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Old 26th December 2011, 18:11   #16
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Funny thing is that the well to do who bought these seven seaters don't see to have had an issue with the abismal leg room left for the occupants of the last row of seats when the middle row is in use.

Keeping in mind that the owner would be riding on this seat there is hardly any leg space for them.
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Old 29th December 2011, 11:58   #17
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

The OIL-BATH Airfilters (or Wet Type) were in vogue in some cars till the 1960's.

As explained in Wiki
Quote:
Oil Bath
An oil bath air cleaner consists of a sump containing a pool of oil, and an insert which is filled with fibre, mesh, foam, or another coarse filter media. When the cleaner is assembled, the media-containing body of the insert sits a short distance above the surface of the oil pool. The rim of the insert overlaps the rim of the sump. This arrangement forms a labyrinthine path through which the air must travel in a series of U-turns: up through the gap between the rims of the insert and the sump, down through the gap between the outer wall of the insert and the inner wall of the sump, and up through the filter media in the body of the insert. This U-turn takes the air at high velocity across the surface of the oil pool. Larger and heavier dust and dirt particles in the air cannot make the turn due to their inertia, so they fall into the oil and settle to the bottom of the base bowl. Lighter and smaller particles are trapped by the filtration media in the insert, which is wetted by oil droplets aspirated there into by normal airflow.
Here is a working drawing from the Net, which explains the above beautifully
Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-od10040018im.jpg

Here are the internal pictures, you see the filter once you open the lid
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This is the oil sump in the air filter
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Here is a picture of a Wet Type Oil Filter in a 1954 Dodge
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Here are pictures of some DRY TYPE airfilters

From a 1947 Woseley
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From a 1932 Plymouth
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The best for the last, as you see a torpedo style air filter in a 1947 Citroen 6 cylinder
Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-cit-engine-r.jpg


Cheers

KPS

Last edited by KPS : 29th December 2011 at 11:59.
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Old 31st December 2011, 10:57   #18
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Free Wheeling is best understood as we all have experience riding the humble cycle. When we stop peddling the rear wheel is free to rotate or Free Wheeling and when we start peddling the hub is engaged to the peddle through the chain.

My Plymouth PB has a Free Wheeling System and the Owners Manuals explains how one needs to drive the car with this system
Quote:
When driving the car with the Free Wheeling unit in operation (control button pushed "in"), the shifting of gears is accomplished in the following manner. It is only necessary to use the clutch in order to get the car under way in first speed. To shift from first to second speeds, allow the engine to return to idling speed by releasing the accelerator. This requires only an instant. Then without disengaging the clutch, shift gears into second speed and press the accelerator to gain speed. To change from second speed to third speed is accomplished in the same manner. To shift from higher to a lower speed, follow the instructions as outlined above. If the above instructions are carefully followed, the shift from one gear to another gear can be made quietly and quickly at any speed. The Free Wheeling unit is automatically disengaged when the shifting lever is placed in reverse gear position.
Positive Gear Control (Conventional Drive) in many instances the driver of the car may not wish to use the Free Wheeling Feature when negotiating long hills or mountainous country. In order the lock out Free Wheeling at any speed, press the foot accelerator until the engine is driving the car, depress the clutch pedal and pull the control button "out" quickly to limit the travel. To Free Wheel at any speed, depress the clutch pedal and push the control button to "in" position.

This picture shows the automatic clutch control mechanism is mounted on the engine and connected to the clutch operating lever.
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The clutch control mechanism is operated by the vaccum in the intake manifold.
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The control plunger activated by the button on the dash when pushed "in" activates and when pulled "out" deactivates the Free Wheeling system
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A closer view of the control button
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The Owners Manual explains
Quote:
Free Wheeling is accomplished in the following manner: The power from the engine is applied through the transmission main shaft to the free wheeling cam, which in turn drives the Free Wheeling shaft through three sets of rollers. The Free Wheeling shaft is connected to the propeller shaft, thus completing the drive to the rear axle.
When the accelerator is released, the engine returns to idling speed and the driving connection to the rear axle is disengaged at the Free Wheeling unit. That is , since the cam is revolving at engine speed and the shaft is revolving at car speed, the driving connection through the rollers is broken because the cam is not turning fast enough to thrust the rollers against the face of the shaft to complete the transmission of power

Cheers

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Old 3rd January 2012, 10:52   #19
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post
Free Wheeling is best understood...

KPS

Hi KPS,

I have been following this thread with immense anticipation of what is next. Wish more stuff was taught this way in schools and colleges! Thanks a ton for this amazing thread. Keep it going please.

Regards,

Srinand.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 12:04   #20
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Default Push Button Transmission.

Push Button Transmission

Thought of sharing a unique feature of cars of the 50s era. Though i am no Vintage or classic car guru i do hope we can see more info on this from fellow Bhpians.

Push button transmission is an automatic transmission, but instead of having a lever to put it in drive or reverse, there is an area in the dash that had five buttons as seen in the pic below. To select the direction of travel, one had to put the foot on the brake and push the button of choice, and away you would go. Quite a unique feature though its criticized more than loved.


Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-dsc_0277a.jpg
Pic courtesy: Google
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Old 3rd January 2012, 12:43   #21
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Thanks for sharing the pic samsag12...This is the first time I'm seeing such set-up. I guess the disadvantage this had was multiple swithches causing confusion where in the conventional setup its just one lever moving into multiple slots.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 14:27   #22
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post

The best for the last, as you see a torpedo style air filter in a 1947 Citroen 6 cylinder
Attachment 861611


Cheers

KPS
Hi KPS,

We have positively identified this car by its chassis no. and the year specific chassis no. series for the Slough Citroens mentioned on a very informative website. It's a 1949 model and not earlier as previously thought.

Strangely enough, despite days of scouring through the net on Slough built Citroen 15-6 cars, I have not yet come across a single example with this torpedo shaped air filter unit. We haven't taken off the cover to see what material is inside but i'll do that tomorrow.

I have another question not related to this thread but since you've seen this car I want to ask you. You've seen the dual ignition coils and the change over switch. Now the one nearest to the left fender is the coil which is currently in use and the one towards its right only has a wire coming out of it. Assuming this coil is also working, do we just need to take the wire, open the other coil's wire going into the distributor and replace with the unused coil's wire and thereafter change over? Or is there some other method?

Thanks
Prithvi
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Old 3rd January 2012, 22:09   #23
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinand View Post
Hi KPS,
I have been following this thread with immense anticipation of what is next. Wish more stuff was taught this way in schools and colleges! Thanks a ton for this amazing thread. Keep it going please.
Regards,
Srinand.
Thanks Srinand for the inspiration. To tell you the truth, this is a learning process for me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsag12 View Post
Push Button Transmission

Thought of sharing a unique feature of cars of the 50s era. Though i am no Vintage or classic car guru i do hope we can see more info on this from fellow Bhpians.
Thanks Samsag for sharing. In fact I had seen this feature for the first time in Jay Leno's 1956 Chrysler Imperial where he says "if you can type you can drive" . Here is the link
1956 Chrysler Imperial - Video - Jay Leno's Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
Hi KPS,
We have positively identified this car by its chassis no. and the year specific chassis no. series for the Slough Citroens mentioned on a very informative website. It's a 1949 model and not earlier as previously thought.
Quote:
Glad to note that the model has been positively identified
I have another question not related to this thread but since you've seen this car I want to ask you. You've seen the dual ignition coils and the change over switch. Now the one nearest to the left fender is the coil which is currently in use and the one towards its right only has a wire coming out of it. Assuming this coil is also working, do we just need to take the wire, open the other coil's wire going into the distributor and replace with the unused coil's wire and thereafter change over? Or is there some other method?
Quote:
If I recollect we had noted that the only the left coil was working. Since there is a change over switch, guess the wire from the dual coils need to be connected to the change over switch only. I will see the pictures again tomorrow and see if I can give a positive reply
Thanks
Prithvi
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Old 4th January 2012, 07:56   #24
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KPS, it great to know that the work has started on the car.

