Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Vintage Cars & Classics in India


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th January 2012, 12:44   #1366
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOMBAY
Posts: 1,786
Thanked: 1,847 Times
Default Re: Herald

Yes the bonnet is modified and NFS club ahem please tap the grey cells on this .

Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
Nice looking car, they are really becoming rare. The bonnet has been modified though, other details like rear bumper others can comment.
What is NFS club?

Cheers harit
kasli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2012, 14:38   #1367
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 138
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India

NFS Club is the only vintage car club in India where the judging appears to be unbiased!
For all practical purposes however,NFS may be read as NOT FOR SALE.
Always welcome Haritji!
911987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2012, 20:14   #1368
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Stanher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad, AP
Posts: 6,250
Thanked: 1,404 Times
Default Re: Herald

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasli View Post
Saw this herald at kalina today. Nice to know another one saved but an NFS club member . The headlight rings were there and being fixed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
Nice looking car, they are really becoming rare. The bonnet has been modified though, other details like rear bumper others can comment.
Now this is an early (1961-62) Herald so it is all the more rare. But pity about the disfiguration done to the bonnet!!

Even the equally rare original dash no longer exists. And why the extra speedo I wonder?!

The bodywork hasnt turned out too well from the pics. either.

The rear bumper capping (supposed to be chrome) was fitted as an accessory for some Heralds here, but apparently on those in B'bay/Pune.
I believe they were made by some firm named Vidyut in Bombay. The rear ones also came with bumperguards, which werent too appealing. Here's a pic. of one mk2 Herald that was in Pune and maybe still around, fitted with such a rear bumper:

http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/...k2/mark204.jpg

Photo by our Karl Bhote!

Kasli, by 'saved' do you mean it was saved from the scrappers or something?? Well, the irony is (unless the bonnet etc. was already modified when it bought) it apparently still didnt end up in the 'right' hands! :(

Sorry if I've offended anyone, but being a purist when it comes to Heralds/Standards, couldnt help it...!

Last edited by Stanher : 9th January 2012 at 20:18.
Stanher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2012, 20:20   #1369
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 379
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: Herald

The bonnet has been altered & has nothing common with the original.This alteration was common in Bombay even in the sixties
C.S.ANANTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2012, 11:35   #1370
Distinguished - BHPian
 
harit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,908
Thanked: 2,484 Times
Default Re: Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911987 View Post
.............,NFS may be read as NOT FOR SALE.
Always welcome Haritji!
And I thought that it was the Not For Show club because of the inaccuracies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Now this is an early (1961-62) Herald so it is all the more rare. But pity about the disfiguration done to the bonnet!!.............but being a purist when it comes to Heralds/Standards, couldnt help it...!
You are indeed a purist and that is appreciated. But you must make an allowance that Standard Motor Works supplied car which were already rusting as soon as they left the assembly line. Now you try to lift that bonnet where the hinge supports are rusted and gives way. I have personally seen a bonnet being opened and the grill falling on the road. So not much can remain original anymore. Here I would blame the manufacturer more than the owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.S.ANANTH View Post
The bonnet has been altered & has nothing common with the original.This alteration was common in Bombay even in the sixties
One reason for this alteration was that the cars rusted so fast that the hinge supports gave way. Often after numerous repairs the bonnets became misaligned creating problems while being operated, opened and closed.

Cheers harit
harit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2012, 21:26   #1371
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Stanher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad, AP
Posts: 6,250
Thanked: 1,404 Times
Default Re: Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
You are indeed a purist and that is appreciated. But you must make an allowance that Standard Motor Works supplied car which were already rusting as soon as they left the assembly line. Now you try to lift that bonnet where the hinge supports are rusted and gives way. I have personally seen a bonnet being opened and the grill falling on the road. So not much can remain original anymore. Here I would blame the manufacturer more than the owner.
One reason for this alteration was that the cars rusted so fast that the hinge supports gave way.
Harit, for your statement regarding the bonnet hinges, here is a pic. of my own Herald with the bonnet open, showing one of the hinges. I presume you meant the one/s marked with the arrow here??

