Veteran and Edwardian cars in India (1903 Cottereau etc) - Team-BHP

Julian UK · 23rd February 2008, 19:44

Dated by the Vintage car club UK this is a 1903 Cottereau 7hp single cylinder.
from France. Terrible photos but all I have. Original good wooden wheels. Had to make the steering box which cost about Rs 5000. They did a good job too. I’m not sure about the French racing blue colour but it matches the Maharajah of Patiala’s monorail steam engine in the Railway museum in Chanakyapuri.

A couple of pictures of how it was with completely wrong front mudguards. There is another picture of it here somewhere.

Here it is next to a 1905 Rover in which I did 5 or 6 rallys to Sohna.

It does look similar to a De Dion Bouton but very definitely not. If you google Cottereau there some pictures of other cars.

Julian UK · 23rd February 2008, 20:45

1903 Cottereau (Patiala 0) engine showing the maker’s name

One more awful picture of the car

karlosdeville · 26th February 2008, 14:31

Greetings Julian, what a treasure trove of pics you've got. Tell us more about your equation with these cars too.

Where is Patiala 0 today? I havent seen recent pictures of her anywhere.

DKG · 26th February 2008, 14:40

Julian

I've started a thread where people's experiences in restoration get shared with pictures. Please share your rich experiences both for cars and bikes there.

The discussion on pictures that we have started elsewhere should also get finalised wrt classification

Julian UK · 26th February 2008, 15:50

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Tell us more about your equation with these cars too.

Where is Patiala 0 today? I havent seen recent pictures of her anywhere.

Patiala 0 is safe in a collection in Delhi.

As to the restorations, it was full time work and about relating the experiences I find it hard to know where to start

. Heat, dust, cuts, burns, blood, sweat, euphoria, disappointment, joy, satisfaction. The trying to balance maintaining originality and quality against the sometimes unrealistic expectations and desires of the car's owners.
Having said that without the major car collectors so many wonderful cars would have been lost.
What I really love are untouched original cars retaining the patina of age, but when the condition has deteriorated too far and modifications over time are present then and only then should restoration be undertaken.

Julian UK · 16th March 2008, 04:23

The 1903 Cottereau work undertaken for anyone interested.....

A 1930s magneto fitted instead of the original contact breaker and trembler coil. I fabricated a replica of the original contact breaker assembly and got a new trembler coil from U\k and installed it (as the original) in a wooden box within the engine bay.
The front mudguards were from a 20s/30s whatever car.
Replicas of the originals with beading matching the original rear mudguards were made and fitted.
The crankshaft crankpin and mainshafts and keyways were very worn and were remanufactured with modern materials and new bronze bushes made. I remember line reaming the main bearings together. The cylinder bore and piston were suprisingly unworn and new rings were made by a company in Okhla who specialised in individually cast rings, which is vastly superior to turning them out of a tube of cast iron. Grandley's Piston Rings, Okhla Ind estate, New Delhi. Very helpful company.
New valve were made with oversize stems and hardened tips and the original guides were reamed to suit and valve seats recut.
Steering box was absolutely unuseable. A replica was cast in steel and machined and new gears cut through a machinist (Harjeet Singh) in INA motor market. He helped with the acceptable manufacture of many parts for me along with a company in Kotla motor market called "Fine auto boring" They had a very competent team who if you presented them with new white metal ingots from Frys metals (I would always buy new correct grade from the makers, which IS available) would remetal crankshaft bearing liners and remetal direct on connecting rods and machine them accurately. The sardar whose (name I forget, probably Singh

) was a very experienced engineer.
The cone clutch was trued and relined with leather.
The trans/gearbox gears were useable but the aluminium casing (it has a combined differential/gearbox as part of the rear axle) had many, many cracks, the machining and casting of a copy would have been a nightmare so as an alternative, external reinforcing was necessary which at least retained the original components, which above all was the most important priority.
Original wooden wheels were retained but soaked in water (to help tighten them due to the swelling of the wood) followed by sealing the surface with linseed oil (an old trick).
Worn wheel bearings reground and ***** replaced.
All the levers and fittings were steel covered with thin brass sheet soldered onto the surface. This known as "close plating". Where damaged or corroded I reshaped new brass and resoldered it to the necessary areas.
New rear axle bushes were machined and the half shafts ground true.
The chassis was straight and the tubes were rust treated and exterior blasted. Front axle was tweaked straight and jigged. The original linkage system for advance/retard was re established as the system had been altered in the past to accomodate the later Lucas magneto.
Body wood mostly original the odd completely rotten floor board renewed.
Any original components that were remotely restorable were retained in order to retain as much originality as possible.
I don't like the colour but I didn't choose it.
Time for a cup of tea.

I bet no one will read this anyway, but I had to write it somewhere

(Boring mechanical sh?t)

deutscheafrikar · 16th March 2008, 09:59

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