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Old 14th June 2012, 15:14   #16
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Hi Faster, normally about 60 cars get invited. This however is entirely dependant on Manvinder and Cartier seem clueless. Personally I have after two such events come to the conclusion that this is more of a cartier life style event rather than cars.Mechanicals are never given a thought. Just cosmetics and gift of the gab. Be it the owner or the restorer.In the first show in bombay many cars were pushed into place as they were non runners. Prizes had to be given to please certain quarters , and so were , well given. I had overheard at least one official mildly objecting, but he was ignored.
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Old 14th June 2012, 17:45   #17
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Hi Faster, normally about 60 cars get invited
Are they still going to invite bikes this year? Any information on that. I hope this year they make the event a little more democratic and allow enthusiasts to purchase tickets to view the cars!
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Old 14th June 2012, 18:24   #18
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Also in true traditions of a serious concours the winning cars MUST drive up to the podium to recieve their prize and drive off again !

This is the way you show that your car got the prize on merit not connections !

There was a mention of one of the Napiers from Hyderabad to be restored for thsi show, any news on it.

What is the news about the Rajkot Rolls, any idea when it will be back in India ?
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Old 15th June 2012, 10:51   #19
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Wasif, the restoration and participation of the Hyd Napiers I suspect will be dependant on which car is going to be PRE SELECTED for Best Of Show. If the Rajkot Rolls is entered , perhaps the Napier may not be ready in time? As I said , it all depends. The judges cannot be blamed as they are told stories and at times there is a blur between truth and fiction. Mole, what democracy are you dreaming about? Its all about connections, unfortunately genuine enthusiasts at times are left out. Sadly transperancy is a rare commodity these days. If you are keen, I am sure Nitin will be able to get you invited. Nearer the time, if you wish I will speak to Manvinder and make a request, for us both. It will be nice to see great cars from all over the country at one location. The earlier show in Bombay was really good. Hope they retain that level and surpass it. We all had a blast. Good cars, lovely food , and a great oppurtunity to meet old friends and make new.
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Old 15th June 2012, 11:49   #20
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Cartier has issued this Press Release giving us some details on the event.

Final Concours Press Release.docx

Final Concours Press Release.pdf

To end much speculation, the key points to note are -
  • Being held in Feb 2013 in Bombay
  • Addition of multiple motorcycle categories
  • Addition of an Edwardian category (upto 1914)
  • Those who wish to submit their entry for participation may write to concoursindia@gmail.com by August 31st.
I personally view the last point as a very positive step - many raised a concern that they would have liked to participate but were not informed/given the opportunity. Naturally, it will be fiercely competitive.

I'm really looking forward to the event - from what I have read some very special cars could be there. Also hope to meet so many old friends and new.

Last edited by karlosdeville : 15th June 2012 at 19:07.
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Old 15th June 2012, 15:16   #21
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
Do we have a wish list of the cars we would like to see at this event? How many cars are usually at the event itself? Ideas on which cars would be best in show?
Let me start, then I would like to hear yours. I would love to see the Pune 540K, Gondal 500K, Bentley 8 litre (Khan), Hyd Napier/s, Rajkot Rolls, Tata Nurburg - but all of these have been discussed already. Additionally a couple of rarities from Bhogilal collection would be great, perhaps one of the Lagondas or Daimlers, Hispano, Bentleys or the Minerva.

Since Mercedes is being discussed, what about the Bhogilal 540K that has been discussed elsewhere, or the 300SC. And I would love to see the large white Mannheim (?) Landaulette, I think ex Mayurhanj. There is also a later 300 pillarless 4 door cabrio in a Bombay collection that is exciting. Rumoured to be ex Indore. Does anyone remember the car? Its not been shown as far as I know.

The Nath collection in Delhi too has a few gems - a very early Buick, ex Ayodhya, would make a great entry for the Edwardian class - or maybe even preservation (had original interiors, not sure about paint). Their Delage and 'his and hers' Cadillacs (I think Kapurhtala) too could be entrants. Amongst later cars their Chrysler Imperial (and another Bombay car) could qualify.

Another interesting car would be the striking blue Jodhpur Windovers Rolls PII.

Some other interesting cars coming to mind are the Akalkot Bentley and Kolhapur Maybach. The Maybach could possibly enter the preservation category, I believe it is completely unrestored and original, if a tad tatty.

Naturally, this is assuming restoration/recommissioning would be carried out where required for all the above mentioned cars. Awini - when are you starting work on the Lagonda?

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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Also in true traditions of a serious concours the winning cars MUST drive up to the podium to recieve their prize and drive off again!
Absolutely. The prize distribution the first time round was a small, crowded affair in the tent, not so comfortable and hard to see. The second time it was grand, with an appropriate ramp to drive up and collect the prize.
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Old 15th June 2012, 16:25   #22
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Wow Karl, when did Cartier hold their press conference? when was the press release put out? My computer cannot open it for whatever reason. I intend sending a mail on the ID given by you to understand their requirements
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Old 15th June 2012, 17:16   #23
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
I will speak to Manvinder and make a request, for us both. It will be nice to see great cars from all over the country at one location. The earlier show in Bombay was really good. Hope they retain that level and surpass it. We all had a blast. Good cars, lovely food , and a great oppurtunity to meet old friends and make new.
Hi Buldogji, thank you for the gesture. As bikes are in this year i am sure my passes will be taken care of by my close friends, not the ones you mentioned above though . Yes my attraction to the event is to meet like minded people such as yourself and enjoy the cars in their company. I am not attracted to the event for the exclusivity per say that was associated to the last two events. I must say though i would have better chances of getting the passes from Cartier then the Vintage car fraternity, which i will exercise from the next event onwards.regards mole
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Old 15th June 2012, 19:08   #24
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Wow Karl, when did Cartier hold their press conference? when was the press release put out? My computer cannot open it for whatever reason. I intend sending a mail on the ID given by you to understand their requirements
I dont think there was a Press Conference, they sent this across yesterday. As many people told me they couldnt view the file, I have also added a .pdf version to my original post.
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Old 16th June 2012, 11:45   #25
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Thanks for the pdf file Karl. Its interesting to read that they are inviting entries on concoursindia@gmail.com It further states that the details will be FORWARDED to London for final selection by HRH Prince Michael and Manvinder. Therefore I assume the mail is going to someone else in India, who will then decide which mails to forward to London. SO full details including pictures are to be initially sent to someone unknown. I find this quite strange. Why do they not straight away invite entries to London or Manvinder? I for one would hesitate to send any information to an unknown E mail ID . Just my initial thoughts and would welcome others giving their views
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Old 7th July 2012, 12:30   #26
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Hi Karl,Since Cartier sent you their press release for circulation , I assume you have a connection and hopefully also involvement at some level. Any information further to that press release? Pranlal's cars are being spruced up so I assume some have been selected. Kolhapur is not interested in sending the Maybach I am told, but a silver ghost in Hyderabad, desperate to find a new owner , may show up. Gondal apparently is showing the 500K but the poona 540K is unlikely . The eight litre Bentley at a prominent Pump in Bombay is being readied, as is the Petit family Hudson which is getting a makeover in Indore.The most famous Rolls of bombay, the latest entrant in the VCCCI scene is also getting a makeover , so soon after being judged to be in concours condition .Hope to recieve regular updates from your side.
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Old 7th July 2012, 14:01   #27
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Hi Karl,Since Cartier sent you their press release for circulation , I assume you have a connection and hopefully also involvement at some level. Any information further to that press release? Pranlal's cars are being spruced up so I assume some have been selected. Kolhapur is not interested in sending the Maybach I am told, but a silver ghost in Hyderabad, desperate to find a new owner , may show up. Gondal apparently is showing the 500K but the poona 540K is unlikely . The eight litre Bentley at a prominent Pump in Bombay is being readied, as is the Petit family Hudson which is getting a makeover in Indore.The most famous Rolls of bombay, the latest entrant in the VCCCI scene is also getting a makeover , so soon after being judged to be in concours condition .Hope to recieve regular updates from your side.
The press release was sent to Team BHP as an organisation, as was to many more automotive publications. Details are carried in all the magazines this month. I simply put it up in capacity of a Moderator. I do not have ANY involvement (though I'd love to in some ways), and naturally you would have better connections than me

I'm very glad to know Pranlal's cars are being readied, that has made my day.
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Old 7th July 2012, 14:29   #28
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Thanks Karl, will we have the pleasure of drooling over your landmaster/beetle? And a sure fire winner the Presedential FIAT? At the risk of being repetitive, I have yet to see a better Fiat. The attention to detail, well it just blows your mind.
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Old 7th July 2012, 15:25   #29
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Refering to the several posts above, I was wondering how is it that cars have been selected and are being restored for the show, when the date to decide the entries is after 31st August 2012. To my mind comes the typical Indian methodology, privileged few get a jump start over others. And so it leaves little to your imagination about who will/is likely to get prizes. The hoi polloi can fill up the required numbers when the committee meets in September. What if there are better entries than a certain Royal Wraith? Will it be replaced? Fat chance. Invitations to participate may not have been issued as yet, but cars have been pre-selected, are being restored and again have a jump start over the hoi polloi.

The Cartier event is at the moment the most prestigious vintage and classic cars event in India. How come they allow the curator to restore cars which are then entered, compete and win prizes? This is very unethical for such an event.

The very fact that Cartier is now inviting applications has vindicated my posts criticising the selection process of the 2011 event and the event itself. This time Cartier did not leave the selection process entirely on Manvinder Barwani, there is this committee to take a final call. I am sure that this time the event will come close to the 2008 event, the Delhi event being forgettable. Having said this, the selection of cars is yet an issue. The curator knows almost all the cars present in India. But he goes and invites selectively and leaves the rest to applications.
After the 2008 event, I casually mentioned to him that after the Lancia I have no Cartier worthy car. He told me at least 5 cars which he said were worthy. But I never heard from him for the Delhi show, and also not for this show. At an Auto India awards function this year I met him and brought up this subject. He was taken aback, said that I know he doen't play politics, and that we could apply, and left abruptly. But nowhere did he give info where to apply. This was in April, in the middle of June come this press release.

The press release also clarified a point I was puzzled about, in that they have a new Edwardian class. The Napiers are being restored and will surely deserve a prize, but not as cars of the show.

And, just why are the applications being sent to, for us, unknown people? I believe that the emails are being replied to, but why this lack of transparency? A show of transparency is being made, but actually its semi transparent, whatever that means.

I was told that there is to be a Mercedes-Benz side show, maybe similar to the Jaguars of the Delhi event. Here no applications are invited, have the cars been selected already? There was definitely some work for this category being done.

Again, I am sure that this event will be great, great cars will be seen, if only politics was kept out of this, it would be so much better to be all inclusive rather than preselective(R).

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 7th July 2012 at 15:33.
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Old 7th July 2012, 16:28   #30
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Harit, I did get a response, no names, signed off as the cartier team. They want pictures engine and chassis numbers, history of prior ownership, first owner if known etc. Perhaps Cartier plans to write a book? They also do not say whether the details given will be made public in case the car is not selected.I agree that there is a lack of transperancy , typical of the previous shows.No criteria for selections or rejections are made public. The only difference this time is that they have thrown it open to everyone to apply. My gut feeling is that nothing has changed, cars already pre selected will be invited and the rest will be politely replied to and asked to apply next time. BUT , these are just my views, hopefully I will be proved wrong..
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