Standard cars in India-bhinge.jpg

Would these rust so easily? Compared to the much smaller and frailer hinges used in the 'new' bonnet?? Looking at them, I doubt it! Maybe it was just the bolts retaining them that wouldve corroded, which could've been fixed by replacing the bolts, and economically speaking (for our people!) it wouldve worked out cheaper than making this alteration in the bonnet! Which means, all this was done only by mechanics who were not competent enough to understand/work with such cars and thought of the 'easy' way out, although in this case I certainly dont see it any easier! which makes one doubt their competence all the more. Of course, predominance of just 1 or 2 brands of automobiles in almost the entire country would also be another reason for lack of competence with other different cars. So let's not blame the manufacturer (agreed Standard Motors werent really wonderful to their own products, which I learnt more of from people once internally connected to them but not getting into those details now) or the designer alone but rather the people who dealt with them since the cars left the showrooms! In any case, let's remember that NONE of the 'big 3' car-makers in our country were just with their products.
The mechanics/garagewalas were, on the contrary, competent in convincing the owners that their cars were worthless, which is how many of these made their way to the breakers' yards until a decade ago!
And I do remember you mentioning the incident of the 'Standard' taxi (owned by a Sardar?) bonnet opening and the grille falling out on the road. But, if you look at any HERALD grille, including this one, it is mounted to the 'inside' of the front panel, in this case, it is held in place by the front bumperguards. So the chances of it falling out when the bonnet opened are nil!
It was only in the Standard GAZEL that the grille was fitted on the 'outside' and held with 4 screws (again pic. included for your reference), these screws must have given away (not surprising in case of an Indian taxi, knowing the condition they usually are in!) hence the grille fell out.

Standard cars in India-gazgrille.jpg

Quote:
Often after numerous repairs the bonnets became misaligned creating problems while being operated, opened and closed.
This I can agree with, but to add, after numerous IMPROPER repairs, again by mechanics who were usually incompetent with such cars, barring the very few in the south who had prior experience working with authorised dealers. Thankfully my Herald's bonnet was successfully aligned by one such person!

Also I find some people, owners and mechanics alike, opening Herald bonnets roughly; ie lifting up one side without unlocking the other side first, and also people leaning completely on the 'edge' of the bonnet when open, which led to the bonnets getting misaligned and not shutting properly, or even popping up open on either side when the car was running.

Again, a competent guy could set this right only once, as in my car's case, but those otherwise couldnt get it right even quote "after numerous repairs" /quote!

Sorry if I've digressed or bored anyone, just my 2 cents!

Last edited by Stanher : 10th January 2012 at 21:30.
Stanher is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 18:35   #1372
Distinguished - BHPian
 
harit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,908
Thanked: 2,484 Times
Default Re: Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Harit, for your statement regarding the bonnet hinges, here is a pic. of my own Herald with the bonnet open, showing one of the hinges..........
Hi Stanher, you almost wrote a doctorate. Well your 2 cents are of a bit more value than....... 2 cents.
I don't think the design is/was the problem, it was either the way the car was made, or repaired. I had seen a number of foreign cars, made in England, and magically they never appeared to have such a problem. They also appear to have had a better finish.
Anyhow, about the hinge, maybe the bolts just gave way and along with the surrounding metal where these hinges were fastened. I did not do an analysis of this problem, we were school going kids at that time and at that time I only looked at vintage cars.
About the front grill falling off, maybe that was a bodged repair, but I spoke to an old neighbour whether he remembered the Sardar and his Herald. He did, also mentioned that it was red, and then he from his side remembered the falling grill. Then he reminded me about a common friends father and uncle, each had a Herald Mark III and those cars were immaculately maintained. They were 4-door versions.
There is no denying that these cars suffered from quality issues, and yes, the other makes like the Amby and Premier were no better. The Amby's were driven down from Kolkata on Kerosene so that engines were soon buggered up (the unions resisted transport by rail/truck so that the drivers made money from petrol saved), Premier's were sold from the show room with misaligned tail lights, scratches and there was no recourse.
Another car which had a similar bonnet opening was the Triumph Spitfire, and I never heard of issues with the bonnet as we have seen on Indian made Heralds. Herald's Formica dash was a bit cheap, their tail light lenses could not take the sun for too many years. The Vanguards which they built before that we far stronger cars of high quality.
I am glad that you are batting for the Heralds, those still around should be saved, and our discussion will be of use to someone who may come across this situation in future.
The Sardar had a red Herald, the Standard taxi was lying in a compound in Churchgate, opposite Ritz Hotel.

Cheers harit
harit is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 23:28   #1373
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Stanher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad, AP
Posts: 6,250
Thanked: 1,404 Times
Default Re: Pics: Vintage & Classic cars in India

Harit,
Sorry to keep 'prodding' this issue further!

Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
Hi Stanher, you almost wrote a doctorate. Well your 2 cents are of a bit more value than....... 2 cents.
Aah I wish it were literally! LOL.

Quote:
I don't think the design is/was the problem, it was either the way the car was made, or repaired. I had seen a number of foreign cars, made in England, and magically they never appeared to have such a problem. They also appear to have had a better finish.
Yes, the poor finish on Standard cars here was again a part of the company pinching pennies on their own products, I learnt from one ex-dealer in Madurai whom I met back in 2009 that they often had to repaint customer's cars within barely a year, as Standard Motors used to give a too thin coat of paint!

Quote:
About the front grill falling off, maybe that was a bodged repair, but I spoke to an old neighbour whether he remembered the Sardar and his Herald. He did, also mentioned that it was red, and then he from his side remembered the falling grill. Then he reminded me about a common friends father and uncle, each had a Herald Mark III and those cars were immaculately maintained. They were 4-door versions.
The mk3 was the model that was entirely Indian-made though, and it was here that the quality of the cars had gone downhill!
And again, harit, if the Sardar's Herald was an early (mk1) Herald like mine, I dont see how the front grille could fall outwards when the bonnet was opened. Nor could it be made to fit back by simply being 'wedged' into its place! Not if it was the original grille, which was bolted in place to the front bumperguards. To explain better, here's a pic. of a mk1 Herald with the bonnet open:

Name:  duotone11.JPG
Views: 1171
Size:  50.4 KB

So the only possibility could be that Sardarji got a little creative and got the whole set-up replaced by a non-original grille that was ill-fitting, hence couldnt stay in place!

Quote:
and yes, the other makes like the Amby and Premier were no better. The Amby's were driven down from Kolkata on Kerosene so that engines were soon buggered up (the unions resisted transport by rail/truck so that the drivers made money from petrol saved), Premier's were sold from the show room with misaligned tail lights, scratches and there was no recourse.
Not to mention Ambys sometimes being delivered without speedos!

Quote:
Another car which had a similar bonnet opening was the Triumph Spitfire, and I never heard of issues with the bonnet as we have seen on Indian made Heralds.
That's most likely because Spitfires were never assembled and sold here to the 'masses', unlike Heralds!
The few that exist came in as personal imports and were/are owned only by enthusiasts who are relatively careful with their cars! Had Spitfires been owned/maintained by the same kind of people that had Heralds (in India), most of them would've suffered the same, if not worse, fate as many Heralds.

Quote:
Herald's Formica dash was a bit cheap, their tail light lenses could not take the sun for too many years.
Same was the case with tail lenses of Ambys/Premiers and even Lambrettas sold here for that matter! As we know, quality was (and is) an issue with more or less any and every desi automotive part!

Quote:
I am glad that you are batting for the Heralds, those still around should be saved, and our discussion will be of use to someone who may come across this situation in future.
I sure hope the same!

Last edited by Stanher : 11th January 2012 at 23:30.
Stanher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 12:38   #1374
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOMBAY
Posts: 1,786
Thanked: 1,847 Times
Default Re: Herald

Hi Stanher !

Nobody is perfect and I think you will agree with me. The idea first as all of us as enthusiasts and car collectors etc is to see that the cars in todays day and age don't get chopped or scrapped. I have no idea who he is as what his means is etc. I saw the car clicked the snaps and posted it for everyone to appreciate. I have no idea how much can he/she as an owner wants to spend on the car and his knowledge etc.

To make a comment that its ended up still in the wrong hands is extremely in correct. So lets be neutral and glad that its another car standing for all of us to see .

Cheers

No offenses to anyone please



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Now this is an early (1961-62) Herald so it is all the more rare. But pity about the disfiguration done to the bonnet!!

Even the equally rare original dash no longer exists. And why the extra speedo I wonder?!

The bodywork hasnt turned out too well from the pics. either.

The rear bumper capping (supposed to be chrome) was fitted as an accessory for some Heralds here, but apparently on those in B'bay/Pune.
I believe they were made by some firm named Vidyut in Bombay. The rear ones also came with bumperguards, which werent too appealing. Here's a pic. of one mk2 Herald that was in Pune and maybe still around, fitted with such a rear bumper:

http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/...k2/mark204.jpg

Photo by our Karl Bhote!

Kasli, by 'saved' do you mean it was saved from the scrappers or something?? Well, the irony is (unless the bonnet etc. was already modified when it bought) it apparently still didnt end up in the 'right' hands! :(

Sorry if I've offended anyone, but being a purist when it comes to Heralds/Standards, couldnt help it...!

Last edited by kasli : 16th January 2012 at 12:42.
kasli is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2012, 20:20   #1375
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Stanher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad, AP
Posts: 6,250
Thanked: 1,404 Times
Default Re: Herald

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasli View Post
Hi Stanher !

