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Old 4th March 2010, 15:20   #91
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DKG I am not sure duty wiaving is an option and don't see govt doing this, and doubt whether it will happen before I have grandkids!. At best we can aim for permitting imports and applying uniform duty on them.

what I meant by abuse is commercial exploitation by dealers/importers - Backdating etc which has happened recently - DRI - Duty evaision etc.

Last edited by canonball : 4th March 2010 at 15:25.
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Old 4th March 2010, 15:22   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canonball View Post
DKG I am not sure duty wiaving is an option and don't see govt doing this, and doubt whether itwil happen before I have grandkids!. At best we can aim for permitting imports and applying uniform duty on them.
I am talking about duty waiver on spare parts on grounds its for maintenance of national treasure
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Old 4th March 2010, 15:31   #93
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Ah yes there to you have the recent bike parts case and you know how ad hoc and stupid folks are? They sleep till the home is philfered/and damage done and then wake up and clamp everything without logic but you have a point although I am not how one can justify duty removal = will never fly as this is a revenue issue pride or no pride other folks who don't have such cars will say hey they are doing a Sachin Tendulkar!
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Old 5th March 2010, 01:15   #94
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There are many issues facing the vintage + classic cars enthusiasts of which the important ones should be listed.
Import of used parts
Import of vintage + classic cars
Regularisation of cars with lost documents.
Import of new parts atleast at a discounted rate of duty.

These goals could be achieved if we are united and show that we are a group with an interest contributing to national interest. We must lobby with the government.

But where are we as a group? So far achievements have been few.
Export of vintage cars banned
Import of new parts allowed, but this was not vintage car specific. But nevertheless, it is now permitted.

Who should work for this? Titus? Why him alone? We should be a unified body making representations to the government. We should lobby the ministers and others, invite them to our functions etc. But in India we have two basic flaws. We are NOT united, we have too many factions and we tend to pull each other down. Largely we ourselves are responsible for this situation. When the government did give concessions, like they did in Maharashtra, our representatives made it totally an exclusive thing. In Maharashtra Mr. Anjan is lobbying with a minister for a fascility which already exists and has been used selectively. If no one was given this fascility, then we are fine with it. But when selected few have been given by virtue of being close to VCCCI in which ever manner, that's unfair. I am talking about the rules to register cars without documents. Never mind that some go and judge events and award the first prize to themselves. That happened recently in Jaipur. As long as we have selfish persons at the helm of vintage affairs, who misuse their so called powers, we are not going to progress. So sounding out Mr. Titus for a PIL is pointless, why should he do so?

I can imagine a scenario where he did do that. And the government falls in line. So a procedure has been set up. And who will be in charge? Say you will require a 'certificate of need' to import parts, to be certified by a recognised club. Well, we would be back to square one. See what I mean.

So when we play politics among ourselves, why should anyone or the government care? We are still in the wild west, everyone for himself. Today. every desire of ours can be achieved, in whichever way, but when we would like to do these things upfront, and then there is no support from a club or any legal provision.

The worry that such provisions would be misused for commercial gain can be overcome in that entries are made in the RC books whenever parts are imported. In the past we had to show the RC book when importing car parts. And if anyone were to fraudulently import parts, we have our agencies to find them.

Contacting vintage car clubs is also a problem. In some cities you have to think, which club to approach. Chennai has a number of clubs, and they cannot tolerate each other. And Tamil Nadu has huge old car taxation problems.

I feel that we are not ready for any joint action. Some personalities will have to come to their senses, others will have to be brought there. But there is still hope as there are some really nice and helpful personalities out there too.

I would dare to suggest, in jest ofcourse, to close this thread. Ouch!!

Cheers to a united vintage community, and may dreams come true. harit

Last edited by harit : 5th March 2010 at 01:19.
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Old 5th March 2010, 08:05   #95
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Well, some very well reasoned debate here. My recollection is that there is a ban on the export of antiquities from India which I fully support. When you look at the classic/vintage car world it is galling to see the automobile treasures "smuggled" out of India. Jay Leno among them! I imagine not all BHPites are in a position to buy a vintage car so hopefully they may be given an option in the future.

I recall seeing a Lotus 7 replica from New Zealand in Candolim, Goa, allegedly imported by Mr Kingfisher. This might be an option for those seeking replicas.
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:17   #96
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For a start Harit we have

Harit
Bulldogji
Gogi
Magneto
Mole
Kasli
DKG
S.B. Jatti
KPS
Scooby

and I'm sure a few more vintage/classic car owners who can sign a petition and forward to the ministry.

