. Also, I argued that I was not given any disclaimer along with the tyres stating that the tyres only need to be driven on good roads. To this Mr. Kulwinder replied that these tyres are perfectly fine for Indian roads and it’s the driving style that affects the tyres and I may have hit a bump at speed and that caused the tyre to go Kaput. Thereafter when I reported of increased tyre noise since last 2 k kms, he replied that the bigger the tyres the more noise it will make (I thought, it’s the tyre compound that is responsible for the noise. I may be wrong).

Since, I work for an automotive research company, I told Mr Kulwinder that I shall take the matter higher up and I will also log a complaint in the consumer forum, he rudely replied that why am I telling all this to him, I may do whatever I want.

I changed four of my cedia’s tyres at 43k kms, all of which still had life of another 4-5 k kms. On the Bridgestones, I went to Amritsar, Dharamshala, Shimla, Jaipur and Agra, but never had any issues with the tyre.

I have driven the Yokohamas about 9.5k kms and more than a third of the thread has already gone off. I don’t think that they may last good for anything over another 15k kms. I have only been to karnal twice on the Yokohamas and the road atleast till Panipat it damn too good, so there is no chance of tyre going kaput on that road.

I feel cheated by Yokohama to provide me with tyres not suited for Indian road. Although, I do care about Rs. 5k I spent for each tyre, the more important concern is what if the tyre would have blasted at speed. No one including Yokohama would have taken responsibility for the same.

I would therefore advise Yokohama to either stand up to the warranty they provide on their products or shut their damn operations in India. If their tyres are meant to be driven only on good roads, a disclaimer stating the same should be put on the tyres. Lastly, please employ people who can at least listen to the customer grievances and reply politely. I was never rude with Mr. Kulwinder but the way he told me off was very disrespectful.

Thanks for reading.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 2nd July 2010 at 21:06.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 21:03   #2
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S-drives are known to be loud, aren't they?
Quote:
I thought, it’s the tyre compound that is responsible for the noise. I may be wrong
It's got to do with the tread design. Usually, directional patterns produce more noise.

Btw, whats the tyre size?
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Old 2nd July 2010, 21:04   #3
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Not sure what is going on with Yoko these days. I went with my friend for his Honday city tyre replacement. I made up mind for A-Drive. But Dealer who kep both suggested and insisted to go for XM1+ rather A-Drive. Not sure, may be bad *** impacting the sales or what ?
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Old 2nd July 2010, 21:13   #4
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Please find my replies in bold
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
S-drives are known to be loud, aren't they?

The tyre noise has gone up dramatically since last 2k kms. It wasnt that loud earlier when I bought them. I could acually see (or hear I shoud say) the noise increase after 6 to 7k kms. I thought it may be because of rubber going hard after being driven...?

It's got to do with the tread design. Usually, directional patterns produce more noise.

ya, thats exactly what the Mitsubishi guy told me but even he was astonished to hear such road noise.

Btw, whats the tyre size?

its 205/55/R15
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Originally Posted by sam003 View Post
Not sure what is going on with Yoko these days. I went with my friend for his Honday city tyre replacement. I made up mind for A-Drive. But Dealer who kep both suggested and insisted to go for XM1+ rather A-Drive. Not sure, may be bad *** impacting the sales or what ?
May be, I have seen a lot of dealers not recommending the S-Drives.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 22:11   #5
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Gaurav, your's is single experience but it won't be right to stereotype the entire Yokohama range, atleast I don't expect such things from BHPians. The same thing happened with Michelins once and now it's Yoko's turn, please refrain from stereotyping.

Sam, XM1+ are better than A.Drive owing to a better pattern, I selected the former for my uncle's Xing. Santro's upsize 165/65 R13 in A.Drive's had Bubble issues sometime back but I think it has been resolved. I've used Yokohama A539 175/60 R13 on my Xing for about 10k Kms in a span of one year without any issues, the road noise is even less than Michelin XM1 (not +) on my uncle's ANHC and Acelers on my i20.