Nobody is perfect and I think you will agree with me.

To make a comment that its ended up still in the wrong hands is extremely in correct. So lets be neutral and glad that its another car standing for all of us to see. No offenses to anyone please
None taken.

And yes, agree nobody is perfect.

I guess I'd made that comment in a rather over-sensitive moment. Apologies if it hurt anyone concerned with the car.

Yes glad that such cars are still liked by someone (other than myself!) in the country and hopefully the few that live will see even better days in future.
Stanher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2012, 15:23   #1376
Distinguished - BHPian
 
JayD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin! At last
Posts: 3,191
Thanked: 1,982 Times
Default Re: Standard cars in India

Stanher chetta, another one for you!

Spotted this pretty complete Penant a few months back in chennai. I thought the interior would have been completely damaged in the recent cyclone and rains we have been having here. Decided to take a look yesterday, and found that it was surprisingly undamaged. Sad that such a nice complete car is left to rot like this.
Attached Thumbnails
Standard cars in India-photo1.jpg  

Standard cars in India-photo3.jpg  

Standard cars in India-photo4.jpg  

Standard cars in India-photo5.jpg  

Standard cars in India-photo6.jpg  

Standard cars in India-photo7.jpg  

Standard cars in India-photo8.jpg  

JayD is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2012, 16:51   #1377
BHPian
 
priyadarshan.b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 225
Thanked: 63 Times
Default Re: Standard cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Stanher chetta, another one for you!

Spotted this pretty complete Penant a few months back in chennai. I thought the interior would have been completely damaged in the recent cyclone and rains we have been having here. Decided to take a look yesterday, and found that it was surprisingly undamaged. Sad that such a nice complete car is left to rot like this.
Thats a beauty you have spotted sir.. And she is so complete and original. Why would the owner leave her to rot like that..

Priyadarshan
priyadarshan.b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2012, 18:27   #1378
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Stanher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hyderabad, AP
Posts: 6,250
Thanked: 1,404 Times
Default Re: Standard cars in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Stanher chetta, another one for you!

Spotted this pretty complete Penant a few months back in chennai. Sad that such a nice complete car is left to rot like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by priyadarshan.b View Post
Thats a beauty you have spotted sir.. And she is so complete and original. Why would the owner leave her to rot like that..
Yes indeed a very nice car jayd! The front grille is surprisingly in pristine shape, which I havent found on too many such cars in India!

And the body too so straight, with visibly none of the idiosyncratic panel/door warping found on most Pennants/10s!

Looks like it was recently abandoned, hence still in good shape. The coastal air of MADRAS is likely to ravage it steadily, as seen on the chrome parts already!

Very few mods done on this car. Definitely restorable. Yes the interior is still in good shape but for the twin meters which sadly seem to have been nicked! (I have one set with me at home btw! )

I find it ironic that even today Standards are little cared for or desired even here down South where they were very popular!

Maybe it belongs to the house outside which it is parked. Did you try enquiring from them?

@priyadarshan, I suspect this is one of those owner-died-children-not-interested stories. And maybe also one of the we-dont-want-to-sell-it-tis-our-father's-memory ones as well!

Last edited by Stanher : 17th January 2012 at 18:29.
Stanher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2012, 07:33   #1379
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 379
Thanked: 70 Times
Default Re: Standard cars in India

I think this is the Penant is lying at Besant Nagar.It belongs to a person who also owns an Austin A 40.The owner has been demanding exhorbitant prices for both these cars. Naturally, no one is interested in buying them at those prices.Pity
C.S.ANANTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2012, 16:21   #1380
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 50
Thanked: 6 Times
Default Re: Standard cars in India

I had a split second view of what seemed like a Penant in Pune. If you are going from Deccan to Vaishali on Furgusson road, 2 lanes before vaishali there are these shops and on the back side there were 2 cars parked, one seemed like a Penant. Think it was a light green in color.
Pune_Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Government wants to make Airbags & ABS standard on new cars SumitBahl The Indian Car Scene 139 14th June 2016 20:17
Rumour: Skoda India to offer 5 year standard warranty on its Cars anarchy_99 The Indian Car Scene 76 19th September 2013 14:54
Why aren't alloy wheels standard in Indian cars (when they are on bikes)? Proxima The Indian Car Scene 32 12th March 2010 10:14
You Tube Videos Of Standard Cars Darrell The International Automotive Scene 0 28th December 2009 23:15
Should cars priced > 8L have alloy wheels as a standard fitment? maniind The Indian Car Scene 26 8th October 2008 14:11


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:55.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks