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Old 7th September 2010, 16:54   #16
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@vabs78- I am running S.Drives. And yes, they tram-line and aquaplane
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Old 7th September 2010, 17:30   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
I have noticed that the Michelins are very prone to side wall damage and tire buldge, don't know if this is due to erratic driving style or rubber compound not suitable for our Indian roads but the fact of the matter is that there are many complaints on this.
What you say may be true, but I would not generalize it just because of the state of roads here, any tire can get damaged if you are not careful.

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
One weird thing about advans is that they need a bit of heat in them to reach their max potential. For the record I've never managed to get a squeal out of them.
I didn't get this. What is relation with squealing?

Thanks for the feedback ph03n!x. S-Drives are out of equitation then.

Last edited by vabs78 : 7th September 2010 at 17:34. Reason: Got a thread comment while I was writing my responce. So thought to edit the same for accommodating in same comment.
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Old 7th September 2010, 18:05   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
EDIT: Just saw your post Hatari, isn't ES100 an older model than S-Drive? How is the experience as compared to PP2?
They still make the ES 100s, the S drive is a newer full fledged performance tyre though. I bought the ES 100s for 3750/- each

- To begin with they look smashing!
- A new set of ES 100 have more grip than 23k old PP2.
- One imp point though, due the tread pattern i have noticed a lot of tiny stone chips etc get embedded in between the tread

Overall a thumbs up from me!
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Old 7th September 2010, 19:00   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Tramlining depends more on the tyre compound/tread type than the width.
I don't believe I agree with this. I have personally experienced more tramlining on my currently running 205/55/R15 S-Drives as compared to my previous 195/60/R15 Goodyear F1s. Never experienced or noticed tramlining on my stock 165/80/R14 JKs.

Also check the link

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...line-more.html (Why do cars with low profile tyres tramline more?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ph03n!x View Post
@vabs78- I am running S.Drives. And yes, they tram-line and aquaplane
+1 to this

Quote:
Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
What you say may be true, but I would not generalize it just because of the state of roads here, any tire can get damaged if you are not careful.
Agreed. However, as mentioned before, Michelins seems to be more prone to this as compared to other tires.
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Old 7th September 2010, 20:36   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
I don't believe I agree with this. I have personally experienced more tramlining on my currently running 205/55/R15 S-Drives as compared to my previous 195/60/R15 Goodyear F1s. Never experienced or noticed tramlining on my stock 165/80/R14 JKs.

Also check the link

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...line-more.html (Why do cars with low profile tyres tramline more?)
Thanks for the link, but this thread doesn't have any conclusion. It seems that there is no single reason for tramlining. It could be because:
- Wider tires
- Stiffer sidewalls
- Lower profile
- Tire tread design
- Tire compound
- Incorrect caster angles
- Incorrect wheel offset
- all of the above

I think I will just have to change the tire and hope that tramlining reduces.
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Old 7th September 2010, 21:46   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
I don't believe I agree with this. I have personally experienced more tramlining on my currently running 205/55/R15 S-Drives as compared to my previous 195/60/R15 Goodyear F1s. Never experienced or noticed tramlining on my stock 165/80/R14 JKs.

Also check the link
My experience is exactly the opposite - my current advan neova hardly tramlines while the previous PP2 used to tramline all the time. Both are the same width so I'm inclined to believe the width has nothing to do with whether a tyre tramlines.

@vabs: What I meant is basically I've still not managed to lose grip from the advans under any condition. The PP2s used to squeal for mercy when I took sweeping corners at more than 120-130. These don't squeal under the same conditions even at 150+.

Also an interesting observation is that the steering was much heavier with the PP2 than the advan neovas. Not sure why!
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Old 8th September 2010, 13:35   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
Thanks for the link, but this thread doesn't have any conclusion. It seems that there is no single reason for tramlining. It could be because:
- Wider tires
- Stiffer sidewalls
- Lower profile
- Tire tread design
- Tire compound
- Incorrect caster angles
- Incorrect wheel offset
- all of the above

I think I will just have to change the tire and hope that tramlining reduces.
After reading the above, I am inclined to believe that the tread design of the tire is responsible for tramlining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
My experience is exactly the opposite - my current advan neova hardly tramlines while the previous PP2 used to tramline all the time. Both are the same width so I'm inclined to believe the width has nothing to do with whether a tyre tramlines.
The tread pattern of the Michelin PP2 vs that of the Yokohama Advan Neova are fairly different. The PP2 have more vertical grooves than that of the Neovas.

So could it be possible that a tire with more vertical groves tend to tramline more that a tire with less vertical grooves?
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Old 8th September 2010, 14:14   #23
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Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
Just found that Conti CPC2, Pirelli P6000 and Yoko AD07 are also available in 205/50-15 size. Today being Janmasthami, I will get the pricing information tomorrow.

Waiting for all your valuable suggestions.
I run 205/50-R15 CPC2 in my Elantra and i found them also to tram-line at speeds in excess of 110+ when the vehicle hits some uneven patch (especially in highway flyovers with uneven tar-top). The effect is not very strong to get you completely off-course at 110/120 but beyond that it becomes more and more difficult to make course corrections.
Other than this constraint the CPC2 are very good.

