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Old 27th January 2011, 04:32   #1
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Smile Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

I am sick and tired by the constant punctures that I am having to deal with and I have decided to change the tyres and rims for my car. Details are as follows:

My car: Maruti Suzuki Wagon R LXi (2007 model)

Current tyres: Stock MRF 145/7O R13

I am thinking of upgrading to tubless tyres and alloy wheels as I read that tubeless tyres do not really go well with steel rims. Please advice about this too. I have done some homework and searched the forums but I haven't been able to get answers to my queries.

Some threads I saw are,
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...helin-xm1.html (Wagon-R owners who upgraded it with Michelin XM1?)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...michelins.html (WagonR Footwear upgraded to Plati Alloys + Michelins)

Tyres for Maruti WagonR LXi (2007 model) ? [Attn: Nikhil :P]

(The last one was created by me on another forum before I registered here.)

But I am still not able to decide what would be the correct upsize for my car as everyone suggests something different such as 155/65 R13, 155/70 R13, etc.

My questions are:

1. What brand of tyres should I buy? Everyone suggests Michelin Energy XM1+ but I am not able to source the same as a local tyre dealer in Gurgaon tells me Michelin has stopped production in India due to some ISI mark issues.

2. What brand of alloy wheels should I buy? Looking for something that is value for money. I do not need something jazzy and expensive for the heck of it. I would also like to know if its really required for me to go the alloy wheels way or I can survive using the steel rims on my car.

3. What size of tyres should I buy?

4. What size of alloy wheels should I buy?

Budget: I haven't set a budget but would want something really value for money and for the lower segment.

I am a total noob to all this. I would also like know if anybody knows any good shops in Gurgaon where I can find everything and get the changes done without worrying about it. Else I will probably head to BK Tyres in Lajpat nagar for the same.
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Old 27th January 2011, 11:07   #2
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick145 View Post
I am thinking of upgrading to tubless tyres and alloy wheels as I read that tubeless tyres do not really go well with steel rims. Please advice about this too. I have done some homework and searched the forums but I haven't been able to get answers to my queries.
That's not completely true. I have been running tubeless on stock steel rims for the last 2+ years. But you need to ensure that steel rims are rust and crack free. Else, air will escape or you'll again be faced with frequent punctures/valve cracks.

Having said that, alloys are better companions to tubeless tires and if budget permits, they should be your first choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick145 View Post
1. What brand of tyres should I buy? Everyone suggests Michelin Energy XM1+ but I am not able to source the same as a local tyre dealer in Gurgaon tells me Michelin has stopped production in India due to some ISI mark issues.
I dont think XM1+ have been phased out/withdrawn. Maybe tire gurus can shed more light?

Apollo Acelerez and Yoko A Drive would be good as well.
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Old 27th January 2011, 11:33   #3
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Wink Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

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Originally Posted by maverick145 View Post
. A local tyre dealer in Gurgaon tells me Michelin has stopped production in India due to some ISI mark issues.
Michelin never manufactured tyres in India to stop production Most of their tyres are imported from China or Thailand. The ISI issue the dealer talked of is the BIS marking being made mandatory to all tyres sold in India starting this year. It's just a matter of time before supplies resume as Michelin/Yokohama/Continental are in the process of getting BIS approvals and stamping done at the factories that they import tyres from.
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Old 27th January 2011, 15:25   #4
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

If you do lot of highway drive, stay away from alloys. Steel rims can take the beating well than Alloys and are easy to maintain.

If you are still interested, then alloys with 13" 5.5J size Aura alloys are really good and are made in India, sadly they are out of production.
You have to choose only from HR,Plati & EVO etc. All of them are Taiwan's made. Not sure about their reliability.

Best size of rubber is 155/65. It is the right and safe upgrade without any problem. The other size are low profile and would lead into suspension problems, drop in Mileage and doesn't suit our Indian road condition.

Michelin, Yokohama and Bridgestone are best tires. Yoko A-drive is VFM than Mic XM1+ and BS-GIII which are expensive about 500/- per tire.

Just my two cents.

Last edited by Ramsagar : 27th January 2011 at 16:00.
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Old 27th January 2011, 15:44   #5
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

You dont need alloys unless you want the 'looks'. All new cars these days come with tubless tyres and steel rims only. Only the top end models may have alloys.

If your current rims are not in top form go for new steel rims (would come at 700 odd bucks a piece) + Yoko A drives / Apollo Acceleres. 1 upsize from stock should do you well so go for either 155 or 165 on R13.
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Old 27th January 2011, 16:05   #6
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
That's not completely true. I have been running tubeless on stock steel rims for the last 2+ years. But you need to ensure that steel rims are rust and crack free. Else, air will escape or you'll again be faced with frequent punctures/valve cracks.

