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Old 22nd August 2012, 15:46   #91
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
A Pebble Beach contender, has a long way to go, but will be outstanding!

Cheers harit
This is the ex Ravi Kumar now Shroff or Ex Shroff 540K right ? Any idea whats so speacila bout it ? Who is the coachbuilder ?
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Old 23rd August 2012, 12:30   #92
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Kasli, only we are pleased as punch with our restorations. You must have seen European restos. Can we compare what is done here with those? I think not. We just do not have the resources in terms of expertise. About PB, well , no doubt the cars are gleaming. But dont you think its a case of going overboard? Were the cars every like this when they rolled out of the factory? Some of the cars shown are tastefully and correctly restored. Others, well , garish would be an understatement. Wasif, the Ex shroff 540 k has very pretty lines but entirely re bodied by delhi/ Manvinder. Historically a very interesting car, if I am not mistaken, perhaps the oldest known 540k? Its a pity the current owner has not got it running. Hopefully she will be sent to Germany for a proper restoration. She deserves nothing but the very best. KAsli, back to you. Do you really believe there will be many contenders from here for PB? The costs being what they are, not to mention the hassles of permissions/ formalities for taking a car out, I cannot think of even five owners who would do so. Of course, if sponsors were forthcoming, it would be a different scene altogether.

Last edited by Bulldogji : 23rd August 2012 at 12:38.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 12:57   #93
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Default Re: Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)

Dear Bulldogji.

Would love to hear more about the history of the 540K, what was its original body like and why was it rebodies ? Any idea who were the original owners etc ?

Yes, most if not all the cars at PB are made to look much better than what they did when they came out of the factory / coachbuilder....but thats what PB is all about. Who would want to see such superb cars wearing drab paintjobs or not too shiny chrome / brass anyway.

Its not because of lack of knowledge or expertise or want of trying that Indian restorations are lacking but due to the lack of specialist suppliers and superior workmanship that is prevalent in the west.

If the government was a bit supportive and sponsors could be arranged I am sure many owners in India with significant cars would be interested in being invited to future PB events.

I wonder why the Jodhpur Delahaye was not considered as a potential entrant in the Maharaja Class, it might have ended up winning the best of show with a bit of sprucing up in LA at one of the great restoration shops.

And check out th pic below.....they managed to pot a Tiger after all it appears !
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Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)-tiger-car.jpg  

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Old 23rd August 2012, 14:53   #94
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Kasli, only we are pleased as punch with our restorations. ....... We just do not have the resources in terms of expertise.......the Ex shroff 540 k has very pretty lines but entirely re bodied ........ Do you really believe there will be many contenders from here for PB? ........
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Dear Bulldogji. Would love to hear more about the history of the 540K, .........If the government was a bit supportive and sponsors could be arranged ................I wonder why the Jodhpur Delahaye was not considered as a potential entrant in the Maharaja Class,................ And check out th pic below.....they managed to pot a Tiger after all it appears !
Bulldogji, Pleased as punch is aptly said, and sometimes you dare not criticize (cars and/or clubs), or do so at the risk of your head being bitten off.

I got a preliminary feedback about our "PB" cars, the Star did not shine as much as it had become drab in places with dings, Delage had some chrome issues, panel mis-allignments, expensive leather was used but the makers stamp was visible. The 20HP was not a contender, I have no feedback on that, and PB gave a sort of consolation prize for it which was a nice gesture.
The devil lies in the detail, but you must also act in time. All our entries were very late, cars must be scheduled to be completed months in advance so that they can be detailed at leisure. Our participants foolishly missed out the opportunity to get some chrome done in USA.

Wasifji, 540K has Nepal and Akalkot connections, and spent time in a garage in Mumbai. She is the third oldest 540K. I doubt that a full rebody was done, she has a sports body quite rakish and the stepney located on the rear.

The Delahaye in fact was considered, as was the aluminium Jodhpur PII which was worked on in UK, but the problem was the expense. And just why should the government be supportive, was the government involved in any way ever? But the clubs, oh yes, they could be more supportive, KVCC did give the required letters for the Delage to go out. But they would not be able to sponsor or contribute to expenses. As you saw, our Captains were present, I doubt they contributed to our movement.

The poor potted Tiger looks more like having had a heart attack than being shot, maybe they were using vintage rifles which backfired. And that was not the Tiger meant to be found on the golf course.

PB will always attract the over restored cars, the outrageously glamorous vehicles which look better than when they were new also because better and newer materials/technologies are available. So there is the barn-find class, very notable, very much applauded and then hardly mentioned or showcased as well as the glitzy cars are. In India we are where they were maybe 25 years ago, we have a long way to go. I am sure that if there is a reasonable proposal, some Indian owners may take their cars to PB in the coming years. This was the first time, a novelty, and so next time be well prepared in time when participating in future.