I'm awaiting Nikhil's take on this, his review seems to be the most logical.

Last edited by tsk13 : 2nd July 2010 at 22:19.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 22:25   #6
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Originally Posted by tsk13 View Post
Gaurav, your's is single experience but it won't be right to stereotype the entire Yokohama range, atleast I don't expect such things from BHPians. The same thing happened with Michelins once and now it's Yoko's turn.

I'm awaiting Nikhil's take on this, his review seems to be the most logical.
tsk, I dont not intend to stereotype the entire Yokohama range. The Yoko advans come as stock tyres on Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X in many parts of the world and I am sure Mitsubishi knows whats the right tyre for their car.

Manufacturing defect can be with any product but accepting it and putting it right is what matters the most.

I believe in my case, the tyre compound has gone hard too early (at around 7k kms). My running may be high but humming noise on tyres that have only done 9.5k kms is too early.

I paid 19k for the set of 4 Yokohamas, I dont know about others but mine certainly was very hard eaned money which I believe has gone down the drain!

Nothing specific to you or to anyone else. Just that I feel cheated.

Also I would definitely look up for Nikhil's reviews.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 2nd July 2010 at 22:31.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 23:38   #7
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By the way, whose the dealer in concern?

By the way I've number of one Mr. Sanjay Chatterjee who happens to be in the Marketing/ Sales of Yoko India, +91 9871099883. Do let him know of this thread at Team BHP and how TBHP has been influential in driving Yoko's sales among enthusiasts. In case of genuine complaints, it should be rectified at any cost.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 23:51   #8
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1). Sanjay Chatterjee is extremely aware of TBHP. He is a close friend of one of the senior TBHPians.

2). Gaurav says he doesnt remember hitting any pothole. That is the crucial part. You simply CANNOT recall each and every pothole you drove over.

Unfortunately, no imported tyre can be driven like MRF/Apollos/Bridgestones on our roads. YOu have to take care. Saying things like, "I didnt know Yoko has to be driven only on good roads" is kinda pointless.

S drives are relatively high performance tyres. They do have a softer compound and a softer sidewall. They are more prone to damage on our Indian roads. If you hit a pothole at some time and the tyre develops a bulge, you CANNOT blame the manufacturer.

Think about this, what if you go bang your Cedia into a big divider that you couldnt see at night? Will you go about blaming Mitsubishi for making a car whose bumper couldnt withstand a hit to the divider?

The problem with tyres is that they are out of sight for most people. Which is why they are the most abused and ignored component of oyur car.

3). Tyre noise: Most high performance tyres are noisy. Compare the XM1+ with the PP2. COmpare the Yoko Advan Neovas with the DB V550. Compare the Bridgestone GIII with the Turanza ER60. You cannot complain about that.

The only thing is, you could have done your research better. Yoko S Drives are known to be quite noisy.

I havent seen the tyre. So I CANNOT say anything for sure. But my opinion is this.

This is NOT a manufacturing defect. Yokohama has no obligation to replace it.

I can completely sympathise with you, Gaurav. It is after all YOUR hard earned money which is going down the drain, but if you really HAVE to blame someone it is the govt who maintains your roads. Very honestly. How many people have met with accidents due to the govt carelessness on the highways or in the cities? Do they have a right to blame the car manufacturer for not making a car like the Ambassador?

And how do oyu define that the tyre compound has gone hard? I dont think that is true. You might just be feeling it. And dont compare tyre life with the Bridgestones. The BS are built to last. They dont offer much grip, but they last for a long time. If it was life you were looking for, you shouldnt have gone for the S Drives.

Also, see it this way. The tyre DIDNT blow up at a high speed. Give credit to the quality of the tyre there.

In any case, one area in which you have my outright support is the reaction of the Yoko representative. If he really did speak to you that rudely, it's not done. You should speak to the higher ups in the company if only to report this.

Please understand this. I can completely understand how bad you must be feeling. But it's not fair on your part to just find a scapegoat in Yokohama.

I'm sure as a TBHPian, you knew before you bought the tyres that the S Drives are high performance tyres and will have a shorter tyre life and a softer sidewall. All of us enthusiasts who buy performance tyres take that risk. Unfortunately, sometimes it backfires. Like in your case.

Edit: In any case, you dont need ot take my word for it. Speak to the company and ask them to EXPLAIN why they rejecting your claim. Ask them to show oyu the spot where the damage has occurred. Almost always there is a telltale mark on the inside of the tyre. This will prove their claim that it is due to an external damage.

Last edited by Nikhilb2008 : 2nd July 2010 at 23:55.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 00:32   #9
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Nikhil, thanks for the details you provided as being a Yoko owner myself, this thread is sentimental . Let Yoko do the talking now, do contact them for a proper explanation Gaurav.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 00:38   #10
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Thanks for the input Nikhil. Please find my replies in Bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
1). Sanjay Chatterjee is extremely aware of TBHP. He is a close friend of one of the senior TBHPians.

2). Gaurav says he doesnt remember hitting any pothole. That is the crucial part. You simply CANNOT recall each and every pothole you drove over.

Certainly, I dont remember each and every pothole I have gone over but please note I travel 90+ kms every day on same stretch and have been doing so since last one and a half year, so I know where the bad patches lie. Moreso there no worse patch, there may be uneven road but not bad patches. Also I have driven well over 100,000kms in and around delhi in last 8 years and I do know what can and cannot impact my car. SO, when I was so precise writing it, I knew what I was writing. when I suddenly hit a pothole that is tooo bad to break my alloy or damage my tyre, I do remember it. normal uneven patches wont harm the tyre in that sense.

Unfortunately, no imported tyre can be driven like MRF/Apollos/Bridgestones on our roads. YOu have to take care. Saying things like, "I didnt know Yoko has to be driven only on good roads" is kinda pointless.

S drives are relatively high performance tyres. They do have a softer compound and a softer sidewall. They are more prone to damage on our Indian roads. If you hit a pothole at some time and the tyre develops a bulge, you CANNOT blame the manufacturer.

Think about this, what if you go bang your Cedia into a big divider that you couldnt see at night? Will you go about blaming Mitsubishi for making a car whose bumper couldnt withstand a hit to the divider?

If you go through the post when I replaced my bridgestones, I clearly mentioned that I did some serious offroading which damaged my car's tyre, I never did that after I got the Yokos. Also, since I got Yokos, I was very careful driving them over the bad patches.

My cousin's lancer is running on Kumho's for last 70k kms (this is the second set), we have never had problem, my cousin's cedia is running on Good year eagles, again never had problems. But then, a friend of mine who has advans on his 5 series did have the same problem.

The problem with tyres is that they are out of sight for most people. Which is why they are the most abused and ignored component of oyur car.

3). Tyre noise: Most high performance tyres are noisy. Compare the XM1+ with the PP2. COmpare the Yoko Advan Neovas with the DB V550. Compare the Bridgestone GIII with the Turanza ER60. You cannot complain about that.

I do agree that performance tyres are noisy but do they get more noisy after 6-7k kms. I didnt have any problem with the tyres for initial 6-7k kms.

The only thing is, you could have done your research better. Yoko S Drives are known to be quite noisy.

I did my research and I dont have any problem if the tyres last for 25-30k kms but a lot more than normal noise is being filtered inside the car. Its not that I havent sit in cars with performance tyres. I have myself driven the 320d for a number of times and have sit in 5 for a couple of ties but I didnt hear any abnormal noise.

I havent seen the tyre. So I CANNOT say anything for sure. But my opinion is this.

This is NOT a manufacturing defect. Yokohama has no obligation to replace it.

ok, one tyre going kaput is still ok but what about the abnormal tyre noise being filtered inside the car. Trust me Nikhil , its not a normal sound.

I can completely sympathise with you, Gaurav. It is after all YOUR hard earned money which is going down the drain, but if you really HAVE to blame someone it is the govt who maintains your roads. Very honestly. How many people have met with accidents due to the govt carelessness on the highways or in the cities? Do they have a right to blame the car manufacturer for not making a car like the Ambassador?

Look Nikhil, I am blaming Yokohama because the tyres became noisier all of a sudden, had they been noiser from day one or may be after 500 or 1 k kms, I would have got it, but whats reason for them to go noisier after 6-7k kms and that too to the extent that I have to hear to loud music to avoid the noise.

And how do oyu define that the tyre compound has gone hard? I dont think that is true. You might just be feeling it. And dont compare tyre life with the Bridgestones. The BS are built to last. They dont offer much grip, but they last for a long time. If it was life you were looking for, you shouldnt have gone for the S Drives.

I am not comparing the life span. I may be feeling about the compound gone hard because of noise but I may be wrong here.

Also, see it this way. The tyre DIDNT blow up at a high speed. Give credit to the quality of the tyre there.

In any case, one area in which you have my outright support is the reaction of the Yoko representative. If he really did speak to you that rudely, it's not done. You should speak to the higher ups in the company if only to report this.

Please understand this. I can completely understand how bad you must be feeling. But it's not fair on your part to just find a scapegoat in Yokohama.

I again state that I am not one of those who just write anything on the forum for a brand, I myself backed yokohama, the way you are right now but the tyres disappointed me big time mate.

I'm sure as a TBHPian, you knew before you bought the tyres that the S Drives are high performance tyres and will have a shorter tyre life and a softer sidewall. All of us enthusiasts who buy performance tyres take that risk. Unfortunately, sometimes it backfires. Like in your case.

certainly, I only had 30k in my mind when I bought them but humming noise that confuses you to the noise of wheel bearings must be too loud, hope you understand that and loud to the extent that a senior engineer at mitsubishi who has driven numerous lancers and cedias with performance tyres was astonished by the tyre noise.


Edit: In any case, you dont need ot take my word for it. Speak to the company and ask them to EXPLAIN why they rejecting your claim. Ask them to show oyu the spot where the damage has occurred. Almost always there is a telltale mark on the inside of the tyre. This will prove their claim that it is due to an external damage.

I do take your word Nikhil, I dont have anything against you or any one else on this community but had you been in Delhi, I would have certainly asked you to drive my car and then may be you accept what I say.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 3rd July 2010 at 00:45.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 14:57   #11
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I have S.Drives on my Getz CRDi (195/55 R15), and they do get louder with age - this is known (atleast I knew they would open up loud before I paid for them). I have run 22,000 KM on my set, and I can see them last atleast another 10 - 15k easily. They have been through bad roads, no roads, highways, pretty high speeds too (~180 KMPH), and they came out pretty good. I rotate my tyres every 5000 KM, along with alignment and balancing.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 15:23   #12
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actually i planed to either get a A drive or an S drive for my i10. Now on seeing this problem, i would need suggestion from you guys on which set of tyres are best suited if i want to cut out on the cabin noise. I want grip, stablity @ high speeds and less noise. I dunt mind if it lasts only for 25-30K which I am perfectly OK with!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 15:28   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
I have S.Drives on my Getz CRDi (195/55 R15), and they do get louder with age - this is known (atleast I knew they would open up loud before I paid for them). I have run 22,000 KM on my set, and I can see them last atleast another 10 - 15k easily. They have been through bad roads, no roads, highways, pretty high speeds too (~180 KMPH), and they came out pretty good. I rotate my tyres every 5000 KM, along with alignment and balancing.
Thanks mate. I usually drive fast and have crossed double ton mark a couple of times. I have never complaint about the performance of the tyres, they are damn grippy and significantly improved handling and braking. However, I didnt know the fact that they will turn that loud with time. My initial 6-7k kms experience was too good and I was very impressed. But the noise kinda started irritating me a lot since last 2k kms. The tyres havent been through the bad roads but short 100 km Highway trips are normal.

I havent had balancing problem either, the wheels were balanced when I got the new tyres and alignment was checked at the same time and it was in place. I also got the wheels rotated some 4k kms back.

Anyways, thanks for replying, I am just praying that they dont get further loud with more kms. For now I am getting a new tyre and the tyre with the bulge goes into the boot!

Thanks again.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 3rd July 2010 at 15:35.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 15:51   #14
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By loud, if you mean as loud as a truck's tyre - then you are already there! They dont get any louder than that!!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 16:01   #15
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Warranties on almost all tires irrespective of brand or tire type are pretty much a joke, hardly ever one see's a person getting a claim from the tire manufacturer.
Its best to have a trusted dealer and to ensure that the tire's are not more than 5 months old in the worst case, as rubber ages with time so if a tire has not been used for a long period of time it is rather useless. My advice is not buy such tires even if you get them cheaper or at a discount.



Here's an article on tire guarantees & warranties

(Copied from Car Bibles Source: Car Bibles : The Wheel and Tyre Bible Page 2 of 4)


A Word on "guaranteed" tyres

When I moved to America, I noticed a lot of car tyre shops offering tyres with x,000 mile guarantees. It's not unusual to see 60,000 mile guarantees on tyres. It amazed me that anyone would be foolish enough to put a guarantee on a consumable product given that the life of the tyre is entirely dependent on the suspension geometry of the car it is being used on, the style of driving, the types of road, and the weather. Yet many manufacturers and dealers offer an unconditional* guarantee. There's the catch though. The '*' after the word "unconditional" takes you elsewhere on their information flyer, to the conditions attached to the unconditional guarantee. If you want to claim on that guarantee, typically you'll have to prove the tyres were inflated to the correct pressure all the time, prove they were rotated every 3000 miles, prove the suspension geometry of your car has always been 100%, prove you never drove over 80mph, prove you never left them parked in the baking hot sun or freezing cold ice, and prove you never drove on the freeways. Wording in the guarantee will be similar to:
"used in normal service on the vehicle on which they were originally fitted and in accordance with the maintenance recommendations and safety warnings contained in the attached owner's manual"

and

"The tyres have been rotated and inspected by a participating (tyre brand) tyre retailer every 7,500 miles, and the attached Mounting and Rotation Service Record has been fully completed and signed"

There will typically also be a long list of what isn't covered. For example:

Road hazard injury (e.g., a cut, snag, bruise, impact damage, or puncture), incorrect mounting of the tire, tire/wheel imbalance, or improper repair, misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation, overinflation or other abuse, uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the vehicle such as wheel misalignment, accident, fire, chemical corrosion, tire alteration, or vandalism, ozone or exposure to weather.

Given that you really can't prove any of this, the guarantee is, therefore, worthless because it is left wide open to interpretation by the dealer and/or manufacturer. For a good example, check out the Michelin warranty or guarantee, available on their website (PDF file).

Don't be taken in by this - it's a sales ploy and nothing more. Nobody - not even the manufacturers - can guarantee that their tyre won't de-laminate or catch a puncture the moment you leave the tyre shop. Buy your tyres based on reviews, recommendations, previous experience and the recommendation of friends. Do not buy one simply because of the guarantee.

Big-chain dealers vs. manufacturer warranties.

A reader pointed out to me that the dealer he worked for honoured tyre warranties in a no-fuss manner requiring simply the original receipt for when they were purchased and one small form to be filled out. They then typically used a pro-rated refund applied to the new tyre. For example if someone paid $100 for a tyre guaranteed for 60,000 miles and it was dead after 40,000, pro-rata the customer had 34% of the warranty mileage left in the tyre. They would either refund $34 (34% of $100) or apply it against the cost of a replacement. I suspect this no-fuss attitude is down to buying power. Large chain stores like CostCo or Sears will have far more clout with the manufacturers than you or I with our 4 tyres. After all they buy bulk in he hundreds if not thousands. For the consumer, it makes them look good because you get a fair trade. They can argue the toss with the manufacturers later, leveraging their position as a bulk buyer in the market to get the guarantees honoured.



Read more: Car Bibles : The Wheel and Tyre Bible Page 2 of 4
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