Having said that, alloys are better companions to tubeless tires and if budget permits, they should be your first choice.


I dont think XM1+ have been phased out/withdrawn. Maybe tire gurus can shed more light?

Apollo Acelerez and Yoko A Drive would be good as well.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think I am going to get new tubeless tires and may continue using my steel rims if they are in good condition. Else I will just buy new steel rims and new tires. This will save me some money and since its a 3.5 years old car now, I don't really think I should spend a fortune on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasavaTyres View Post
Michelin never manufactured tyres in India to stop production Most of their tyres are imported from China or Thailand. The ISI issue the dealer talked of is the BIS marking being made mandatory to all tyres sold in India starting this year. It's just a matter of time before supplies resume as Michelin/Yokohama/Continental are in the process of getting BIS approvals and stamping done at the factories that they import tyres from.
Ya this was the issue I think. But I will be needing the tires urgently so I think I will go for Yokohama if they are available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsagar View Post
If you do lot of highway drive, stay away from alloys. Steel rims can take the beating well than Alloys and are easy to maintain.
If you are still interested, then alloys with 13" 5.5J size and 155/65 rubber is the right and safe upgrade without any problem.
Michelin and Yokohama are best tires. Yoko A-drive is VFM than Mic XM1+ which are expensive about 500/- per tire.

Just my two cents.
Thanks for the detailed information. I do drive on the highways a lot but not on really good roads. I am just worried if the road condition will create any problems while using steel rims and tubeless tires.

Can you also give me a link of the Yokohama A-drive tires which you are suggesting? I am not able to really figure out which one they are from their website. And what would be the approximate price of these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigbarai View Post
You dont need alloys unless you want the 'looks'. All new cars these days come with tubless tyres and steel rims only. Only the top end models may have alloys.

If your current rims are not in top form go for new steel rims (would come at 700 odd bucks a piece) + Yoko A drives / Apollo Acceleres. 1 upsize from stock should do you well so go for either 155 or 165 on R13.
Thanks for the information. I am very happy reading your post and mostly I am going to buy new steel rims and tubeless tires instead of going for alloys.

Can you give me more details about which brand of steel rims are those which sell for Rs. 700/- a piece?
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Old 27th January 2011, 16:23   #7
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

@ maverick145:

Tubeless tyres go very well with steel rims, provided they are not rusted or deformed. I switched the tyres on my 2004 WagonR LXi to tubeless Apollo Aceleres on original steel rims last year, no issues till date. While buying the tyres, ask the dealer to confirm if your rims are good for tubeless tyres. He will check them and inform you. Even if they are not, you can always buy new steel rims at approx. 800 bucks a piece, the dealers keep these too. Go for alloys only if you want the "looks", and are willing to spend a sum equivalent to the cost of the tyres for the same.

Pointwise answers:

1. If budget is not a constraint, go for Michelin XM1+ or Yoko A-Drives. Be aware though, these are softer compound tyres which will not last as long as MRFs or JKs. They do give a very smooth and silent ride though. If you are on a budget, I would suggest the Apollo Aceleres. Tread pattern is similar to Michelin XM1+, smooth and silent ride. Pretty VFM too. I am very happy with the ones I bought.

2. As mentioned above, you can definitely carry on with steel rims. A good set of alloys will cost you about the same as a set of new tyres, expect to spend minimum 10K for them. If you are willing to spend on "looks" and hence want alloys, there are plenty of brands like Plati, HR, League etc.

3. The correct upsize for the WagonR is 155/65 R13. This is also the stock factory-fitted size on the VXi. Be aware though, these will cost about 20-25% more than the stock size you have right now. I bought 145/70 R13 Apollo Aceleres for 1950/- apiece, the same tyre in 155/65 R13 cost 2450/- at the time, which is why I chose to stick with the stock size and save money. After all, I could buy 5 stock 145-size tyres for the same price as 4 (upsized) 155-size ones. If budget is not a constraint, feel free to upsize.

4. I'm not sure, but I think the steel rims on the WagonR come in 4.5J (or 4.0J) size (width = 4 or 4.5 inches), I guess you can safely upgrade by an inch or so if you go for alloys, so 5.0J or 5.5J should be your best bet, provided you go for upsized tyres as well. The alloy dealer should be able to give you the right size alloys once you choose the tyres. Do keep an eye on the offset though, too much offset can make the wheels stick out too much, making the car look hideous.

- Bullitt.
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Old 27th January 2011, 16:37   #8
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

I checked again with a local dealer and sadly there is a shortage of Michelins XM1+ and Yokohama A-drives too :(

The dealer asked me if I wanted Bridgestones and he offered me these models for Bridgestone:

SR322 - Rs. 2750/-
ER60 Turanza - Rs. 2950/-

I am confused about what to do. I will find out about Apollo too in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
@ maverick145:

Tubeless tyres go very well with steel rims, provided they are not rusted or deformed. I switched the tyres on my 2004 WagonR LXi to tubeless Apollo Aceleres on original steel rims last year, no issues till date. While buying the tyres, ask the dealer to confirm if your rims are good for tubeless tyres. He will check them and inform you. Even if they are not, you can always buy new steel rims at approx. 800 bucks a piece, the dealers keep these too. Go for alloys only if you want the "looks", and are willing to spend a sum equivalent to the cost of the tyres for the same.

Pointwise answers:

1. If budget is not a constraint, go for Michelin XM1+ or Yoko A-Drives. Be aware though, these are softer compound tyres which will not last as long as MRFs or JKs. They do give a very smooth and silent ride though. If you are on a budget, I would suggest the Apollo Aceleres. Tread pattern is similar to Michelin XM1+, smooth and silent ride. Pretty VFM too. I am very happy with the ones I bought.

2. As mentioned above, you can definitely carry on with steel rims. A good set of alloys will cost you about the same as a set of new tyres, expect to spend minimum 10K for them. If you are willing to spend on "looks" and hence want alloys, there are plenty of brands like Plati, HR, League etc.

3. The correct upsize for the WagonR is 155/65 R13. This is also the stock factory-fitted size on the VXi. Be aware though, these will cost about 20-25% more than the stock size you have right now. I bought 145/70 R13 Apollo Aceleres for 1950/- apiece, the same tyre in 155/65 R13 cost 2450/- at the time, which is why I chose to stick with the stock size and save money. After all, I could buy 5 stock 145-size tyres for the same price as 4 (upsized) 155-size ones. If budget is not a constraint, feel free to upsize.

4. I'm not sure, but I think the steel rims on the WagonR come in 4.5J (or 4.0J) size (width = 4 or 4.5 inches), I guess you can safely upgrade by an inch or so if you go for alloys, so 5.0J or 5.5J should be your best bet, provided you go for upsized tyres as well. The alloy dealer should be able to give you the right size alloys once you choose the tyres. Do keep an eye on the offset though, too much offset can make the wheels stick out too much, making the car look hideous.

- Bullitt.
Thanks for the detailed reply to all my questions. I am not going for alloy wheels anymore and will stick to steel rims. I will buy new steel rims if my present ones aren't in a potent condition.

I am looking at 155/65 R13 tires now but as mentioned I am not getting the brands I want. I will search for Apollo now. The tires that you mentioned are Acelere or Acelere Sports?

And please help me decide between 145/70 R13 and 155/65/R13. I do not want to sacrifice my fuel economy and that is the most important thing for me. I do not mind paying a bit more for extra comfort and ride quality as long as my fuel economy is not hampered.
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Old 27th January 2011, 16:54   #9
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

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Originally Posted by maverick145 View Post
Thanks for the detailed information. I do drive on the highways a lot but not on really good roads. I am just worried if the road condition will create any problems while using steel rims and tubeless tires.

Can you also give me a link of the Yokohama A-drive tires which you are suggesting? I am not able to really figure out which one they are from their website. And what would be the approximate price of these?
Since you drive more on highways, you better go for hard compound tires.

Michelin XM1+: Soft tires,comfortable ride,Less noise, Prone to sidewall bulge, 3.1K per tire
Yokohama-A drive: Almost similar to Michelin. 2.5K per tire.
Bridegstone: More life, More noise, should say best for Indian condition and cost 3K per tire.(My choice)
MRF's: Also good and more reliable on par with BS-GIII.

Note: Price of tires may be + or - in hundreds.

145/70 R13: There wont be any change in FE and are as good as OE Tires. Then why you need an upgrade? Are your tires end of the life-cycle?
155/65/R13: Will be a drop of 1 or 2 Kms per liter but, handling corners and braking will improve due large footprint. Should say apt for your drives.

