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Old 5th July 2014, 08:20   #2281
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Originally Posted by //M View Post
Yes it looks similar to Mr. Tutu Dhawan's Morgan, but is this based on a Contessa? I doubt.

Apparently the owner found this carcase lying half buried in some tea estate in Assam, procured it from there and built it to what is now a gleaming beauty.
Please ask your friendAvik to open the bonnet and check

Fairy tales when related nicely make for good bedtime stories
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Old 5th July 2014, 10:52   #2282
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Yes it looks similar to Mr. Tutu Dhawan's Morgan, but is this based on a Contessa? I doubt.

Apparently the owner found this carcase lying half buried in some tea estate in Assam, procured it from there and built it to what is now a gleaming beauty.
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Please ask your friendAvik to open the bonnet and check

Fairy tales when related nicely make for good bedtime stories
Amusement unlimited that is ! Another mystery - rather it deepens when we see its number plate. WBB 9898 is a 1963/64 ish registration.

We had a LHD Willys jeep WBB 3880 (office), that if I am not wrong was a 1962 model.

It happens only in India !!!!

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Old 5th July 2014, 12:15   #2283
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Default Re: Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India

I think the original Morgan did come from Assam to Delhi - the subsequent clones are all made in Delhi, this one does look like one of the clones.
The same tale could attach it self to all the clones.

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Old 5th July 2014, 14:16   #2284
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My friend, Avik, saw this gorgeous 1957 Morgan at the BIC few days back...
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Looks quite similar to the Delhi created aberration! Where did you see it? Ithink it's the same car, a contessa turned into what you see, call it whatever
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I think its the same Delhi car you mention above, as it is clicked at the Buddh International Circuit. But is it seriously a Contessa?
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Originally Posted by //M View Post
Yes it looks similar to Mr. Tutu Dhawan's Morgan, but is this based on a Contessa? I doubt. Apparently the owner found this carcase lying half buried in some tea estate in Assam, procured it from there and built it to what is now a gleaming beauty.
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Please ask your friendAvik to open the bonnet and check Fairy tales when related nicely make for good bedtime stories
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Originally Posted by vintageman View Post
I think the original Morgan did come from Assam to Delhi - the subsequent clones are all made in Delhi, this one does look like one of the clones. The same tale could attach it self to all the clones
Yes, there was a Moggie in Assam, with a story about its suspension! And if memory serves me right, I think I saw it subsequently in Tutu's Noida workshop as well. Or maybe that was another Morgan, but an original one it was from what I remember (can't be sure though, besides water under the bridge a lot of milk n nectar have flown through these veins as well! Resulting in recollections at times that bear no resemblance to this life! ).

Well, see my earlier post's link below. The clone, or one of the clones running about by now if more have been created at Tutu's assembly line, has been discussed before and informed of actually being a Conty underneath. For that matter, take a look also at the dashboard that's partially visible in the recent pic above. Dunno about a Vauxhall engine, the Contessa certainly got a Vauxhall body and subsequently an Isuzu engine!!

The car in the link below sports a UP number, while the one in the current pic above has WBB. Well I do hope they are clones, or I'll also be led to believe that this is now a bespoke Swatch, with changeable body panels as well as changeable number plates!!

Anyway, the different registration numbers are making it difficult for me to take a stand on whether it's the same car as before (a clone), or another clone, or an original...the one with the UP registration was certainly a replica!

All said and done, the car in the earlier link was a nice creation by Tutu. Looked good, sounded mean, probably runs well too with its modern mechanicals. Only problem I had with that and the other replicas is why not let everybody know it's a replica? And don't allow them entry in a vintage & classic car event, to befool the uninitiated. Let it also be known whether it's a buddy system or a genuine hobby! And this one (whether the same or another clone, or an original - which would be a surprise) looks quite good too. Calling them an aberration is a tad unkind, provided there's none of the aforementioned attempt at hoodwinking.

The strange part is that clone or an original Moggie, nobody has remarked it doesn't at least look like the vintage and classic ones (whether the 4 or the plus 8), but the modern factory iterations.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post3024506 (Heritage Motoring Club Of India)

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Amusement unlimited that is ! Another mystery - rather it deepens when we see its number plate. WBB 9898 is a 1963/64 ish registration. We had a LHD Willys jeep WBB 3880 (office), that if I am not wrong was a 1962 model. It happens only in India !!!!
I think WBB is a much older registration number, from the 1950s, if not the 40s or even earlier. The registration for early 1960s (from late 50s actually) was WBE. I say this from cars in the family of the 1920s and 30s sporting WBA, then WBB, those of the 40s & 50s bearing WBC and WBD, then those from the late 50s through the 60s bearing WBE, WBF, WBG, WBJ, etc. The WM series (starting with WMA) coming about in the early 70s - sticking to main Calcutta of course (since there was a 1948 Vauxhall 14 too, with WBH plates - as she was registered at the factory address across the Hooghly in Howrah). A re-registered car may not have followed the pattern though. And automobiles with creative documents (whether modern machines or those with heritage, but dodgy legacy) follow a kaleidoscope anyway!

"Happens only in India"?! These things happen all over the world!

Edit:

On another note, in case there's prolific cloning of these Morgans going on, each iteration could be given a name of its own as well. Like Cy, George, etc. with Clone suffixed. Imagine a Cy Clone, George Cl-o-one(y), etc. on parade here. Maybe, one cloned Morgan could be named Freeman!!

Last edited by Prabal : 5th July 2014 at 14:27.
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Old 5th July 2014, 19:44   #2285
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Hi Prabal,

The reason for calling it an aberration is because in Delhi this car is passed off as a Morgan.

In your quoted post you called it a fake!

call it by any other name and I would not comment, but their have been attempts to call it a Morgan and reluctance to open the bonnet to people with a bit of knowledge.

Contessa drive trains seem to be quite popular

Last edited by Bulldogji : 5th July 2014 at 19:57.
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Old 5th July 2014, 20:11   #2286
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Originally Posted by Prabal View Post

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post3024506 (Heritage Motoring Club Of India)

I think WBB is a much older registration number, from the 1950s, if not the 40s or even earlier. The registration for early 1960s (from late 50s actually) was WBE. I say this from cars in the family of the 1920s and 30s sporting WBA, then WBB, those of the 40s & 50s bearing WBC and WBD, then those from the late 50s through the 60s bearing WBE, WBF, WBG, WBJ, etc. The WM series (starting with WMA) coming about in the early 70s - sticking to main Calcutta of course (since there was a 1948 Vauxhall 14 too, with WBH plates - as she was registered at the factory address across the Hooghly in Howrah). A re-registered car may not have followed the pattern though. And automobiles with creative documents (whether modern machines or those with heritage, but dodgy legacy) follow a kaleidoscope anyway!

"Happens only in India"?! These things happen all over the world!
Yes, WBA, WBB are indeed older registrations from the late 1940's and early 1950's respectively. In fact, most of the Morris Minors and Hindustan 14's and early Landmasters were WBD. WBE was for the Dodge Kingsways (the Calcutta Police Commissioner's car was WBE 1362), later Landmasters and later on the swarm of Ambassadors.

WBH and WBP were older series of the 1940's. Our relative had an Austin 8 WBH 1084. A friend owns a Ford V 8 with the WBP series.

I quoted the registration number WBB 3880 (CJ 3B), which was indeed a 1962 Willys LHD jeep. I feel there were some unfilled gaps in the older series that were later filled up. This jeep was with us till around 1985. I had driven this jeep many a time. So maybe, WBE and WBB were concurrently running then.

And it was a Govt of India owned vehicle, where the number cannot be tampered or fiddled with.
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Old 5th July 2014, 23:01   #2287
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Yes, WBA, WBB are indeed older registrations from the late 1940's and early 1950's respectively.

I quoted the registration number WBB 3880 (CJ 3B), which was indeed a 1962 Willys LHD jeep. I feel there were some unfilled gaps in the older series that were later filled up. This jeep was with us till around 1985. I had driven this jeep many a time. So maybe, WBE and WBB were concurrently running then.

And it was a Govt of India owned vehicle, where the number cannot be tampered or fiddled with.
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Originally Posted by Prabal View Post

I think WBB is a much older registration number, from the 1950s, if not the 40s or even earlier. The registration for early 1960s (from late 50s actually) was WBE. I say this from cars in the family of the 1920s and 30s sporting WBA, then WBB, those of the 40s & 50s bearing WBC and WBD, then those from the late 50s through the 60s bearing WBE, WBF, WBG, WBJ, etc. The WM series (starting with WMA) coming about in the early 70s - sticking to main Calcutta of course (since there was a 1948 Vauxhall 14 too, with WBH plates - as she was registered at the factory address across the Hooghly in Howrah). A re-registered car may not have followed the pattern though. And automobiles with creative documents (whether modern machines or those with heritage, but dodgy legacy) follow a kaleidoscope anyway!

"Happens only in India"?! These things happen all over the world!
I think this WBA car illustrates what I mean and should put all such assertions about WBA, WBB -- series specifically depicting the year of registration of a car to rest.

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By the time WBF, WBG, WBJ and the later WM-- series were in vogue, things were streamlined.

And I quipped "It happens only in India' because this thread is entitled "Vintage and Classic cars in India".

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Old 8th July 2014, 08:01   #2288
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Hi Bulldogji,

Yes, I'd called it a fake in my quoted post because I knew that car was being passed off as a Morgan in the rally, while I was aware that it was something else underneath. In fact few more clued-in people at the venue knew thatas well! However, that was UP 32xxxx, whereas this one, the WBB-regd one, I don't know what it is for sure - could be the same car with another regn plate stuck on, or a different car altogether, with provenance unknown to me. In view of the latter, it would be wrong of me to speculate.

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
In your quoted post you called it a fake!lol
Agreed, with the below:

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
call it by any other name and I would not comment, but their have been attempts to call it a Morgan and reluctance to open the bonnet to people with a bit of knowledge.
This is what I don't like - Bombayites insinuating about the scene in Delhi (and Calcutta, Madras, etc.), every now and then. Stick to the car and people associated with it, instead of bringing the city into it, and that too so often. There's plenty that's wrong with the machinations in Bombay and Poona too that I am aware of, but I don't try and attribute it to the city. Btw, I am originally from Poona, just FYI, for whatever it's worth!

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
The reason for calling it an aberration is because in Delhi this car is passed off as a Morgan.
Hi Anjan, see your two statements below

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
WBB 9898 is a 1963/64 ish registration
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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Yes, WBA, WBB are indeed older registrations from the late 1940's and early 1950's respectively.
I think, WBH was a registration series for Howrah, that was started in the 40s but remained open till later, since it took time to fill up, given that Howrah may have had fewer vehicles getting registered. Maybe.

WBP was probably a series for the Calcutta/WB police - I am quite certain about that. I am not certain if it was given to individuals too. Maybe auctioned police vehicles that came to private ownership were allowed to run around with the old WBP plates. But, I am not 100% certain, so shan't take a stand.

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
WBH and WBP were older series of the 1940's. Our relative had an Austin 8 WBH 1084. A friend owns a Ford V 8 with the WBP series.
I don't for a second doubt anything you say about your jeep. You had first-hand access to that vehicle, so it's details would be best known to you.

Yes, you are right about the unfilled gaps in older registration series, that got filled up with the vehicles that came up for registration later - most likely old vehicles getting re-registered from another number; I doubt they were given to brand new vehicles from the showroom. In fact, that's exactly what I had mentioned in my previous post!

If what I am saying is right, I'd think we can't say WBE and WBB were "running concurrently!"

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
I quoted the registration number WBB 3880 (CJ 3B), which was indeed a 1962 Willys LHD jeep. I feel there were some unfilled gaps in the older series that were later filled up. This jeep was with us till around 1985. I had driven this jeep many a time. So maybe, WBE and WBB were concurrently running then.
Absolutely!

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
And it was a Govt of India owned vehicle, where the number cannot be tampered or fiddled with.
This WBA Fiat Select only illustrates the point that it's a later car, re-registered with an older number that was available. The fact that it's numerals start with 9xxx further validates that. Because I remember in Delhi, 9000 series of older regn numbers were given to re-regn cases (probably also 7000 and 8000 series). Must have been an All-India phenomenon, given everybody followed a uniform MV act. However, in view of that, your '62 Jeep with a 3xxx series on an older registration makes me wonder whether it was a case of re-registration, or indeed a fresh car out.

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
I think this WBA car illustrates what I mean and should put all such assertions about WBA, WBB -- series specifically depicting the year of registration of a car to rest.
All of the above practices continued even with these nos. below. That is, some older cars getting these newer nos. et all.

In fact, I just remembered, individuals could also retain an old registration number of their car to transfer to another vehicle with the RTO's permission - so that negated the alignment of period of a series and the vehicle's vintage. To be considered with some of the points above.

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By the time WBF, WBG, WBJ and the later WM-- series were in vogue, things were streamlined.
I am sorry, Anjan, this below, I can't see any justification in!

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And I quipped "It happens only in India' because this thread is entitled "Vintage and Classic cars in India".
And now, I gotta rush, or I'll miss another flight second day running! Cheerio!
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Old 8th July 2014, 08:21   #2289
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Hi Prabal,

My statement was not meant to cast aspersions on Delhi as a city, the fact being that this car is/was in Delhi and created by someone who is in Delhi and shown as a Morgan in Delhi was the reason for the mention.

My apologies if you felt offended, that was not the intention.
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Old 8th July 2014, 09:41   #2290
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Originally Posted by Prabal View Post

I think, WBH was a registration series for Howrah, that was started in the 40s but remained open till later, since it took time to fill up, given that Howrah may have had fewer vehicles getting registered. Maybe.

WBP was probably a series for the Calcutta/WB police - I am quite certain about that. I am not certain if it was given to individuals too. Maybe auctioned police vehicles that came to private ownership were allowed to run around with the old WBP plates. But, I am not 100% certain, so shan't take a stand.

I don't for a second doubt anything you say about your jeep. You had first-hand access to that vehicle, so it's details would be best known to you.

Yes, you are right about the unfilled gaps in older registration series, that got filled up with the vehicles that came up for registration later - most likely old vehicles getting re-registered from another number; I doubt they were given to brand new vehicles from the showroom. In fact, that's exactly what I had mentioned in my previous post!

If what I am saying is right, I'd think we can't say WBE and WBB were "running concurrently!"
While I have no idea about Morgans and can't contribute much (other than my two pice opinion that I don't like them much - genuine or replica), all this talk of registration numbers does get me excited.

Do take a good long look through

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vinta...ers-india.html

And do make contributions if any.

Regarding WB numbers, remember they ran BLx series which were replaced by WBx with the same number after creation of West Bengal.

Regarding WBP series, my 1957 Standard Super 10 was originally WBP registered, bought new by a professor at Kharagpur. I doubt he had any police connections.
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Old 8th July 2014, 20:06   #2291
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While I have no idea about Morgans and can't contribute much (other than my two pice opinion that I don't like them much - genuine or replica), all this talk of registration numbers does get me excited.

Do take a good long look through

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vinta...ers-india.html

And do make contributions if any.

Regarding WB numbers, remember they ran BLx series which were replaced by WBx with the same number after creation of West Bengal.

Regarding WBP series, my 1957 Standard Super 10 was originally WBP registered, bought new by a professor at Kharagpur. I doubt he had any police connections.
The WBP Ford V 8 about which I was saying in my previous post here with no police connections :

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Netaji Subhas Bose's 1930's Wanderer with its BLA registration, of the then united Bengal

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Old 9th July 2014, 08:01   #2292
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Came across this barn in Panchgani. Karl and I ha seen this place earlier when there was a MTP registered Chevy Fleetmaster cab alongwith a Mercedes and a Landmaster rusting in an open plot. The owner seems to have taken corrective measures to preserve the cars.

Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India-imageuploadedbyteambhp1404872921.125862.jpg

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Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India-imageuploadedbyteambhp1404872964.189200.jpg

Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India-imageuploadedbyteambhp1404872982.014188.jpg

Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India-imageuploadedbyteambhp1404872995.165967.jpg
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Old 9th July 2014, 09:30   #2293
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Came across this barn in Panchgani. Karl and I ha seen this place earlier when there was a MTP registered Chevy Fleetmaster cab alongwith a Mercedes and a Landmaster rusting in an open plot. The owner seems to have taken corrective measures to preserve the cars.
Wow, must be a great sight, having said that , the cars are still vulnerable to the elements of nature ! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 12th July 2014, 18:17   #2294
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Hi Prabal,

My statement was not meant to cast aspersions on Delhi as a city...

My apologies if you felt offended, that was not the intention.
Hi Bulldogji,

You are a gracious, and humble man, sir!

Thank you and regards,

Prabal

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Regarding WB numbers, remember they ran BLx series which were replaced by WBx with the same number after creation of West Bengal.

Regarding WBP series, my 1957 Standard Super 10 was originally WBP registered, bought new by a professor at Kharagpur. I doubt he had any police connections.
We've probably had a discussion before also, Karl, regarding your WBP-regd Standard Super 10 belonging privately to a professor at Kharagpur, with no police connections.

Maybe, WBP was a number assigned to vehicles registered in the outskirts, or in the 'Parganas' - like WBH was for Howrah. However, I have seen far too many WB police vehicles sporting WBP plates - cars, trucks and those indigo-coloured police vans (Dodge, Fargo etc.), which possibly influenced me to assume that it was a series exclusive to the force. I'll ask around on my next visit to Cal, to try and get to the bottom of this.

Last edited by Prabal : 12th July 2014 at 18:19.
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Old 20th July 2014, 19:13   #2295
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Posted by a friend in the group facebook.com/groups/bygonebangalore/

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