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Old 19th November 2012, 23:11   #151
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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It's so sad that so many owners and enthusiast can collaborate and help each other. But that is the privilege of a few only.
When you see the amazing restorations, auctions, events and gala dinners and overall fun and serious business that the vintage car hobby is in the US and maybe Europe too you cannot help but wonder that we are a sorry excuse of a nation which neither ever created an automobile to really appreciate the art of creating such machinery to ever share in the joy of automotive camaraderie to allow for a free spirit to prevail. We have become a sad nation of petty politicians with self serving interests and the vintage car world is not alien to this tradition of ours.

We are so far behind and it's as I wholeheartedly agree with you so so sad.

But I am an optimist and I believe this will change. The drives you guys are organising are a breath of fresh air. You are doing it for the fun of enjoying these magnificent machines and above all because you enjoy each other's company. So I see a change coming and just hope it will pick up pace.

TBHP is also an amazing example of how so many of us have so selflessly shared our experiences and knowledge. These are all signs of change. Many enthusiasts apparently read TBHP regularly but don't have the honesty to be present and contribute freely.
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Old 20th November 2012, 07:35   #152
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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TBHP is also an amazing example of how so many of us have so selflessly shared our experiences and knowledge. These are all signs of change. Many enthusiasts apparently read TBHP regularly but don't have the honesty to be present and contribute freely.
I do hope that this will not change. Express views freely was the single most important differentiator which made this Forum enjoyable.

We all know that people in positions at the various clubs with huge collections rarely contribute anything of value to the Forum. I used to wonder why and then you understand the politics involved in these clubs ensure there can be no openness in views.

We were fortunate that that we had long time collectors like Harit, Bulldogji, Awini, DKG, to name a few gracing this Forum regularly and I hope this continues.

Cheers

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Old 20th November 2012, 08:11   #153
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

KPS I regulalry watch a show called Chasing Classic Cars on Discovery and cannot begin to explain how exciting the show is and the fun factor of chasing cars in the US, restoring them, or even buying great restored cars at auctions. It's just such a mind blowing scenario there. And it's serious business for many and that's the way it should be. It's all so well developed and there's a lot of trading going on year round. If you have the money you just go to a auction and buy what pleases you. When you tire of it you simply go back to the auction and resell your car. You look at all that and you come back to our petty politics and secrecy and the sham that the vintage car scene is in India and it honestly disgusts me.

But I really appreciate what's happening here on TBHP and the drives in Mumbai. That's really the spirit. Fortunately for me my biking group allows me that freshness of spirit and we have loads of fun going for rides every Sunday.
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Old 20th November 2012, 14:07   #154
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

One neednít look all the way over to Europe or US ..just look across the border at the fun and adventure happening in Pakistan...Mohsin and company are just having a ball out there with no politics to come in the way !

What happens in India is a shame and to see that very knowledgeable people and people who are highly influential in the old car community perpetuating, encouraging and actually playing dirty is unforgiveable
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Old 20th November 2012, 16:32   #155
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Today I received an email from Cartier organisers acknowledging receipt of the Chevy entry application with a polite decline Hope am luckier with the visitor invite !

BTW just some information for those who may be interested. The 1933 Chevrolet I applied for was assembled at GM's Bombay plant in 1933. So technically is it an Indian Heritage Classic?

Here's what a member frm the Chevy USA forum had to say about the chassis number:

"Your car is assembled in the GM plant in Bombay, (X for export and T for Bombay, CA for 1933 Eagle and 680 for the production #)."

Last edited by DKG : 20th November 2012 at 16:43.
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Old 20th November 2012, 17:05   #156
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

So , finally the first of the expected list of rejections has been made public. A lovely car, less worthy cars have been seen at the earlier Cartier show, I wonder what the selection criteria is? Tweety whispered that those that comment, get rejected. Sad , if true. Time will tell . Deepak, I believe all those who have applied will get visitor invites, so you need not concern yourself on that account. The TVS chevy is a tastefully restored car, which runs like a dream. Pity folks in bombay will not get a chance to see this beauty in flesh. I would not be suprised if the rejection letter offers hope for NEXT TIME. Personally, if I offered my car and it was rejected, I would never offer it again. After all, if it was not good enough for them in 2013, why should it be different in , say, 2014 or 2015? OK. Lets hazard a guess. Who is next? My bet would be the interesting Dodge offered by Harit.