There is no proper site showing A-drive tread pattern. Just Googled and got this pic.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Ramsagar : 27th January 2011 at 17:14.
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Old 27th January 2011, 16:59   #10
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

I am not able to get Michelin or Yokohama tires here. The following tires are available here:

Bridgestone SR322 - Rs. 2750/-
Bridgestone ER60 Turanza - Rs. 2950/-

Apollo Acelere 155/65/R13 - Rs. 2500/-

I haven't checked MRF yet. Please advise if any of these are suitable for my requirements.
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Old 27th January 2011, 17:14   #11
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

If you want comfort and ride quality, avoid Bridgestone S322, they are similar to the stock MRFs and JKs in terms of ride and comfort. All these are hard compound tyres which have been manufactured keeping in view maximum life-span and fuel economy. This compromises the ride comfort and "silence" factor of these tyres, not to mention slightly lesser road grip.

The Turanza's might be slightly better than the S322's, I have no idea. However, Turanza's are only available in stock size (145/70 R13) and not the upsize 155/65 R13.

Upgrading from 145/70 to 155/65 will result in a marginal decrease in fuel economy due to the increased contact patch, but the change will be negligible, since it's only a 10mm change. Anything above that will have a significant impact on fuel economy.

Also, I feel another factor that affects fuel economy is that soft-compound tyres tend to "grip" the road better than hard-compound ones, thereby increasing rolling resistance. This might lead to a slight reduction in fuel economy. But I may be wrong. The tyre gurus may be able to throw more light on this.

Base your decision on all these factors. If you want to play it absolutely safe, stick to stock size 145/70 R13. You cannot go wrong there.

EDIT: Just read that you drive on "not-so-good" roads. In that case, stick to hard-compound or carbon-compound tyres. Avoid soft compound tyres. The Apollos are good, I say this from personal experience. If you are very particular about the fuel economy (I can empathize, looking at current petrol prices) stick to 145/70, else upgrade to 155/65. Based on your inputs, I recommend:

1. Apollo Acelere 145/70 (tubeless).
2. Bridgestone ER60 Turanza 145/70 (tubeless).
3. Apollo Acelere 155/65 (tubeless).

- Bullitt.

Last edited by Bullitt : 27th January 2011 at 17:22.
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Old 27th January 2011, 17:20   #12
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

@Ramsagar
The Bridgestone G III's are not available in 155/65 R13 or 145/70/R13 as per their website atleast.

@Bullit
So Apollo Acelere 145/70/R13 or 155/65/R13 it should be? The 145/70 R13's look nice if I can also get them for 1.9K or so. By the way, are the Acelere tires hard or soft ones?
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Old 27th January 2011, 17:32   #13
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

Apollo Aceleres are carbon compound, or "hard compound" tyres.

The Bridgestone G3 is available in 165/60 R13, which is a +2 upsize. Very sporty, but very noisy, and not exactly comfortable. I call them "enthusiast" tyres. Good for high-speed spirited driving on good roads. You will probably need alloys for these, though you could squeeze them onto your steel rims as well. Avoid if fuel economy and comfort is a concern.

EDIT: If Apollo Acelere 155/65 R13 costs 2500/-, then the same in 145/70 R13 will cost about 2000/- a piece.

Compare them with Turanzas in the same size and take your pick.

Last edited by Bullitt : 27th January 2011 at 17:37.
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Old 27th January 2011, 17:37   #14
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

Quote:
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Apollo Aceleres are carbon compound, or "hard compound" tyres.

The Bridgestone G3 is available in 165/60 R13, which is a +2 upsize. Very sporty, but very noisy, and not exactly comfortable. I call them "enthusiast" tyres. Good for high-speed spirited driving on good roads. You will probably need alloys for these, though you could squeeze them onto your steel rims as well. Avoid if fuel economy and comfort is a concern.

EDIT: If Apollo Acelere 155/65 R13 costs 2500/-, then the same in 145/70 R13 will cost about 2000/- a piece.
I am going for the Acelere tires mostly unless people advise otherwise. Thinking of 155/65/R13 I guess. Just want to a change from the stock size


Avoiding the Bridgestone G III's as fuel economy is a VERY big concern.

EDIT: The Turanza is also priced more than Acelere. So avoiding it too mostly unless it has some exceptional benefits or something.

Last edited by maverick145 : 27th January 2011 at 17:43.
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Old 27th January 2011, 17:51   #15
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Default Re: Budget Alloy wheels + tubeless tyres for Wagon R

BS Turanza is not available in 155/65, BS S322 is. But the Aceleres are definitely better than those as far as ride and comfort are concerned.

You contradict yourself when you say that fuel economy is a "very big concern", and yet you want to upsize to 155/65.

In any case, you have all the inputs. Go ahead and take your pick.
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