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Old 27th March 2012, 02:26   #76
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Default Re: Creating Guidelines for Judging at our Vintage and Classic Concours

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Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
I don't want to get into any controversy, but it is a fact that after the normal judging, a 'special' judge was flown in to judge only the RR who awarded the trophy to the car.


Faster789, with due respect to you, I agree and disagree. Yes, you can say that Indian standards are not upto International resto standards. But remember, atleast in the US, most of the cars are in good condition to start with because:

1) The roads are great

2) The weather in most states treat the car well

3) New spares are a plenty at reasonable prices, manufactured either in Europe or in the US and it's cheap to import.

4) And most importantly you have several types specialized equipment for restoration that we don't have here.

With our restrictive import laws, duties and basic facilities and the sometimes horrible condition of the cars that are restored, I think we do a damn good job, not concourse, but good nonetheless.

mbz180
You forgot a very important point!

5) Many of the cars here in India would never have been restored in North American and Europe where Shops bill out their labour costs at $55-100 per hour. In India, maybe $2-3 per hour.


RM Auctions Shop, who have done up a few Pebble Beach Grand prize winners, being located in a rural area, only charge $65 per hour. In Toronto, good Body Shops and Mechanic Shops, charge $75-110 per hour.

My Cousin had his 1927 Packard, given to Charles Lindbergh by the Mayor of New York restored to a Pebbles Concours standard with over 1500 hrs billed and it was in reasonably good condition to begin with! He lives close to RM Auction in Blenheim Ontario and had all the work, except the engine, done by a two man local Shop. He took me to RM for the "tour" and has had a few of his cars done up by them. There was an awesome early 1930s Daimler coupe that had just arrived from England for a "Concours" restoration. It was in very good condition and the owner had paid about $1,200.000. Wish I had had my camera.

I feel some of the comments are a little harsh as so much of the finished restoration depends on the standards, depth of pocket, and vision of the owners. Unfortunately too many collectors want flash rather than returning them to original fit and finish. Many of the cars I've watched being restored here in Kolkata to Impressive Standards would have been scrapped and one would have to pay to have them towed away.

What continually amazes me is the very primitive work shops with virtually no proper equipment, work benches, spray booths, even roofs overhead and yet, miraculously, I've seen lots of first class cars brought back to life and would be prize winners in many of the Concours Events any where in the world.

On the other hand many cars are "dollied up" that turn my stomach, but I'm thankful that they were not scrapped and hopefully some day will be re-restored reflecting their original beauty and integrity.

With the growing affluence of India and broader base of enthusiasts emerging, I have no doubt that the standards will improve driven by the collectors. Unfortunately with the import restrictions as mentioned, there are very few cars waiting to be reborn, subsequently the prices have sky-rocketed.

I haven't seen a Fiat on the road here in Kolkata this visit and hardly a Padmini! I didn't think I would ever say it, but the Amby's are looking better and better.

Last edited by john a milne : 27th March 2012 at 02:29.
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Old 4th April 2012, 23:03   #77
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Default Re: Creating Guidelines for Judging at our Vintage and Classic Concours

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Originally Posted by john a milne View Post
You forgot a very important point!

5) Many of the cars here in India would never have been restored in North American and Europe where Shops bill out their labour costs at $55-100 per hour. In India, maybe $2-3 per hour.


RM Auctions Shop, who have done up a few Pebble Beach Grand prize winners, being located in a rural area, only charge $65 per hour. In Toronto, good Body Shops and Mechanic Shops, charge $75-110 per hour.

I feel some of the comments are a little harsh as so much of the finished restoration depends on the standards, depth of pocket, and vision of the owners. Unfortunately too many collectors want flash rather than returning them to original fit and finish. Many of the cars I've watched being restored here in Kolkata to Impressive Standards would have been scrapped and one would have to pay to have them towed away.

What continually amazes me is the very primitive work shops with virtually no proper equipment, work benches, spray booths, even roofs overhead and yet, miraculously, I've seen lots of first class cars brought back to life and would be prize winners in many of the Concours Events any where in the world.
Slightly Off Topic but John you are right.Our labour costs are quite low by world standards and work or restoration standards together with awareness for the original looks are all gaining grounds here in India.
I had put up a thread here saying about government sops to encourage the import of cars and bikes of yore for restoration and export thereafter.The government can make a killing by encouraging such small scale industries (even large scale ones can venture here). I am sure that India will instantly gain reputation as the most famous destination to restore old jalopies.
The present ramshackle laws need to be amended.
The thread here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ssic-cars.html (India as a base For Restoration of Vintage and Classic Cars)
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