About a sponsor, there can be issues. If Willingdon club were to sponsor my entry, would they not expect me to carry some advertisement for them on my car, and then drive I at PB saying please play Golf at Wilingdon Mumbai? Conflicts could happen. There must be rules when one enters PB, maybe even towards sponsoring of an entry and the advertising. Sponsorship may not be practical and may not happen.

If PB were to have a partner country/club, Government involvement becomes possible.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 23rd August 2012 at 15:07.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 23:40   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogji
Kasli, only we are pleased as punch with our restorations. You must have seen European restos. Can we compare what is done here with those? I think not. We just do not have the resources in terms of expertise. About PB, well , no doubt the cars are gleaming. But dont you think its a case of going overboard? Were the cars every like this when they rolled out of the factory? Some of the cars shown are tastefully and correctly restored. Others, well , garish would be an understatement. Wasif, the Ex shroff 540 k has very pretty lines but entirely re bodied by delhi/ Manvinder. Historically a very interesting car, if I am not mistaken, perhaps the oldest known 540k? Its a pity the current owner has not got it running. Hopefully she will be sent to Germany for a proper restoration. She deserves nothing but the very best. KAsli, back to you. Do you really believe there will be many contenders from here for PB? The costs being what they are, not to mention the hassles of permissions/ formalities for taking a car out, I cannot think of even five owners who would do so. Of course, if sponsors were forthcoming, it would be a different scene altogether.
Bulldogji, I meant in terms of contenders not the restoration. But do agreed we are only pleased as punch with our restorations. No comparison on any finishes done here compare to overseas. Knowledge on materials is also important , they have a head start of alot of years on us. Thats why who use their facilities share that knowledge with others. Thats all part of the movement. Attention and time to restore in important but as always stress makes us all move to complete a car for whatever reason. But that is true for all of us, select few exempted from this statement. PB is the overboard show and bling. It's how it's defined now and for years to come.

Yes the 540 k is one of the oldest chassis number 130902 if not mistaken, subject to correction but I know it's that or one digit lower.
The cost leaving aside but I sense there will be a certain rush for being a part of the PB brigade soon. Well I hope they go with knowing the challenges and details involved and then the Expense. After the stalwarts of the movement have visited permissions and formalities will be easy commitments would have been made . Hehe

Cheers

Last edited by kasli : 23rd August 2012 at 23:47.
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Old 24th August 2012, 00:37   #96
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Cathay Pacifics Facebook page has the wonderful Delage ready to be shipped at the cargo hold.

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Old 24th August 2012, 10:56   #97
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Default Re: Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)

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Cathay Pacifics Facebook page has the wonderful Delage ready to be shipped at the cargo hold.

Attachment 974361
This picture taken while going or coming back so soon?

Cheers harit
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Old 24th August 2012, 11:54   #98
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This picture taken while going or coming back so soon?

Cheers harit
While going for the event
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Old 24th August 2012, 12:06   #99
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Harit you talk about CAPTAINS of the industry, Kasli, you call them STALWARTS> Can either of you educate me? Just who are these people??? Amazing the number of cars at PB built to hunt Tigers. Seems as if every car ordered by Indian royalty was for hunting Tigers? And people really believe this rubbish? A stuffed tiger at the back. What next I wonder? A stuffed Maharaja?? Remember the Tiger Rolls with a machine gun? Harit, the Delage was probably photgraphed in India on its way out, being air lifted due to paucity of time. I guess she will have an ozone filled lazy return home.
Hopefully our entrants will share there experiences with us soon, and more so with the owners of the two cars that could not make it, but have been promised a chance next year. Now for Indians at least the attention will turn to Cartier 2013. Hopefully we will have the list of cars selected once the last date for applying is over. Will be interesting . Apart from Pranlals cars, a french bodied pre war Bentley from Bombay has also been invited.
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Old 24th August 2012, 12:14   #100
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Originally Posted by Bulldogji
Harit you talk about CAPTAINS of the industry, Kasli, you call them STALWARTS> Can either of you educate me? Just who are these people??? Amazing the number of cars at PB built to hunt Tigers. Seems as if every car ordered by Indian royalty was for hunting Tigers? And people really believe this rubbish? A stuffed tiger at the back. What next I wonder? A stuffed Maharaja?? Remember the Tiger Rolls with a machine gun? Harit, the Delage was probably photgraphed in India on its way out, being air lifted due to paucity of time. I guess she will have an ozone filled lazy return home.
Hopefully our entrants will share there experiences with us soon, and more so with the owners of the two cars that could not make it, but have been promised a chance next year. Now for Indians at least the attention will turn to Cartier 2013. Hopefully we will have the list of cars selected once the last date for applying is over. Will be interesting . Apart from Pranlals cars, a french bodied pre war Bentley from Bombay has also been invited.
The stalwarts and captains are one we all are familiar with. I called them Stalwarts as respect in totality. Cartier 2013 is the first look out and will like to see the French bodied Bentley I last heard it was shaping well.

