Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Vintage Cars & Classics in India


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th December 2017, 11:30   #1
BHPian
 
TusharK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pune
Posts: 844
Thanked: 6,455 Times
Default NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

The National Green Tribunal (NGT) has announced that vintage and classic cars will be permanently exempted from the ban on 15-year old vehicles. Antique cars that satisfy the prescribed norms under the Motor Vehicles Act will be allowed to ply on roads for exhibitions, rallies and maintenance.

NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles-mercury01.jpg

The bench headed by NGT Chairperson Justice Swatanter Kumar referred to Rule 92 (2)(c) of the Central Motor Vehicles Rules, 1989 and Section 59 of the Motor Vehicles Act, 1988 which grants an exemption to “antique/vintage” vehicles.

The tribunal also observed that the applicant association of vintage car owners (Heritage Motoring Club of India) should contribute to conservation of the environment by planting trees and providing dustbins.

In November 2014, the NGT had ordered vehicles older than 15-years to be banned from plying on the roads of Delhi. This meant classic cars owner couldn’t take part in vintage car rallies and other events. Meanwhile, the ban on 10-year old diesel vehicles is to stay.

Source: NDTV

Link to Team-BHP News
TusharK is offline   (15) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2017, 11:41   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
abhishek46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,116
Thanked: 2,190 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Just wondering what Car qualifies as Vintage.

Will a 20 year old Tata Sierra or 15 year old Indica be considered as Vintage?
abhishek46 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2017, 11:44   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
PrideRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BLR/PTR
Posts: 1,273
Thanked: 2,128 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Just wondering what Car qualifies as Vintage.

Will a 20 year old Tata Sierra or 15 year old Indica be considered as Vintage?
The Omni's are sure shot candidate. There should be some which are 30 years old and definitely are vintage. The 1980's batch had made in Japan parts .
PrideRed is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2017, 11:56   #4
Distinguished - BHPian
 
libranof1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: All over!
Posts: 4,351
Thanked: 4,371 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Just wondering what Car qualifies as Vintage.
There's a thread here discussing just that

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post2313028 (Vintage and Classic Car Definition: India)

But this is what the article states:

Quote:
As per the order, vintage and classic cars registered under the Motor Vehicles Act to be used for exhibitions, rallies and maintenance will be permanently from the ban.

The ban will affect over 10,000 vintage vehicles in the country that span from 1886 to 1987, which had an uncertain future.
libranof1987 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2017, 11:02   #5
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 50,154
Thanked: 106,627 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Mod Note: Thread moved to the Classic Car section!

Quote:
Antique cars that satisfy the prescribed norms under the Motor Vehicles Act will be allowed to ply on roads for exhibitions, rallies and maintenance.
Good they added that last point. So now, any classic car owner can take his ride out for a Sunday drive. If a cop pulls him over, he can say that he's taking the car to the garage or testing it after recent repairs.
GTO is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2017, 15:02   #6
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: planet earth
Posts: 811
Thanked: 949 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Mod Note: Thread moved to the Classic Car section!



Good they added that last point. So now, any classic car owner can take his ride out for a Sunday drive. If a cop pulls him over, he can say that he's taking the car to the garage or testing it after recent repairs.
Sadly he cannot say this if his wife and family are in the car
Bulldogji is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2017, 17:40   #7
KPS
Distinguished - BHPian
 
KPS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,120
Thanked: 5,432 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Just wondering what Car qualifies as Vintage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
The Omni's are sure shot candidate. There should be some which are 30 years old and definitely are vintage.
Whilst in the developed world, they do consider 30 years on a rolling year basis, in India it has been fixed at 50 years from date of registration on a rolling basis. Thus as of 2017, cars earlier to 1967 are exempt from the NGT Ban. Hope this clarifies!

As a matter of interest we do follow classification for vintage and classic cars
  1. Veteran Cars are up to 1905
  2. Edwardian Cars are from 1906 to 1919
  3. Vintage Cars from 1920 to 1939
  4. Classic Cars from 1940. Please note that factors, including engine displacement, coachwork and luxury accessories, help determine whether a car is considered a Classic.

Again many countries have done away with the above classifications and follow the 30 years rolling rule. In India most clubs do follow the above classifications. Thus by default, we can follow the 50 years rule, post the NGT order

Cheers

KPS
KPS is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2017, 21:02   #8
Distinguished - BHPian
 
anjan_c2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 5,640
Thanked: 5,316 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

The NGT order of 18/12/2017 is a landmark decision as there has been nothing forthcoming from either the Union government or the State governments during the past many decades to give a fillip for the long term conservation of the old beauties, that are depleting in numbers due to the total apathy of the powers that be. The only small positive step taken recently was in April 2013, when imports of pre 1950 cars were liberalised by the Directorate General of Foreign Trade (DGFT) under the Union Ministry of Commerce.Though big collectors have been able to import quite a few rare cars, as a result, we can only hope that the imports reach out hassle free to the average vintage/classic car lover. Only then, can the exorbitant prices being asked for by some sellers in our country can be rationalised. It will also enrich our wealth of the beauties, many of which have been plundered by the scrapper's guillotine or by the rampant exports (many of them illegal and criminal).

Back to the NGT judgement, this judgement will have long term ramifications and can be used in any court of law, should there be any contrary decisions either by the legislature , executive or judiciary of any state or Union Territory.

The target was to cover all 50 year old automobiles as I was told which means that all motor vehicles older than 1967 are under its ambit ( I may please be corrected if such is not the decision) , though the judgement nowhere mentions the age of the motor vehicle covered.

The argument by the opposite party (Mr Vardhaman Kaushik ) that whenever an old automobile is driven, the owner should pay a cost was argued by Adv K.T.S. Tulsi (M.P. Rajya Sabha) effectively , saying its impractical and that there is no question of imposition of a cost on every vintage car also considering that an owner spends several years and personal resources in restoring his cars which are a part of our national heritage.

Its our special thanks to the members of the HMCI and especially Advocate K.T.S. Tulsi , Advocate Diljeet Titus , Mr Shivanand Jatti for taking up the matter on the national stage.

NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles-img20171220wa0006.jpg

(Judgement courtesy Shri Diljeet Titus)

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 20th December 2017 at 21:15.
anjan_c2007 is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st December 2017, 19:17   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BANG-A-LURE.
Posts: 1,144
Thanked: 3,771 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Kudos to the people behind this.

I am disappointed i could not do anything on this though few people had approached our group Drive Without Borders.

Waseem.
SILVERWOOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2017, 10:00   #10
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: planet earth
Posts: 811
Thanked: 949 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Anjan, thank you for posting the order.

A bare reading makes it clear that the application was made primarily to register these cars.Nowhere do I read that they can be driven to garages for maintenance etc.

Therefore it is bound to lead to arguments on the road.

Also, India defines an ANTIQUE as anything over 100 years, so how many cars can avail of this order?

It would help during arguments with traffic police if all owners carry a certified copy of the order whilst driving these beauties.

Hopefully even the police may not know the definition of the word antique.

Last edited by Bulldogji : 22nd December 2017 at 10:05.
Bulldogji is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2017, 13:14   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,110
Thanked: 90 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Hello Enlightened Members.
I was refused a NOC from Delhi to Mumbai citing this NGT Ban, for my RR Silver Seraph 2000 model. what would be the status now?
I would consider this car as a modern classic in making due to limited production of approx. 600 pieces in RHD version, during the transition of the ownership of the Company.
Is there a way one can, make a request to some authority or pursue the matter and get an NOC from Delhi to Mumbai?
The best part is, The car carries a Delhi number, though I have paid the Tax[20 odd lacs] for Maharashtra some years back, and cannot transfer registration here till noc is received!
So much for our "Acche Din Aayenge" Slogan, and next elections will come sooner than we realise in 2019!
scooby05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2017, 14:32   #12
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,571
Thanked: 9,309 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post
Whilst in the developed world, they do consider 30 years on a rolling year basis, in India it has been fixed at 50 years from date of registration on a rolling basis. Thus as of 2017, cars earlier to 1967 are exempt from the NGT Ban. Hope this clarifies!

Again many countries have done away with the above classifications and follow the 30 years rolling rule. In India most clubs do follow the above classifications. Thus by default, we can follow the 50 years rule, post the NGT order
If anything I find that what qualifies as a classic car in Western Europe has become more and more complex and diverse, despite it being the EU.

It’s mostly due to new emission type of regulations at national and at local (city) levels.

There was a time that roughly speaking anything 25 years and older would qualify as a classic. Depending on where you find yourself in the world there are different aspects to your car being a classic:

- Whether you are allowed to use your car at all
- Whether you are eligible for no or reduced road tax
- How often the car needs a MOT (Mandatory annual safety inspection)
- Whether your car is eligible for classic car insurance (much, much cheaper)

In my home country the Netherlands it used to be very simple. The day your car became 25 years old, it became a “classic car. That meant no more road tax and cheap classic car (fully comprehensive insurances). Over the last decade the various governments have been messing around with this rule. The whole idea about the no road tax was that cars 25 years and older would only be used as hobby cars and have very limited use. Research over the years has shown that the average classic owner drives less than 2000 km / year. There was an exception though. Around 2005/7 the first Mercedes W123 became 25 years old, followed by the W124. People started buying old diesel version and run them very cheaply. No road tax, cheap insurance, cheap to maintain etc. So they were actually using them as their daily drives. Of course, especially the green parties were up in arms and several times over the 25 year ruling was altered.

Roughly speaking a car in the Netherlands needs to be 40 years old before it is a classic and no road tax is due. There is an interim regime for cars that were exempt from road tax before and now have to pay road tax again. Both my Alfa Romeo and my Mercedes are part on this interim regime. I only pay one quarter of road tax, so not completely free, but from 1st of December till 28th of February the cars are not allowed on the public road. This interim regime is applicable to petrol cars only. Not for diesels. So the W123/124 diesel population is completely wiped out in the Netherlands now.

Road tax is not cheap. Full annual road tax on a petrol w123 would be around Euro 500 and on a diesel more than double! To push that in perspective; my son and a friend of him, bought their Mercedes W123 for Euro 900!

But here’s the thing. We have cities that start introducing their own emission zones. So I can take my cars in some cities and some others I can’t.

Classic car insurances have maintained their definition on what constitutes a classic cars more or less the same: 25 years or older, usually with a limitation on annual mileage.

Anyway, glad to see this exempt has come into place. Good job of all involved!

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2018, 15:27   #13
BHPian
 
tbppjpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: India
Posts: 596
Thanked: 492 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Here is interview in a nice 360° video with various Vintage car restorers after NGT lifts ban on classic cars, enjoy the 360° view of various vintage cars:

https://www.facebook.com/vinoddua/vi...1731251234531/

tbppjpr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2018, 20:06   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Thrissur Kerala
Posts: 24
Thanked: 45 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Just wondering what Car qualifies as Vintage.

Will a 20 year old Tata Sierra or 15 year old Indica be considered as Vintage?
1.Vintage Cars manufactured up-to 1940

2. Classic Cars manufactured up-to 1941-1970

3.Indian Classic Cars ,, ,, 1948-1970
Jacob Alenghat is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2018, 09:23   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Stanher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad, AP
Posts: 6,400
Thanked: 1,773 Times
Default Re: NGT exempts vintage cars from ban on 15-year old vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Alenghat View Post
1.Vintage Cars manufactured up-to 1940

2. Classic Cars manufactured up-to 1941-1970

3.Indian Classic Cars ,, ,, 1948-1970
Your source for the above data? Just so it could be helpful for owners of such vehicles (or is it only for cars?) to quote from when required.
Stanher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
July 2016: NGT tells Delhi to deregister all Diesel Vehicles over 10 years old manishkapadia The Indian Car Scene 263 6th August 2018 22:04
NGT gives a blanket ban to commercial diesel vehicles on Rohtang Pass tsk1979 Route / Travel Queries 40 12th July 2018 19:25
Proposal to ban 15 year old vehicles. EDIT: Concept paper released on page 18 Leepower The Indian Car Scene 278 8th June 2018 23:43
NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban darklord The Indian Car Scene 284 25th March 2017 21:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:25.

Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks