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Old 10th January 2012, 20:45   #76
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

Only pic i managed before the camera conked off.
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Old 11th January 2012, 02:03   #77
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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Well in my opinion the cars should be done up according to what the owner wants it to be. If he wants the car to look nice and bling and think i there is anything wrong with it at all. Or let's put it this way he should not expect to win a prize in an event. It should be very clear to see if one is participating in a rally to win prizes or to have fun and enjoy the event.
I agree that the choice regarding authenticity is at the owner's discretion. But I don't see what it has to do with not expecting to win a prize. Of course they will expect to get a prize since many 'bling' cars have been repeatedly getting awards at least in Kolkata.

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
The judging definitely needs to improve and we need to make an effort towards it rather than sitting and just commenting on Team-BHP. Does any one of us can say that he know everything about all the cars that are entered in a particular event? Well if it is something like the Cartier then the judges should know everything about them since those cars have been invited to the event.
I had suggested a way to address this and I repeat. The judges have the list of participating cars much before the rally. They could split up categories and confine their research. It may improve the judging standards.


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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
With regards to the paint job and colour scheme it would be again the owners choice of how he wants the car to look. Today if we want to buy any modern car we can go to the dealer and tell him in what colour we want the car to be.
This is absolutely incorrect. How many sub Rs.25-30 lakh cars available in India can be ordered with the owner's choice of colour? In fact, colour schemes are so limited in some cases, that people end up buying a car in a colour not of their choice as it's out of stock and they cannot wait. Very few mass produced luxo barges, some bespoke cars and supercars are available in any choice of colour.

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
In the earlier times, please correct me if i am wrong the Model T ford was the only car that came in black and Ford didn't offer any options of any other colours.
This is a common misconception. The Model T never started as being available in only black. For the first few years a no. of colours were available. If I remember correctly, after this they switched to black till the end because the company couldn't keep up with demand for the car and since enamel based black was the quickest drying paint they only offered that after the initial years.

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
If one wished to he could order a car in his own preferred colour. So similarly if the ownership changes down the line and I buy a car and paint it in a colour which i like i don't understand why a third person should have a problem in it. I would ofcourse not expect to win a prize in a concourse event but then i'd participate in it for the fun of it. And yes if my car wins a prize which it shouldn't have then well even i would question the judging of the event.
Well then you would also question the judging at Pebble Beach and Meadowbrook. I keep a track of the award winning cars (on the net & mags) at these events every year and some of the colours are definitely very far from the original. It is the quality of the resto that matters. And besides, even in the Indian car scene context, is the colour of the car that important vis-a-vis trophies? The car could be of any colour, single or 2 tone in any shade but as long as the paint job and the rest of the car are top notch why would I not expect to get a prize?

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Basically one think we need to understand here is, do we want to enter a car into a rally for the purpose of making it win a prize or do we want to do it for the fun of it? There are people who do participate in a rally to just enjoy it and why don't we all try and do the same? If its just about winning a prize then restore your car to that level of originality that it cannot be refused a prize.
In my opinion there are 2 separate categories as far as this is concerned.

First, If a car is being restored ground up, no expense barred and the resto is being done keeping in mind that the car must turn out to be a prize winner, in no way is that wrong. Eg. horse breeding and winning races is serious money and for those owners who don't need it, brings great prestige in social circles. The owner of the horse spends serious money to keep the stud in top form and he expects results.

And then of course if you are ok with some compromises here and there or if you know that your car clearly doesn't stand a chance it really is a fun day at the races and the rallies.

I agree with your other points.

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Old 11th January 2012, 09:50   #78
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

With all due respect MBZ180 the judging at events like Pebble Beach / Meadowbrook etc has deviated to a great deal from the true form of judging and this is acknowledged by many a serious car restorer / owner.

To win a prize at the above mentioned events the car has to be restored to far better standards than it was ever produced in the first place.

The cars at these shows ae truly well restored but in many ways are taken to the extremes and end up as somewhat Bling or even just amazing eye candy and are always trailer queens.

They finally relented and introduced a preservation class in Pebble Beach as there was a serious clamour for judging based on authenticity not looks.

On another note great cars like the ones that are invited to Pebble are rare, exquisite one of a kind jewels and if thery were not to shine like jewels it would detract from the event so its become a tradition.
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Old 11th January 2012, 10:15   #79
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
With all due respect MBZ180 the judging at events like Pebble Beach / Meadowbrook etc has deviated to a great deal from the true form of judging and this is acknowledged by many a serious car restorer / owner.

To win a prize at the above mentioned events the car has to be restored to far better standards than it was ever produced in the first place.

The cars at these shows ae truly well restored but in many ways are taken to the extremes and end up as somewhat Bling or even just amazing eye candy and are always trailer queens.

They finally relented and introduced a preservation class in Pebble Beach as there was a serious clamour for judging based on authenticity not looks.

On another note great cars like the ones that are invited to Pebble are rare, exquisite one of a kind jewels and if thery were not to shine like jewels it would detract from the event so its become a tradition.
Wasif, I agree with what you have said but then as your last para says, the cars which are entered are like jewels, works of art and thus understandably made to shine and made far better than the original standards. And I suppose that the judging even in these events might be biased somewhat considering how many owners of the cars entered are some of the richest and famous personalities of the world. When you have cars entered by Ralph Lauren and the like, I guess one would almost be obligated to give their cars some added weight if not for anything else, but just to keep them happy in order for them to re-enter other cars the next year.

From the little that I know, Jay Leno is one of the few famous people which are invited and takes a number of cars, but hardly ever blings them up. Even he doesn't get awarded for authenticity of the cars

Now for some long delayed pics I took at the scrutiny day and rally day.



Regards
mbz180
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Last edited by mbz180 : 11th January 2012 at 10:23.
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Old 11th January 2012, 10:18   #80
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

At the very least Jay know what an original car is and what a trailer queen is and he actually works on, drives and enjoys his cars. The is a try car guy unlike Ralph Lauren someof the others who collect as a fashion.
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Old 11th January 2012, 11:00   #81
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

Some more pics from my side.

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Last edited by mbz180 : 11th January 2012 at 11:01.
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Old 11th January 2012, 11:09   #82
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

And some more pics. Both days were cloudy and I didn't have enough time to really stand still and take good pics so please excuse the quality. In fact, many of the pics were taken as I was walking
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Old 11th January 2012, 11:14   #83
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And the last batch from my side.
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Old 11th January 2012, 12:31   #84
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

Wow nice cars, too much to digest. I like the MGA, the maser and the rear Engined merc. The Merc is totally unique.
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Old 11th January 2012, 23:33   #85
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

The Dodge Kingsway and the Plymouth Savoy are finally here.

What is the pink car to the left of the convertible Pontiac (WGIXXX)
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Old 12th January 2012, 00:28   #86
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The Dodge Kingsway and the Plymouth Savoy are finally here.

What is the pink car to the left of the convertible Pontiac (WGIXXX)
Pink is a dodge kingsway
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Old 12th January 2012, 14:45   #87
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

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Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
I agree that the choice regarding authenticity is at the owner's discretion. But I don't see what it has to do with not expecting to win a prize. Of course they will expect to get a prize since many 'bling' cars have been repeatedly getting awards at least in Kolkata.
Are we just discussing with regards to kolkata or are we discussing in general? Cars outside Kolkata are much less "BLING" and they do win prizes.

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I had suggested a way to address this and I repeat. The judges have the list of participating cars much before the rally. They could split up categories and confine their research. It may improve the judging standards.
I agree to that. They should. Nut just by your suggestion on that do you think the judges would do so ? I doubt very much.


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This is absolutely incorrect. How many sub Rs.25-30 lakh cars available in India can be ordered with the owner's choice of colour? In fact, colour schemes are so limited in some cases, that people end up buying a car in a colour not of their choice as it's out of stock and they cannot wait. Very few mass produced luxo barges, some bespoke cars and supercars are available in any choice of colour.
Well then let me enlighten you that 2 and a half year back when we ordered our swift diesel, we wanted it in the dark blue shade that comes only in the Swift Dzire. And guess what? They agreed to give it to us in that shade but there was a waiting period for 7-8months. So the colours are available but then you want to choose a yellow for your swift, you will be shown the yellow colour shades that Maruti has and you have to choose the shade from the options given. And yes the main point as you mentioned above, people cannot wait for the car in their colour. So its not quite right to say that its not available. It is available with a waiting.


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This is a common misconception. The Model T never started as being available in only black. For the first few years a no. of colours were available. If I remember correctly, after this they switched to black till the end because the company couldn't keep up with demand for the car and since enamel based black was the quickest drying paint they only offered that after the initial years.
I stand corrected here. Well what i meant was ford had a punch line from 1909 “Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black”.
However, in the first years of production from 1908 to 1914, the Model T was not available in black but rather only grey, green, blue, and red. Green was available for the touring cars, town cars, coupes, and Landaulets. Grey was only available for the town cars, and red only for the touring cars. By 1912, all cars were being painted midnight blue with black fenders. It was only in 1914 that the "any color as long as it is black" policy was finally implemented. It is often stated that Ford suggested the use of black from 1914 to 1926 due to the cheap cost and durability of black paint. During the lifetime production of the Model T, over 30 different types of black paint were used on various parts of the car. These were formulated to satisfy the different means of applying the paint to the various parts, and had distinct drying times, depending on the part, paint, and method of drying.
So its not quite correct to say that it was only because of the drying time take. It was also Durability of the paint as mentioned above.


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Well then you would also question the judging at Pebble Beach and Meadowbrook. I keep a track of the award winning cars (on the net & mags) at these events every year and some of the colours are definitely very far from the original. It is the quality of the resto that matters. And besides, even in the Indian car scene context, is the colour of the car that important vis-a-vis trophies? The car could be of any colour, single or 2 tone in any shade but as long as the paint job and the rest of the car are top notch why would I not expect to get a prize?
Don't you think its happening? There is a certain car that comes to the Statesman every year but has only won a prize the first year it was entered. And after that it hasn't. The colour of the car is not an original shade that came in the car. But none the less its by far one of the best restored and mainted cars and does look far better than many cars. The judges say since the car doesn't have an original paint scheme, it is not eligible to win a prize. So my reply was in that context and to the kolkata scene.

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In my opinion there are 2 separate categories as far as this is concerned.

First, If a car is being restored ground up, no expense barred and the resto is being done keeping in mind that the car must turn out to be a prize winner, in no way is that wrong. Eg. horse breeding and winning races is serious money and for those owners who don't need it, brings great prestige in social circles. The owner of the horse spends serious money to keep the stud in top form and he expects results.
Yes the example of the car that i haven given above. But still doesn't win a prize either for restoration or for maintenance or anything. And most of us know the reason to that.

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And then of course if you are ok with some compromises here and there or if you know that your car clearly doesn't stand a chance it really is a fun day at the races and the rallies.
I am 100% in agreement with that and you would know that better than me.


Please share your experience of this year's rally with the Traction Avant.

Regards

Indrojit

Last edited by IndrojitSircar : 12th January 2012 at 14:52.
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Old 12th January 2012, 18:35   #88
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

Nice pics.! Always good to see more classics turning up at these shows. However, less impressive is the attempt at 'period costumes' on part of most of the owners in these shows. Particularly in case of the people with the Morris 8 WBA 6396, the ladies' costumes look anachronistically Victorian era-ish rather than from the 1940s, to which the car belongs! Being draped in the traditional Bong Sarees with puffy-sleeved blouses (a la Rani Mukherjee "Hey ram" movie style) would've done more justice!

But coming back to the cars, good to see the efforts on part of the owners/restorers in keeping them in good shape.

Also good to see another Adler around. There is a derelict one here in Hyd. that has fallen to pieces, getting more and more ruined with time. I believe it was a pristine car once.
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Old 12th January 2012, 20:28   #89
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Default Re: The 2012 Kolkata Statesman Vintage & Classic Car Rally

By the way which car won the "Car of the show"?

Has the Pontiac convertible appeared in the past?

Last edited by KPS : 12th January 2012 at 20:29.
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Old 13th January 2012, 13:57   #90
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Has the Pontiac convertible appeared in the past?

Yes it has but many years back. This car is not a regular entry. Its a part of Mr. Partha Sadhan Bose's stable.
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