The write on hunting cars at PB , funny the cars were first hunted and then turned Hunters. Hehe

Sharing of information and knowledge is most important. Hope the participants do the needful

Cheers
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Old 24th August 2012, 12:26   #101
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A stuffed tiger at the back. What next I wonder? A stuffed Maharaja?? Remember the Tiger Rolls with a machine gun? ............ a french bodied pre war Bentley from Bombay has also been invited.
Me thinks that was photoshopped Stuffed Maharaja, good one.

About the Cartier event, remember about what I cautioned before. Regarding the invites mentioned, were they verbal or confirmed in writing? I also heard about the Bentley's participation, maybe a Rolls also. 31st August is not far off, maybe the list of participants will be out soon.

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.... I called them Stalwarts as respect in totality. Write on hunting cars at PB , funny the cars were first hunted and then turned Hunters. Hehe Cheers
totality? what does that sentence mean? Could not understand. Who was a stalward, who was a Captain, who was a tourist?

Cheers harit

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Old 25th August 2012, 14:55   #102
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She appeared in the Mille Miglia 2011 in new clothes. courtesy:Flickr
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Hmm - interesting choice of colours! Wonder if she will appear unchanged for the event.
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Very intresting combo
I spoke to a gent from Mercedes (who now owns this car), and he confirmed to me that this was the original colour combo of the car when first on display at a show. The car was subsequently purchased by Kashmir, and converted to RHD by the works themselves. In person the colour combo has grown on me, initially I didn't care much for it. The restoration job, needless to say, is out of this world, at least to my untrained eye. Unfortunately just before she could drive up to the ramp there were some mechanical glitches. Rather embaressingly, 3 cars from the Maharaja class faced trouble - the Delage, the Mercedes and the Swan car. But then again, so did the prize winning Mercedes 540K, but that conked conveniently on her way back to the spot after taking the prize.

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Old 26th August 2012, 07:48   #103
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Here are the prize winners from the Maharaja class in their present form and when they were in India (where possible). All images are taken from the forum itself.

1935 Duesenberg J Gurney Nutting Speedster, ex Holkar, now William Lyons

Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)-01.jpg

1930 Bentley #LR2778 6-1/2 litre Mulliner DHC, ex Jaipur, now John & Gwen McCaw (old shot, but not in India - I don't think we have any shots of the car in India, do we?)

Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)-02.jpg

1935 Hispano-Suiza J12 de Villars Cabriolet, ex Rajkot, now Rober M Lee.

Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)-03.jpg

1925 Rolls Royce Phantom I Barker Sports Torpedo Tourer, ex Bikaner, now Sir Michael Kadoorie. (not sure if both pictures are the same car, can someone confirm?)

Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)-04.jpg

1937 Rolls Royce Phantom III Thrupp & Maberly Tourer, ex Bhopal, later Patiala, now Keith & Kenneth Sherper. (I spoke to the owner who said the registration PUA 700 was from the time it was with Patiala. Old shot already out of India).

Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)-05.jpg

1937 Rolls Royce Phantom III Thrupp & Maberly Drophead, ex Darbhanga, now Willian B. Ruger Jr.

Indians and their Cars at Pebble Beach (PB)-06.jpg
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Old 26th August 2012, 09:25   #104
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Funny you mention the combo and being one of the original ones with the car. I have just got a scale model of a 170 v cabriolet and it also has the simple combo . I shall attach some images soon for comparison .

Cheers


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Originally Posted by karlosdeville

I spoke to a gent from Mercedes (who now owns this car), and he confirmed to me that this was the original colour combo of the car when first on display at a show. The car was subsequently purchased by Kashmir, and converted to RHD by the works themselves. In person the colour combo has grown on me, initially I didn't care much for it. The restoration job, needless to say, is out of this world, at least to my untrained eye. Unfortunately just before she could drive up to the ramp there were some mechanical glitches. Rather embaressingly, 3 cars from the Maharaja class faced trouble - the Delage, the Mercedes and the Swan car. But then again, so did the prize winning Mercedes 540K, but that conked conveniently on her way back to the spot after taking the prize.
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Old 26th August 2012, 18:32   #105
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Here are the prize winners from the Maharaja class in their present form and when they were in India (where possible). All images are taken from the forum itself.
Karlos, super job with the comparison shots
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