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Old 19th February 2011, 21:31   #3601
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
The old Willys Station Wagon is quite famous and was a tough workhorse of its times. The 4x4 version was like any Willys jeep (there was no 2WD jeep then) and was tougher that many SUV's of today.
Many of us may not know but the fact is that Mahindra and Mahindra mated the Hurricane engine (petrol) and gearbox and made it available with this Station Wagon body introduced sometime in 1978. It was the second coming for the Willys kind of Station Wagon. The body was a bit crude here and was not like the old American one.
This is one example in its original two tone paint.
I believe I have written about this kind of Mahindra in some earlier posts.
These never came with a diesel (though the MD 2350 International Harvester engine was a star diesel engine of the 1970's) and only a few units were sold. The model was soon made to call it quits!
Attachment 504448
Hi.

I am a bit intrigued with this picture.

Do you mean to say that this car in the picture was made and sold by M&M in 1978? It appears to have four doors
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Old 19th February 2011, 22:07   #3602
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Hi.

I am a bit intrigued with this picture.

Do you mean to say that this car in the picture was made and sold by M&M in 1978? It appears to have four doors
Wasif,

It actually had 3 doors plus a tail gate - 2 front and one rear + tailgate. A few of these are still doing duty as taxis in Panchgani. Karlos had posted a few photos of these.

In their Hurricane engine versions they were the most comfortable off road vehicles in those days and really roomy too.

The tailgate was so designed that it could be used as a loadbed for long things which dis not fit in it. I used to be very amused with the rear number plate light combo which was mounted on the tail gate.

When tail gate is down the number plate-light combo - spring loaded - could be pulled out to be in a vertcal position so that it would be visible from rear even when the gate was down

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram
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Old 19th February 2011, 23:06   #3603
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Hi.

I am a bit intrigued with this picture.

Do you mean to say that this car in the picture was made and sold by M&M in 1978? It appears to have four doors
Yes indeed Wasif. This is the original 32 year old factory paint too! True as r_nairtvm says it has a tailgate which opens in the Willys Station Wagon pattern- rear window up and the lower part below the window downward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r_nairtvm View Post
Wasif,

It actually had 3 doors plus a tail gate - 2 front and one rear + tailgate. A few of these are still doing duty as taxis in Panchgani. Karlos had posted a few photos of these.

In their Hurricane engine versions they were the most comfortable off road vehicles in those days and really roomy too.

The tailgate was so designed that it could be used as a loadbed for long things which dis not fit in it. I used to be very amused with the rear number plate light combo which was mounted on the tail gate.

When tail gate is down the number plate-light combo - spring loaded - could be pulled out to be in a vertcal position so that it would be visible from rear even when the gate was down

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram
Thanks r_nairtvm for the information that these ply as taxis till this day in Panchgani. These were very comfortable for long drives.
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Old 20th February 2011, 09:32   #3604
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

But in the picture you can clearly see two door handles ?????
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Old 20th February 2011, 12:55   #3605
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
But in the picture you can clearly see two door handles ?????
You are absolutely right wasif. There were Willys station wagons made for export which had a door on the passenger-side and not on the driver-side,
so they were 3 doors + tailgate, not 4 doors + tailgate.

Name:  1960Willys3doorwagon.jpg
Views: 2756
Size:  51.7 KB

Ram
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Old 23rd February 2011, 01:58   #3606
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
(there was no 2WD jeep then) .......Many of us may not know but the fact is that Mahindra and Mahindra mated the Hurricane engine (petrol) and gearbox and made it available with this Station Wagon body introduced sometime in 1978. Attachment 504448

Hi!

There were 2WD Station Wagon with Hurricane F-134 right from 1960's in India. The wagon in the picture can also be a similar model with local bodywork with an extra door for the back seat for convenience. I have seen a few local built 3 Dr /4Dr Station Wagons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
It had a white bakelite two spoke steering wheel with a black boss defined by bright rings and in the centre was Willys big curvy "W" logo.

The same logo was on the chrome bonnet ornament, and embellished in red on the chrome hubcaps.
Ram
This may well be a 2WD station wagon which came with standard Whitewalls, Crome Hub Caps & two tone colour. This picture may ring a bell.