Last edited by n_mouli : 8th September 2010 at 14:20. Reason: correction
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Old 8th September 2010, 15:14   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
@vabs: What I meant is basically I've still not managed to lose grip from the advans under any condition. The PP2s used to squeal for mercy when I took sweeping corners at more than 120-130. These don't squeal under the same conditions even at 150+.

Also an interesting observation is that the steering was much heavier with the PP2 than the advan neovas. Not sure why!
My experience is also the same. I have also encountered squealing with PP2s in similar situations. And also steering is significantly heavier with PP2s but I was attributing that to the wider section width.

Have you had a chance to test advans in wet? Do they aquaplane more than PP2s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic View Post
So could it be possible that a tire with more vertical groves tend to tramline more that a tire with less vertical grooves?
This does make sense. Vertical grooves may be cause of tramlining.

AFAIK the vertical grooves are for preventing aquaplaning and offering better grip in wet. So this makes for a tread-off between tramlining and aquaplaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n_mouli View Post
I run 205/50-R15 CPC2 in my Elantra and i found them also to tram-line at speeds in excess of 110+ when the vehicle hits some uneven patch (especially in highway flyovers with uneven tar-top). The effect is not very strong to get you completely off-course at 110/120 but beyond that it becomes more and more difficult to make course corrections.
Other than this constraint the CPC2 are very good.
Thanks for the feedback on CPC2. This has furthered my dilemma.

Guys, can you please comment on the quotes that I have got? Do they seem reasonable? Please comment.
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Old 8th September 2010, 15:46   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
My experience is also the same. I have also encountered squealing with PP2s in similar situations. And also steering is significantly heavier with PP2s but I was attributing that to the wider section width.

Have you had a chance to test advans in wet? Do they aquaplane more than PP2s?



This does make sense. Vertical grooves may be cause of tramlining.

AFAIK the vertical grooves are for preventing aquaplaning and offering better grip in wet. So this makes for a tread-off between tramlining and aquaplaning.



Thanks for the feedback on CPC2. This has furthered my dilemma.

Guys, can you please comment on the quotes that I have got? Do they seem reasonable? Please comment.
No aquaplaning at all. You can drive as if there's no rain. There's hardly any loss of grip.

As I mentioned - the only downer is road noise and nothing else!
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Old 8th September 2010, 17:37   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post

Guys, can you please comment on the quotes that I have got? Do they seem reasonable? Please comment.
Nikhil may be the best person to validate the quote prices you got. I got my CPC2 for 5k per piece at the start of this year and after that the prices have gone up twice at least. So 6k quote you got may be close to correct.
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Old 8th September 2010, 20:38   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
Vertical grooves may be cause of tramlining.
According to this How-to-tramlining.pdf document tread design doesn't have impact on tramlining. But I still think that it should have an impact in someways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
No aquaplaning at all. You can drive as if there's no rain. There's hardly any loss of grip.

As I mentioned - the only downer is road noise and nothing else!
Thanks reignofchaos, so far based on all the feedback Advans seem to be the clear favorite but road noise is also a concern for me. Only other option I am still considering are the CPC2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n_mouli View Post
I got my CPC2 for 5k per piece at the start of this year and after that the prices have gone up twice at least. So 6k quote you got may be close to correct.
Thanks n_mouli, I will take it then that the prices are Ok.
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Old 8th September 2010, 22:18   #28
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Tram lining mostly happens due to the following reasons

1. Tire sidewall flexibility and sidewall height - Less absorption and the tire tread will transmit it to the rim thus steering the car.
2. Caster - It should be in the +ve , i.e suspension tilt should be towards the rear. Neutral (Vertical) or -ve caster ( forward tilt ) can also cause tramlining.
3. Steering play - the tramling wheel would steer without any movement of steering wheel. The drive will react to the side motion of the car and will tend over do causing a drifting movement.
4. Air pressure can also be an issue in some cases

Vab78

Try exploring the grey market for tires. Right now there's isn't much tire options available officially in 15" which would be better than PP2s except for the Neovas.
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Old 9th September 2010, 14:33   #29
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vaibhav,

I am really suprised to read that you would like to go with 205/50-15 size again.
Are you really comfortable with ride quality?
Myself and jayanth (ph03n!x) are planning to downsize because of harsh ride.
If you are happy with 15", better go with 195/55-15 size. I beleive this size is better suited for getz.

Jayanth, i seriously doubt whether our car's shock absorbers are of good quality or are sub-standard?

IMO - Tramlining occurs on almost all tyres and i have experienced this more in cars with wider+hard compound tyres. It also increases with age of the tyres as tyres tend to become harder.

Last edited by djay99 : 9th September 2010 at 14:40.
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Old 11th September 2010, 21:45   #30
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Originally Posted by djay99 View Post
I am really suprised to read that you would like to go with 205/50-15 size again.
Are you really comfortable with ride quality?
Myself and jayanth (ph03n!x) are planning to downsize because of harsh ride.
If you are happy with 15", better go with 195/55-15 size. I beleive this size is better suited for getz.
I am actually considering 195/55-15 size after TBhp recommendations. I am not too concerned about ride quality (I wouldn't have gone for performance oriented tires in first place). But I do have a problem with road noise.

I am planning to finalize tomorrow. Will keep you guys posted.
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