I will explain the Coil to MBZ.
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Old 4th January 2012, 10:05   #25
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superleggera View Post
Thanks for sharing the pic samsag12...This is the first time I'm seeing such set-up. I guess the disadvantage this had was multiple swithches causing confusion where in the conventional setup its just one lever moving into multiple slots.
My pleasure Superleggera. More than the switch confusion, this system was prone to accidental pressing. Initially this system didn't had a safety mechanism to prevent it which caused hazardous issues while the car was parked. Press the 'N' button and car used to roll, in some cases resulting a disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post
Thanks Srinand for the inspiration. To tell you the truth, this is a learning process for me too.



Thanks Samsag for sharing. In fact I had seen this feature for the first time in Jay Leno's 1956 Chrysler Imperial where he says "if you can type you can drive" . Here is the link
1956 Chrysler Imperial - Video - Jay Leno's Garage
You're welcome sir. thanks for the link. He's a funny man with sensible talks. I have seen a couple of Topolino and Fiat select videos on his site.
BTW IIRC I saw this setup in an Oldsmobile for the first time.
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Old 11th February 2012, 15:58   #26
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

The Preselector Gearbox was widely used in Daimler and Armstrong Siddeley and is brief described as below

Quote:
As its name suggests, gear changes were made by selecting a gear ratio in advance of its being needed. The chosen gear was then brought into operation by pressing and releasing the 'gear change pedal', which was normally the left pedal, installed in place of the usual clutch pedal. It is not to be confused with automatic transmission, in that both the ratio chosen, and the moment for gear changing, are controlled by the driver.
Preselector gearbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These gears require some getting used to as if you use the gear changing pedal like a normal clutch whilst changing gears, you could bust your gear box. Basically you choose the gear you want to be and then press and release the gear changing pedal to engage the gear.

Here are pictures of a Daimler with a Wilson Preselector Gearbox

I have pointed out Preselector
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The gear changing pedal is in place of a clutch pedal
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Cheers

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Old 21st March 2012, 08:06   #27
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

FLOATING POWER ensured that the engine vibrations did not transmit to the body and is explained as below

Quote:
The big news in the engine department was not really the engine, but rather the method of mounting the engine into the chassis. "Floating Power" it was called, and it would become a Plymouth (and Chrysler Corporation) trademark. Interestingly enough, the Plymouth was the first car in the Corporation to use Floating Power but it would soon be adopted not only across the board in the Corporation's own cars within 6 months, but other makers would adopt it (paying royalties for its use) as well.

Because of the inherent imbalance to torque reaction in a four cylinder engine, owners of such cars experienced much more vibration in their cars than owners of six or eight cylinder powered vehicles (the smoothest engine in the world was the Cadillac V16!) and that was a problem which Chrysler engineers attempted to overcome. Mainly the work of Owen Skelton (one of Chrysler's "Three Musketeers", with Zeder and Breer), over 1,000 engine mounting ideas were tried. Almost sheer simplicity in its final form, Skelton found that by mounting the engine on the axis of its own weight- that is by following the engine's center of gravity- then mounting the engine in rubber, most of the vibration could be eliminated. The engine was mounted high at the front, just below the water pump, then low at the rear.

Through a special process developed by Chrysler engineers (while other companies cut back on engineering during the Depression years, Chrysler forged ahead, hiring such men as C. Harold Wills to add to its 804 member engineering staff), 1" thick rubber was bonded to steel upper and lower halves. The upper steel half would be mounted to the engine; the lower steel half would be mounted to the frame of the car. Under this "rubber sandwich" system, the engine made no metal-to-metal contact with the frame. This mounting system allowed the engine to rock as it pleased in the chassis, yet no vibration or motion was transmitted through the frame into the passenger compartment.