Last edited by Bulldogji : 20th November 2012 at 17:13.
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Old 20th November 2012, 19:54   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif
One needn’t look all the way over to Europe or US ..just look across the border at the fun and adventure happening in Pakistan...Mohsin and company are just having a ball out there with no politics to come in the way !

What happens in India is a shame and to see that very knowledgeable people and people who are highly influential in the old car community perpetuating, encouraging and actually playing dirty is unforgiveable
I agree on that the guys across the border are having one superb time. How many runs, races on actual Tarmac and expeditions. Three cheers to them.

Sad the chevrolet is not coming with such detail and effort. I was fortunate to see it in person.

What saddens and will always be something I am going to drive further - is to change the attitude of collectors and enthusiast big or small to help the other enthusiasts with correct advice and their restorations. This is general statement and not pointed at anyone in particular. The program that DKG mentioned chasing classic cars is superb and the sheer enthusiasm. The program shows all of us that hiding does lead to any results and keeps the movement subdued which is incorrect, it should be alive and bubbling all over . Money does not make hobbies and enthusiasts, it's from within.

Cheers

Last edited by kasli : 20th November 2012 at 20:11.
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Old 20th November 2012, 23:06   #158
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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I wonder what the selection criteria is?
Market appeal ! They are choosing cars which are the darlings of millions of Indians. Who knows maybe they are planning a range of products specifically for the Indian market to be sold through corner grocery stores?

Surely Travel with Style and Cartier's exclusive world wide brand imaging is in stark contrast to the lifestyle associated with families who grew up with Ambassadors, Fiats, Heralds, Jeeps, Yezdi, Rajdoot, Vespas, Lambrettas, Suvegas and Lunas and let's not forget the auto rickshaws - transport of the millions !

Cartier could rename their roadshow as Moving with the Millions instead of Travel with Style.

My sincere advise to the organisers is : keep it exclusive ! It's all about branding and you don't promote lifestyles in contrast to what your product appeals to. Even if you get only ten cars let those ten cars be stuff that is jaw dropping. We don't want a crowd of cars but quality. Oh and btw even the TVS Chevy stays out as it was never considered exclusive. Please folks, those of you associated with Cartier and am sure who read these posts should realise that you are doing injustice to an international brand. Either you don't understand the significance of branding and marketing principles or you are simply bungling up an otherwise brilliant concept.

Here's what Cartier should really do. Rent an exotic palace each year, invite ten fabulous cars, throw a wild and exotic weekend bash and get the most from the pr exercise and sell your products with style.

Last edited by DKG : 20th November 2012 at 23:35.
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Old 21st November 2012, 00:24   #159
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

An Austin owner from Hyd also recvd his polite refusal today from Cartier with a promise to keep her in mind the next time. As expected!
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Old 21st November 2012, 07:39   #160
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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An Austin owner from Hyd also recvd his polite refusal today from Cartier with a promise to keep her in mind the next time. As expected!
I for one cannot imagine why an Austin would be invited? Which class? What is so unique of that car?

I fully agree with DKG's post. I only wish the standards set at the 1st event was not diluted. I feel that the plan is to surround a few special cars with some ordinary ones so that that the special cars stand out even more in the crowd. Frankly I was very surprised by the list of Doc's cars. There are so many better ones in his stable.

I guess the Napiers would the special cars which every one must be waiting to see.

Cheers

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Old 21st November 2012, 07:58   #161
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Unfortunately the organisers lack imagination. Falaknuma has been superbly restored. Dinner at that palace is a surreal experience. That was the original home of the Napiers. SF Edge would have met Mir Mahbub Ali Khan at the palace to conclude the deal for half a dozen cars in one shot.

After more than a hundred years these cars are being revealed to the world in a new avatar. Do it in style over champagne and caviar at the Falaknuma. Invite just a dozen more cars for the wow factor.