Name:  ae1016.jpg
Views: 6231
Size:  54.3 KB

There was a similar vehicle in http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post1820165 (Old Bollywood & Indian Films : The Best Archives for Old Cars) posted by Stahner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
You are absolutely right wasif. There were Willys station wagons made for export which had a door on the passenger-side and not on the driver-side,
so they were 3 doors + tailgate, not 4 doors + tailgate.
Ram

There were very few 3 dr station wagons made in US, The photo shown for reference is Argentina's ESTANCIERA WAGON


regards

- invinci
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Old 23rd February 2011, 11:37   #3607
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
It had nothing whatsoever to do with the Willys Jeep Station Wagon. The Willys wagon was the world's first mass-market all-steel (as in non-woodie) SUV.
I am sure to have seen a woody Willys Station Wagon.

What could that be if the Willys Station Wagon was never a woody? Even the internet says that these were steel bodied, but it also throws up pictures of a woody Willy's Station Wagon.

What is correct?

Last edited by Spitfire : 23rd February 2011 at 11:40.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 12:21   #3608
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I am sure to have seen a woody Willys Station Wagon.

What could that be if the Willys Station Wagon was never a woody? Even the internet says that these were steel bodied, but it also throws up pictures of a woody Willy's Station Wagon.

What is correct?
An all steel wagon with steel formers and longerons lacquered to resemble white ash wood.

Even the infill panels could be steel sheeting, coated with simulated woodgrain sheet as-in 3M's DI-NOC vinyl sheet to look like mahogany.

Is it so hard to imagine? When a woodie is on fire, one will know how wood burns and how steel burns!
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Old 23rd February 2011, 16:32   #3609
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I am sure to have seen a woody Willys Station Wagon.

What could that be if the Willys Station Wagon was never a woody? Even the internet says that these were steel bodied, but it also throws up pictures of a woody Willy's Station Wagon.

What is correct?
The vey early Willys Station wagons were bought cabonly and turned into actual woody wagons by some independnt coachbuilders.

They loked identical to teh factory "faux" woddy wagons but up close theywere a bit smaller in size and much more delicate.

There was a black woody with my grandfater for a long time. I stillremember how it used t creak when it got wet
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Old 23rd February 2011, 19:21   #3610
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by invinci View Post
Hi!

There were 2WD Station Wagon with Hurricane F-134 right from 1960's in India. The wagon in the picture can also be a similar model with local bodywork with an extra door for the back seat for convenience. I have seen a few local built 3 Dr /4Dr Station Wagons.
There were very few 3 dr station wagons made in US, The photo shown for reference is Argentina's ESTANCIERA WAGON
regards
- invinci
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Ram the Station wagon I am referring is a Indian version of the old one. I have used this one featured here during its hey days and its different from any CJ 3A,B,4A and so on. The chassis used by Mahindra is the same one used in older Station Wagons, though the body is Indian made and designed.
Its different and hence I have specifically mentioned that many may not be aware of the fact that M&M introduced this version for a short period in 1978.
I am not sure as to why they did not introduce the MD2350 diesel with this model but the Hurricane.
As I have repeatedly said this Mahindra (badged Mahindra)is a factory body built Station Wagon and has no connection with all the American ones cited.
I have seen this one in a brand new condition and have travelled in this one featured in the picture. It was bought from the local Mahindra showroom. No modification whatsoever was done of any kind on this one.It even has the 1978 original factory (thats Kandivili, Bombay) paint.Obviously this was built indigenously by M&M with whatever relics of the tooling and dies and casts they had as leftovers of the older American Station Wagons of the 1950's and 60's.
After the A pillar its the indigenously designed body with 4 doors and the tailgate as already described.
I hope this clears all doubts about the motor vehicle.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 19:56   #3611
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

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I hope this clears all doubts about the motor vehicle.
This is really a rare find, Thanks for the information.

regards

- Invinci
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Old 24th February 2011, 19:50   #3612
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

Dear Anjan / Ram - reference your posts above, I presume you are talking about the station wagon type of vehicle sketched by Ram (the one with the long bonnet). I joined M&M Kandivli plant as a trainee on 16 June 1980 after passing my engineering from Mumbai University (VJTI). I have interacted very closely with all following very fine gentlemen who were handling R&D / Product Engineering in M&M at that time. They were Mr.S.Ramachandran (fondly known as "RC") / Mr.K.S.Parthasarathy / Mr.M.V.Venkateswaran (my Boss till 2002) / Mr.J.S.Vaidya / Mr.Sushil Waman Welingkar (he owned a BMF registered station wagon in immaculate condition, he, alongwith my teacher / mentor Mr.Vijay Dandge who is today Vice President - Manufacturing, also participated in the Jeepers Jamboree held in USA in 1981/82) / Mr.Barasara / Mr.H.K.Vaishnav and Mr.K.S.Nagaraj. If station wagons were indeed made in 1978, I would have known in 1980. I would have seen toolings / fixtures / parts and we would have worked on warranty / field issues. Nothing of the sort was available in Kandivli in 1980. I have seen only three surviving examples of station wagons in Kandivli in 1980. In R&D we had MRX8592, a blue 4WD station wagon which Mr.Ramachandran used. His driver's name was Mr.Achuten. The second one was a station wagon owned by Mr.Veeraiah who was the incharge of the tool room in Kandivli. I used to maintain his station wagon in exchange for he giving priority to my work on the jig boring machine (I used this indirect influence and machined the complete bell housing for the first Ambassador car MMB7342 fitted with our XDP4.90 diesel engine - the car was a rocket in those days but would not stop as the non-booster brakes just did not live up. We also broke everything but we learnt). The third station wagon was Mr.Welingkar's. If I am correct, it was BMF7026. I am attaching a picture that I have. All three had the legendary F4/134 petrol engines and believe you me, they were "whisper quiet". My teacher in the R&D workshop Mr.P.Vincent (he retired from R&D Nasik in March 2009, I still miss him every day) used to adjust the carburettors and idle these engines to as low as 375 rpm. The tickover was just wonderful. It still brings a quiet smile to my face.

What I am trying to say is that I don't think these long bonnet station wagons were made in 1978. They seem to have been made in the 1960s. The registrations BMF (1961) and MRX (1962) also seem to confirm the same. I may not be correct. I am just putting my thoughts across. Please let me have your comments. If by chance you are meaning some other vehicle, please post a photograph and I will give you my comments immediately because I have worked on all vehicles of Kandivli at that time of my career.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 24th February 2011, 20:25   #3613
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

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Saw this Vaxhuall from the 1950s last year in the yard between Forum and Reliance. They were taking it away. Some middle - aged man there told me he would be restoring and selling it. He asked me if I was interested in buying too.
Arkin - did he quote any price for it?
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Old 24th February 2011, 21:50   #3614
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

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Dear Anjan / Ram - reference your posts above, I presume you are talking about the station wagon type of vehicle sketched by Ram (the one with the long bonnet).
Yes sir. That's the vehicle.

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If station wagons were indeed made in 1978, I would have known in 1980. I would have seen toolings / fixtures / parts and we would have worked on warranty / field issues. Nothing of the sort was available in Kandivli in 1980.
I agree with you. I was in 4th year engineering in 1978 and my friend Girish R. Garware used to work at M&M. His father Mr. Rajaram Garware was with Mahindras earlier. Noisy, low powered Perkins and Simpson agricultural diesels were used to power Jeeps. Girish had mentioned that they would someday induct the French Peugeot XDP 4.90 diesel engines in future. This finally saw light of day as the engine in the 1979 Mahindra NC665DP Jeep truck with a canvas top over the cab.

Quote:
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What I am trying to say is that I don't think these long bonnet station wagons were made in 1978. They seem to have been made in the 1960s.
Absolutely true. As per my memory, the last of the Willys branded station wagons was in 1965. And the Mahindra logo was never ever applied to these station wagons.
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Old 25th February 2011, 00:21   #3615
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Default Re: Rust In Pieces... Pics of Disintegrating Classic & Vintage Cars

anjan_c2007, Ram , Wasif and DHABHAR.BEHRAM all you guys have gone

But the kind of knowledge you guys share on such topics make these threads the BEST

Thank you all for the knowledge shared on such topics, hope to learn more.

BTW, Bangalore has many such Stationwagons, but not many running though.
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