To prevent the engine from moving out of line with the drive train a small semi-elliptical spring was fitted to the right frame tail and bolted, again via rubber mountings, to the bottom of the engine.
1931 and 1932 Plymouth PA cars

The first picture shows front end mounting
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The rear mounting of the engine
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Cheers

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Old 21st March 2012, 11:44   #28
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Default re: Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post
FLOATING POWER ensured that the engine vibrations did not transmit to the body and is explained as below

1931 and 1932 Plymouth PA cars

The first picture shows front end mounting

The rear mounting of the engine

Cheers

KPS
Pictured here is my car with a more modern type of floating power in my 1958 Mercedes 180a Ponton. MB called this a sub-frame. The ovular u-shaped light metal piece is placed under the main front frame and is damped by 3 heavy duty rubber bushes. The engine then sits on this sub-frame and is not in contact with the main frame. The purpose is the same, to minimize engine vibrations passing through the car.

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-sub1.jpg

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-sub2.jpg

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Also shown is a version of a manual full length cloth sunroof made by Webasto on a Mercedes Ponton wagon by specialist MB coachbuilder-Binz. Binz officially made these wagons, or station wagons as we call them on the 4 cylinder Ponton chassis. The manual sunroof can be adjusted to open at any length and slides right back and enable rear passengers to enjoy the open as well.

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-webasto.jpg

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-webasto2.jpg


Third is all round independent suspension as found on my Ponton, but I have shown mostly the front. What I want to highlight is the coil over shock method used for the front; the stabilizer bar (anti-roll bar) is also shown but is not connected with the suspension arms. Coil spring suspensions over telescopic shocks greatly improved the handling of the car, ride comfort and safety at higher speeds since you had more car control.

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-axll.jpg

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-axlr.jpg

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-fr1.jpg

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-fdiff.jpg


And lastly, a small but very useful device at night, an ani-glare rear view mirror. This is illustrated in a Ponton Cabriolet (sorry for the MB overdose). Unlike modern versions, the Pontons (including my car) had 2 separate pieces of glass. The outer piece is transparent glass and the inner is the actual mirror connected with a finger jutting out at the bottom. The entire mirror itself dips inside the housing and cuts the glare of vehicles using high beam behind you. A small but important convenience and safety measure.

Automobile Technologies of the Past - A Revisit-antiblinding.jpg


Regards
mbz180
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Old 21st March 2012, 15:46   #29
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A Peugeot motorboat car, in Britain
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Back views of an English invention capable of being used as a car, boat and plane. Showing are a tail fin, rudder and propeller. It also has two wings which can fold back and another propeller at the front.
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A Fulgar show-model car made by French car manufacturers, Simca. Designed for the year 2000 it is intended to be atomically powered, guided by radar and using only two wheels balanced by gyroscopes when driven at over 150 kph
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A caterpillar driven ferry with a 24 horsepower engine takes holidaymakers from the mainland at Bigbury in Devon to Burgh Island, a quarter of a mile away
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Old 8th April 2012, 22:11   #30
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From Herman Zapps, 1928 Graham Paige we saw three of the old technologies which seems to have sustained the arduous journey around the world quite well. They have visited 45 countries till date with more than 2 lakh kms on the clock

First seen is the wonderful wooden artillery wheels. In hot climates the wheels need to be watered and oiled to ensure that they do not crack. The wheels seem to be in amazing condition.

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Next seen is the shock absorbers which are actually dampers. This is a Armstrong type, but note that the linkage to the "I" beam is made of canvas.

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Herman explained that 1928 was the first year of hydraulic brakes. However they were external hydraulic brakes which are a clasp type. Herman says these brakes hardly hold when wet.

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Cheers

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