Even the chickens meant for the Falaknuma dining table had a more exotic ferry than some of the cars that will now give company to the ultra exotic Napiers.

Cartier - you are about beautiful artefacts, patronised by beautiful people, who drive beautiful cars and live in beautiful homes - where does common place come into the equation? Cartier in India should be about palaces, exotic automobiles, beautiful people and ultimately beautiful lifestyles. A Cartier show should showcase the finest in everything - cuisine, location, crowd and cars.

Last edited by DKG : 21st November 2012 at 08:18.
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Old 21st November 2012, 11:05   #162
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

I think Deepak has hit the nail on the head. Down the line many of us forget that these shows are all about Cartier, not cars. His suggestion is spot on. Be exclusive, show case Palaces, some really great cars, porcelain, furniture, jewels and other collectibles. Move away from the Fiats, ambassadors, standards austins buicks etc. Concentrate on Art Deco cars. The first show in Bombay had good cars. The second, in Delhi, had a mix of good and common. Surely Cartier is not portraying themselves as a brand for the janta? Hyderabad and the Falaknuma would have been far more be fitting a venue than the Bombay turf club or as is being thought of currently, the Taj, lands end. I had occassion to use the Falaknuma Palace as a venue for an international conference dinner and delegates even now , years later , cannot stop raving about the Palace and the dinner. Maybe, just maybe, this show will finally open their eyes, and the next, if there is another, will be at a Palace in Hyderabad or Rajasthan, or somewhere similar.
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Old 21st November 2012, 11:57   #163
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Bang on DKG . The Falakhnama is one of the best places I have stayed and visited. Very grand and superbly restored. If they are having a venue problem shift the venue and city and keep the best only fitting to the Brand and what they want to portray.

Actually Hyd has a few breathtaking venues including not far from Falakhnama is the Chowmallah palace.

What about Rambhagh ? Rajashthan and the great Palaces . No logistics nightmare for its between mumbai and Delhi where most of the cars are coming from. South only Bangalore and the Bangalore Palace is nice location and all three cities have great flights connectivity .

Anyways they should really keep it exclusive to their brand and relook at Marketing .

Cheers





Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Unfortunately the organisers lack imagination. Falaknuma has been superbly restored. Dinner at that palace is a surreal experience. That was the original home of the Napiers. SF Edge would have met Mir Mahbub Ali Khan at the palace to conclude the deal for half a dozen cars in one shot.

After more than a hundred years these cars are being revealed to the world in a new avatar. Do it in style over champagne and caviar at the Falaknuma. Invite just a dozen more cars for the wow factor.

Even the chickens meant for the Falaknuma dining table had a more exotic ferry than some of the cars that will now give company to the ultra exotic Napiers.

Cartier - you are about beautiful artefacts, patronised by beautiful people, who drive beautiful cars and live in beautiful homes - where does common place come into the equation? Cartier in India should be about palaces, exotic automobiles, beautiful people and ultimately beautiful lifestyles. A Cartier show should showcase the finest in everything - cuisine, location, crowd and cars.

Last edited by kasli : 21st November 2012 at 12:01.
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Old 21st November 2012, 12:08   #164
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

I dont think any of our opinions on this really matter to the Cartier people so whats the point !
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Old 21st November 2012, 12:51   #165
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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I for one cannot imagine why an Austin would be invited? Which class? What is so unique of that car?

I fully agree with DKG's post. I only wish the standards set at the 1st event was not diluted. I feel that the plan is to surround a few special cars with some ordinary ones so that that the special cars stand out even more in the crowd. Frankly I was very surprised by the list of Doc's cars. There are so many better ones in his stable.

I guess the Napiers would the special cars which every one must be waiting to see.

Cheers

KPS
The owner argues if Fiats, Ambys and Landmasters can grace that impressive lineup, and even go home with trophies, why not an Austin? There's a specific category in which his car fits he claims...Well! to me there are bigger surprises than an Austin being declined...Cars that should have been invited but aren't... Let's hope some really deserving and worthy of admiration machines captivate us at that event. Cheers!
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