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Old 18th February 2012, 14:29   #1
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Default Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

News is going around that the third Cartier event in India will be held in less than a year.
Quite certain is
The event will be held in Mumbai
The venue will be the RWITC pologrounds, this is a different area than from the 1st event
This will be held in January 2013
A new category is being introduced
I am unlikely to be a part of it.

There are possibilities that
Mercedes-Benz is getting involved
Curator is again Manvendra Barwani

If Mercedes-Benz is involved, there is a good chance that the 540K and the other 500K make an appearance. The 540K would be the third most important car which is still in India, very suitable candidate to be the car of the show.
Looking at the movement of vintage Mercedes cars in the last year, some being asked not to disturb originality of a car by restoration, but to preserve it, makes this a possibility.
Maybe the Tata Nurnburg will also be shown, other than these three there are no high end vintage Merc known to me in India. There are some 320's and then there are plenty of 230, 260 & 290's around. Hopefully the Merc display will be better than what was done for the Jaguars the last time.
I hope that some cars from the Mallya collection and Bhogilal collection will be displayed.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 18th February 2012 at 14:32.
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Old 18th February 2012, 14:43   #2
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Princess Esra mentioned recently at the 100 year celebration of the Nizam's Rolls that both the Nizam's Napiers will be restored shortly. I assume its again being done by Cartier at their expense? These would make for a fabulous entry at the show. They are dramatic cars to say the least

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Old 18th February 2012, 14:58   #3
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

what the new category ? and thanks for the info

cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
News is going around that the third Cartier event in India will be held in less than a year.
Quite certain is
The event will be held in Mumbai
The venue will be the RWITC pologrounds, this is a different area than from the 1st event
This will be held in January 2013
A new category is being introduced
I am unlikely to be a part of it.

There are possibilities that
Mercedes-Benz is getting involved
Curator is again Manvendra Barwani

If Mercedes-Benz is involved, there is a good chance that the 540K and the other 500K make an appearance. The 540K would be the third most important car which is still in India, very suitable candidate to be the car of the show.
Looking at the movement of vintage Mercedes cars in the last year, some being asked not to disturb originality of a car by restoration, but to preserve it, makes this a possibility.
Maybe the Tata Nurnburg will also be shown, other than these three there are no high end vintage Merc known to me in India. There are some 320's and then there are plenty of 230, 260 & 290's around. Hopefully the Merc display will be better than what was done for the Jaguars the last time.
I hope that some cars from the Mallya collection and Bhogilal collection will be displayed.

Cheers harit
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Old 18th February 2012, 15:12   #4
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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The 540K would be the third most important car which is still in India
How did you work that out? That's quite precise!
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Old 18th February 2012, 15:26   #5
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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How did you work that out? That's quite precise!
That was a Fast...er...response.
We had more on our list on another thread, I would have put that Bentley ahead if it had the original body. If they have a category for rebodied cars this time also I hope to see that Bentley there.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 18th February 2012 at 15:27.
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Old 18th February 2012, 17:05   #6
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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Originally Posted by harit View Post
That was a Fast...er...response.
We had more on our list on another thread, I would have put that Bentley ahead if it had the original body. If they have a category for rebodied cars this time also I hope to see that Bentley there.

Cheers harit
I presume you mean the 8 litres? I don't think either is near concours condition! Unless these events are more about showing the cars, rather than your typical "condition" and "provenance" based shows. It's still developing in India (for the second time!).

In any event, it's nice to see people taking an interest. This movement is very different from the first one, the internet has made it far more accessible and their is more corporate sponsorship, though that was around even then.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 17:54   #7
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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I presume you mean the 8 litres?.....
I was referring to one Bentley 8 litre which belongs to a family which was associated with the vintage car movement since such a movement was ever thought of in Mumbai. It is being done up, and if there is a category for rebodied cars as in the 1st event then this should be a sure entry. There would be still time to spruce it up.

Other parts of your post I did not understand, what are "condition" and "provenance" based shows? What is developing in India for the second time? And what movement is different, and what was the first one? I am not trying to be funny, I really don't understand and so cannot comment.
About your comment on people taking interest, there are many who take interest, always have been many, but motives can be different.

About cars being invited, the Mercs mentioned is just a speculation, a posibility, so far I have not info on what and how vehicles are being selected. Maybe the organisers will put in some filters to select really the best.

Cheers harit
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Old 24th February 2012, 00:09   #8
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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Originally Posted by harit View Post
I was referring to one Bentley 8 litre which belongs to a family which was associated with the vintage car movement since such a movement was ever thought of in Mumbai. It is being done up, and if there is a category for rebodied cars as in the 1st event then this should be a sure entry. There would be still time to spruce it up.
Ah yes, but what about the Bhogilal car? I saw her a couple of years ago, when I went around to D****t to say hello and she was at the house, but not in anywhere near (what I consider) concours condition. A point about rebodied cars though. There are next to no WO Bentleys that have their original bodies. A car that is closing in on 80 years old has inevitably had some very big parts replaced! The bodies on both 8 litres are easily 40 odd years old to my knowledge. The fact that they have original chassis and engine numbers sorts them out for me.

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Originally Posted by harit View Post
Other parts of your post I did not understand, what are "condition" and "provenance" based shows? What is developing in India for the second time? And what movement is different, and what was the first one? I am not trying to be funny, I really don't understand and so cannot comment.
Perhaps inelegantly phrased by me and no intention to offend the owners of the Bentleys or cars already shown. What I mean is that from the pictures I have seen of the previous concours, the cars have been in good condition, but not much more than that. The shows abroad, using the Mille Miglia and Pebble Beach for example take into account provenance and top condition. Here we arguable have a smaller number of "top" cars (as we demonstrated in the top ten thread) so those tend to be displayed as long as they are in average+ condition. Concours condition is a terms that isn't used lightly. It's a car that is in the finest of fettle!

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About your comment on people taking interest, there are many who take interest, always have been many, but motives can be different.
I don't really give a cra* about politics etc. Didn't give much credence to any hint of that back in the 60s and don't know about the position now!

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Originally Posted by harit View Post
About cars being invited, the Mercs mentioned is just a speculation, a posibility, so far I have not info on what and how vehicles are being selected. Maybe the organisers will put in some filters to select really the best.
The 540 is a wonderful machine

Cheers harit[/quote]

Last edited by Faster789 : 24th February 2012 at 00:11.
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Old 24th February 2012, 07:34   #9
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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A point about rebodied cars though. There are next to no WO Bentleys that have their original bodies. A car that is closing in on 80 years old has inevitably had some very big parts replaced! The bodies on both 8 litres are easily 40 odd years old to my knowledge. The fact that they have original chassis and engine numbers sorts them out for me
Very true. Only a handful of Bentley 8 litres have original bodies. But when it comes to a competitive event like a concours a car will lose out to ones that still have their original coachwork and it's hardly a given that a 80 year old car needs to necessarily go through part replacements. Our 83 year old LaSalle hasn't had a speck changed on her and still is in running condition.

That said I do agree that the fact of rebody should not detract from including these amazing machines. BTW in all likelihood sometime in it's life the 2dr 8 litre got it's engine changed too as the rest of the car does not add up to what were considered Mckenzie mods at the time

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Old 24th February 2012, 07:37   #10
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
About cars being invited, the Mercs mentioned is just a speculation, a possibility,
Cheers harit
The 1935 Mercedes 500 K of Maharajkumar Shivrajsinhji Bhojrajsinhji would win hands down in the "Preservation Class". The pictures as seen in Mr. Gautam Sen's book are very awe inspiring.
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Old 25th February 2012, 19:02   #11
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

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Very true. Only a handful of Bentley 8 litres have original bodies.
A number of RRs and Bentleys came out the factory as hardtop cars. A number were changed to cabrio, and in the particular instance of Bentley, a number to the "Le Mans" look. More of a trend with Bentley than RR though.
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Old 1st March 2012, 14:01   #12
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Cartier again? Surely the interval between should be more? The first event in Bombay was the better of the two { my personal views} but was marred by the fact that invitations requested for genuine enthuisasts were not freely given whereas every broker across the country was all over the place taking pictures and offering to sell you a car or find a buyer for yours.It quite spoilt the otherwise lovely ambience at least for me. Hopefully that will not happen this time. Does anyone know which cars have recieved invites? Most should have by this time . Ideally Cartier should form a selection committee, invite owners to send details which would help in final selection of cars, and then the committee should finalize the list of selected cars. But these are just stray thoughts of an enthuisast. I guess they will do what they will do..
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Old 4th June 2012, 16:02   #13
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Default re: Third Cartier Concours d'Elegance: Feb 2013 in Mumbai (PICS on Page 19)

Just a few days back I had a chance encounter with one of the gentlemen who have been appointed event managers for the Cartier 2013 jamboree. He asked whether I was invited/informed about the event as most cars/owners were already requested to spruce up their cars.Does anyone have any idea?
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Old 14th June 2012, 13:55   #14
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I was just informed that the Gondal 500K has been invited to Cartier 2013 in bombay. The famous 540K { I say famous because it is supposed to be the oldest 540 K surviving{ has also been invited but the owner has not yet made up his mind. The Rajkot rolls was meant to go to pebble beach but was discouraged, perhaps to give the RESTORED IN INDIA cars a chance. In return offered a place at Cartier. Rest is still hush hush, at least for us commoners.
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Old 14th June 2012, 14:41   #15
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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
I was just informed that the Gondal 500K has been invited to Cartier 2013 in bombay. The famous 540K { I say famous because it is supposed to be the oldest 540 K surviving{ has also been invited but the owner has not yet made up his mind. The Rajkot rolls was meant to go to pebble beach but was discouraged, perhaps to give the RESTORED IN INDIA cars a chance. In return offered a place at Cartier. Rest is still hush hush, at least for us commoners.
Nice to hear aside from my reservations about the word "concours".

Do we have a wish list of the cars we would like to see at this event? How many cars are usually at the event itself? Ideas on which cars would be best in show?

What are the condition of the cars in the top ten thread like these days?

It would be nice to have all the big Benzs in one place.

Last edited by Faster789 : 14th June 2012 at 14:43.
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