What you say about clubs and politics is true but perhaps we need to step aside and still move this forward. As far as a club ratifying issues I'm sure Mr. Jatti can help out with Heritga club of Delhi

Diljeet is very active and he can join in (perhaps frame the petition) If you are all game I can write to him/or speak with him with a request to support this movement. Also Doc in Bangalore can help
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:41   #97
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My suggestion simply is just to check with Titus if this will fly forget unity amongst clubs/politics etc. He is a lawyer so may be at the least be able to give a gut on if courts will give a good/favorable order to allow imports of cars and used parts. One can always start on a fresh sheet of paper i.e get a new body going we already seem to have 10 people listed by DKG I am assuming all are forward thinking and open minded and non-egotistical = really interested in doing some greater good. So who can make at least that one call to him? Lets find out if there is a starting point and not give up so easily!
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Old 5th March 2010, 10:49   #98
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We have to initially make a formal representation to the relevant Ministry and then move this forward. Its only if the government rejects the proposal do you move courts
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Old 5th March 2010, 13:48   #99
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Count me in!

I've had a few collectors in N.A. interested in bringing their cars to India for restoration but some of the issues mentioned make it questionable at this point.
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Old 5th March 2010, 17:58   #100
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Count me in!

I've had a few collectors in N.A. interested in bringing their cars to India for restoration
Now that's a very interesting point. Perhaps all those into professional restoration should lobby for an efficient method to enable foreign customers to utilise their services
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Old 6th March 2010, 07:13   #101
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I remember when I had been to DOC's place about a year back to buy tyres for the Plymouth he had indicated that he was informally talking to the Ministry on the re/import of heritage cars and parts at zero/concessional duty. He indicated that the Minsitry had a open mind for such import by a registered Trust/Museum.

I would believe that most members of KVCCC would support this effort should it be formalized.
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Old 6th March 2010, 10:59   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Now that's a very interesting point. Perhaps all those into professional restoration should lobby for an efficient method to enable foreign customers to utilise their services
My experience here in Calcutta is that they are very individualistic and I would consider less unified so that the various clubs you had mentioned. Not sure if this is the case in other parts of India.

However if we were to develop an effective strategy, I am sure they would support it. What we need is strong leadership who know the workings of the Gov. and have the ear of some key people.

I will take time and a lot of effort but well worth it it.
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Old 6th March 2010, 11:26   #103
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Can anyone who knows Titus at least call him! Some folks who been in this for too long may not be able to see this but some who looking at the problem anew may perhaps bring new ideas (out of the box). So lets not just assume too much and give up. You never know Titus may have never thought about it/not realised that there are folks like us who can support etc ONE PHONE CALL DOES NOT HURT if someone give me the number I will call him and check.

Last edited by canonball : 6th March 2010 at 11:28.
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Old 6th March 2010, 12:38   #104
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Sorry, I do not agree that we put up a petition AGAIN. Ground has been covered in the past, successes were achieved, so how can you just let all that be put aside and start afresh. We should not and cannot reinvent the wheel. We should not let past efforts go to waste, and we should not waste effort to attain something already achieved. So, atleast for Maharashtra, why does the VCCCI not come forward and help to register vintage and classic cars which have no clear documents. A provision exists, affidavits are required, VCCCI issues a certificate, and this fascility has been used selectively. Maybe I should post the text of this notification. And the names of people whose cars have been registered, maybe also the car numbers.
The point is that people like Anjan have been persuing some matters where a part has already been achieved.
Maybe VCCCI should be made accountable, once the fascility is given to all, then people from other states can lobby for same fascility in their states.

Also, as mentioned, some top guns have been trying to get import of cars permitted, they have failed, and these were people with contacts. That can be looked into too, but a separate subject.

We can talk to Titus every day, but what subject? If someone wants his help, you have to start by joining HMCI. Then you have some status to present your problems to him through HMCI. Or you can take up with a club in your area of which you are a member.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 6th March 2010 at 12:43.
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Old 6th March 2010, 15:41   #105
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I am confused my first impression was all clubs concerned incl VCCCI are complicated/politised/only help a few etc and getting anywhere with them is like .

I am talking about putting up a PIL and not petition. As far as I know/understand most things move/change by putting up PIL's and not so much petitions and there is no serial order that one tries petition first then PIL as seen in ample other PIL's put up by any ordinary citizen without any petitioning history in the background.

Let me clarify I beleive the Govt should allow anyone to import a classic/vintage with certain restrictions i.e. clear FC/Emmission certificates/current valid reg etc from export destination. For direct import something similar to CBU's and for TR any value.

HMCI or no HMCI if so many out here are members I suppose people know what they need to do for we are not a beaurocratic government office but enthusiasts

I thought instead of shooting suggestions at each other = no action why not try- I have put up our discsussion to Titus lets see what he thinks

Last edited by canonball : 6th March 2010 at 15:46.
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