Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories > Tyre & Alloy wheel Section


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st March 2011, 17:27   #16
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,746
Thanked: 4,338 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
There is a little bit of space between the tube and the tire.
As the tires keep rotating the friction between the tube and the tire cause the air in between them to heat up.
Then again, this is what would happen in a tube-type tyre too. So why should the risk of overheating be more when using a tube in a tube-less tyre ?
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 19:04   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 487
Thanked: 110 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

In general, tubeless tires do not need tubes, and you do yourself a dis-service by using tubes with tubeless tires. Tubes reduce the flexibility of tubeless tires, thereby increasing rolling resistance. This then consumes a bit more energy to make it go, which will consume a bit more fuel. The worse part is that this extra energy is turned into heat in the tire, and tires don't like extra internal heat. This could shorten the life of the tire rather dramatically if you run it anywhere near it's maximum load or speed rating.
Tubeless tires have softer and more flexible sidewalls than tube-type tires (except for some very serious low profile autocross tires with steel reinforced sidewalls). Modern radials tend to squat under load and make the sidewalls bulge out a bit, This puts a larger footprint on the road, and the softer sidewall reduces rolling resistance, reduces heating, and improves fuel economy. When you install a tube in a tubeless tire you sort of defeat the advantages of the flexible sidewall, and the car will ride stiffer (more harsh on bumps).

On using tubes in tubeless tires, older tube type tires were nearly as smooth as a baby's bottom inside. Modern tubeless tires are not designed to have tubes, so there is very little attention paid to manufacturing them with a smooth interior. As such, you may expect to find a lot of raised molding marks on the inside, like a rectangular grid of small ridges. Tubes tend to squirm around inside of tires as they flex under load. The little rubber ridges inside the tubeless tire can eventually abrade the tube to cause stress cracks and pressure failure. If you will be using a tube, you would be well advised to run a power sander all around the inside of the tubeless tire to remove the molding flash and leave the inner surface as smooth as possible. And NEVER leave any manufacturer's stickers inside the tire if you will be using tubes.

It is a bad idea to put a tube into any tubeless tire. Tubeless tires have a considerably more robust construction than tube tires, which need the help of a tube of air to maintain sidewall stability and air pressure.
If we put a tube into a tubeless tire, there will be huge amounts of friction between the side of the tube and the inner liner of the tire. With every rotation, the sidewall will flex and rub against the tube. Friction equals heat. Heat is the ultimate enemy of tires, especially sidewalls. They are the weakest point of construction. Eventually the result will be BANG!

Last edited by mb_jg : 31st March 2011 at 19:11.
mb_jg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 19:11   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
bluevolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 2,963
Thanked: 2,211 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

I will suggest you to get a new tyre. Similar incident happened to my ANHC's tyre but I got the new tyre instead of repairing the damaged one. However, you can repair the damaged tyre and keep it spare and it for short distances if need occurs.
bluevolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 20:48   #19
BHPian
 
gopinathann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 765
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

I had the same problem, puncture on the side walls. I got a second hand tire for Rs. 1300 as a backup one.
gopinathann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 21:20   #20
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 181
Thanked: 40 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

Hi
For all the reason updated above i have to confirm that it is better to change the tyre. I had a similar experience when i was out of my place and luckily i was close to a hyundai showroom where the guys clearly told me the reason why i should not fix it and i obliged them. Cheers
drrajasaravanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 11:11   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dombivli
Posts: 2,627
Thanked: 1,191 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Then again, this is what would happen in a tube-type tyre too. So why should the risk of overheating be more when using a tube in a tube-less tyre ?
I think the idea of using tubes in a tubeless tyre would only work as a last resort if the tyre had had several punctures on its surfaces. Using the tube in a tyre which has a puncture in its sidewalls would be as bad as using the tyre itself. Essentially if the sidewall has been damaged, it's best to discard the tyre.
honeybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 11:17   #22
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,752
Thanked: 7,475 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

Its better to use this tyre as spare with a tube plonked in. Really not recommended to run such a tyre for regular use if you do speeds over 40-60 kmph.

Cost of tyre = 3500 bucks Vs Cost of damaged car? + Injury self/others??? Pick your choice!

Yes i preach what i practice, threw away a 2 day old tyre in a similar situation
Jaggu is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 11:57   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,240
Thanked: 226 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

thank you all for valuable suggestion to throw or use as emergency stepny. Will do exactly.
dwaraka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 12:35   #24
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,746
Thanked: 4,338 Times
Default Insides of a tube-less & a tube-type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Cost of tyre = 3500 bucks Vs Cost of damaged car? + Injury self/others??? Pick your choice!
Cold hard logic, can beat that.

Here's pics of the insides of a A-drive (tube-less) and tube-type (possibly Bridgestone). Both have ribbed inner surfaces. If I can safely put a tube in the tube-type tyre, then I should be able to put a tube in the tube-less tyre too.

A-drive / Tube-less:
Side wall puncture fixing-adriveinnerside.jpg

Tube-type:
Side wall puncture fixing-bstoneinnerside.jpg

A person may argue that the pattern is more intensive in the tube-type tyre, but hey - this pattern is there in this brand of tyre. A different brand will in all probability have a different pattern.
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 12:37   #25
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,663 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

Condor.

IMHO: Without a chemical analysis of the rubber compound and its ability to handle friction/ heat. The pictures don't really serve a purpose.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 13:08   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 487
Thanked: 110 Times
Default Re: Insides of a tube-less & a tube-type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Cold hard logic, can beat that.

Here's pics of the insides of a A-drive (tube-less) and tube-type (possibly Bridgestone). Both have ribbed inner surfaces. If I can safely put a tube in the tube-type tyre, then I should be able to put a tube in the tube-less tyre too.

A-drive / Tube-less:
Attachment 526117

Tube-type:
Attachment 526118

A person may argue that the pattern is more intensive in the tube-type tyre, but hey - this pattern is there in this brand of tyre. A different brand will in all probability have a different pattern.
You are missing the most vital part. A tubeless tire is designed NOT to have a tube, so why try & put one in the first place, for whatever reason.
I can quote the most crude examples of why some things are specifically designed to serve a single purpose, but then I would probably be kicked out of this forum for good
mb_jg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 13:40   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,746
Thanked: 4,338 Times
Default Re: Insides of a tube-less & a tube-type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
IMHO: Without a chemical analysis of the rubber compound and its ability to handle friction/ heat.
@BB, I'll still argue that a correctly inflated tube/tyre will not see movement of the tube w.r.t the tyre. Hence it should not be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mb_jg View Post
You are missing the most vital part. A tubeless tire is designed NOT to have a tube, so why try & put one in the first place, for whatever reason.
@Manish, I'll be more than happy to understand exactly why. At a highlevel, even I can quote that a tube-less tyre does not need a tube, and is designed such that it does not need a tube.

In your own words, the tubeless tyre is desgined "NOT to have a tube". Your post does not say "MUST NOT put a tube in a tubeless tyre". I am asking & trying to understand WHY is that.
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2011, 14:10   #28
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 487
Thanked: 110 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

Ok baba, here you go Can You Install an Inner Tube in a Tubeless Tire? | eHow.com

Automobile/Truck Tires
Do not install tubes into a radial automobile or truck tire. Most tubeless rims have a drop center. The drop center prevents the tube from making good contact with the tire. This can lead to damage to the rim or the sudden escape of air trapped beneath the tube and a drop in air pressure within the tube body. Tubeless tires have thicker sidewalls than tube tires. The inner tube helps support tube tire sidewalls, and this helps maintain positive contact between the tire and the inner tube. The stiffer radial sidewalls cause friction with the inner tube, and this can lead to failure of the tube or the sidewalls, and a sudden blowout while driving.

Read more: Can You Install an Inner Tube in a Tubeless Tire? | eHow.com Can You Install an Inner Tube in a Tubeless Tire? | eHow.com
mb_jg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2011, 01:39   #29
BHPian
 
torquecurve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 598
Thanked: 629 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

Sidewalls are the most important part of a tyre which takes a lot of Flex stress. Not advisable to repair and use, esp. if you drive a lot over potholes, breakers, with load or at speeds of over 20 kmph for extended periods of time. (Note: Most will answer yes to all the situations mentioned).

Sidewall repair is not worth it. Look at it this way,
Cost of sidewall repair -- 500
Chances of tyre failure when you least expect it - Very High
Chances of catastrophic failure - Very High
Chances of accident -- High
Total Accident damage cost - in Ruppees - 5000 to 500000
- in Irreplacable items - Our body.
Stress while driving due to tension of the tyre sidewall damage - VERY HIGH.
If the accident does not happen, is it worth the stress you will undergo?

Cost of New tyre - 1500 - 10000 (depending upon car and tyre size).
Chances of failure - Low.
Safety - Very High.
Stress factor - At least not the tyre!
Our life is worth more than the money that we spend. I believe that a small birthday treat for our friends costs more than the tyre.
Hope this helps you make the decision.

Last edited by torquecurve : 7th April 2011 at 01:52.
torquecurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2011, 17:12   #30
BHPian
 
ZeRo©'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 30
Thanked: 3 Times
Default Re: Side wall puncture fixing

Hi,

I am facing a somewhat similar issue, there was a puncture in the front left tyre day before yesterday. The puncture is on the tyre shoulder(outer side) and was caused by a pointed button head screw, the tyre guy told me that its a large hole and air may leak after the fix. It was fixed normally and did not require more then one rubber glue strip.
when asked about the reliability of the fix, he said that it may or may not leak and optionally he could put a tube.

Well I was in quite a dilemma and immediately called my DEAR FRIEND(team-bhp)on my phone browser, I came to this same thread and saw everyone against the tube idea including the experts, so tube idea dropped.

So now I am using the car with that tyre moved to the rear left side, it's been two days now and the fix seems to be holding.

1-current scenario is that I am having four 185/65 R14 XM1+ tyres
2-one spare tyre 175/65 R14(which is quite new and is only used till I reach the puncture repair shop at moderate speeds i.e <50kmph).

Now I need some suggestion that whether I should go for a new tyre immediately or wait for a few more days. I do not know whether the tyre belt chords were damaged.

*MOD - If I am intruding in the topic then pls delete the same and let me know if I can start a new thread as I could not find a similar topic, and chances of getting a reply on this thread is more.
ZeRo© is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interesting facts about Left Side or Right Side Driving kreddy Street Experiences 28 7th November 2013 14:30
How safe? - Front tyre with a bubble on side wall vinit.merchant Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 24 28th December 2011 14:31
Yoko S Drives : 1 year, 9 tyres, 2 blow outs, 4 side wall bulges kj302 Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 26 25th March 2011 01:53
3300Km old Yoko ADrives side wall gave away. Switch Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 28 3rd August 2009 14:22
Swivel and Tilt enabled wall mounts islandman Gadgets, Computers & Software 0 7th May 2007 16:44


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:55.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks