Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Vintage Cars & Classics in India


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th April 2008, 06:27   #16
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Bravencur is indeed a mystery, I wonder if it was a German/English translation thing... I'll see what I can find out...
I wonder if this is the car that I saw rusting away in Delhi in the 80s then it was bought by the late Ravi Kumar, then went to Indore then was bought by Jackie Shroff, after that I don't know what happened to it, the only remaining photograph I have is not very helpful. I remember going to Chandigarh with Mr. Seth to track down the ...person who had run off with a lot of the important parts but to no avail. We also visited M P Motors in Ambala, an incredible vintage motor garage who had a lot of old stock including new old stock Model T Ford mudguards ec. A friend used to call them Maha Pagal Motors as the owner was quite a character, and I still have a large soldering iron I purchased from them. They had a vast amount of less desirable or needed spares for very early cars.
Here is the only photo I have left of the 540K while it was in Delhi.

Miscellaneous other cars in India-scan0029.jpg
I hope it went somewhere real for proper restoration, but so many parts were missing. I suspect it was a different car from that in your photo, but I think it was a Cabriolet A.
Does anyone have any information on this wonderful car?


And lovely photos Travencore
I bet this is the same Lanchester that was being restored in Delhi in the late 80s-90s

Last edited by theMAG : 4th April 2008 at 15:20. Reason: User request
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2008, 08:51   #17
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,588
Thanked: 7,879 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
I wonder if this is the car that I saw rusting away in Delhi in the 80s then it was bought by the late Ravi Kumar, then went to Indore then was bought by Jackie Shroff, after that I don't know what happened to it, the only remaining photograph I have is not very helpful.Does anyone have any information on this wonderful car?
If Im correct, that car was given to Manvender to restore the body and cosmetics. Ravi Kumar was on his way to Indore to collect the car on completion, but he passed away on his way there. The car was lying with his wife for a while (a German lady), who was trying to sell it. Finally Jackie Shroff picked it up for 30 odd lakhs. (Give or take).

The car was in Pune for a long time after that, though I still havent seen it. I kept hearing stories that they called in some oldtimer experts from Germany to assist with the restoration. Last I heard a poultry magnate and car enthusiast from Pune has bought it and is getting it restored in Germany.

I cannot confirm any of this, but this is what I have been told by many people.

I think Manvender's book carries a picture of the car.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2008, 10:00   #18
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 917 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
You will like this, DKG!

Here is a 1914 Napier from the Nizam's garage:
Very interesting Looks like the long chassis buses posted earlier. Wonder if any of these long chassis Napiers have survived?
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2008, 10:12   #19
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,588
Thanked: 7,879 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
You will like this, DKG!

Here is a 1914 Napier from the Nizam's garage:
The western world would have flipped seeing all those elephants

I wonder what story might have been concocted to go with that picture.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2008, 10:30   #20
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 917 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
The western world would have flipped seeing all those elephants

I wonder what story might have been concocted to go with that picture.
I think its pictures like these and stories about tiger hunts in jungles that romanticised the ultimate find in India of a rare vintage car from deep within a jungle brought out slung between four elephants
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2008, 11:08   #21
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: bangalore
Posts: 508
Thanked: 462 Times
Default

Absolutely correct Karl. Manvendra did the cosmetic restoration and Ravikumar was on his way to Indore and he had a massive heart attack enroute.He dies without seeing the car. After his death, the car was brought to bangalore & Verena ( Ravikumars wife ), offered it in the market.No takers for a long time, because of the price quoted and then Prakash Kunte picked it up for Jackie Shroff. Jackie had the car sent to Pune for mechanicals and it ended up with its present owner, Bala.
dominator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2008, 21:55   #22
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lucknow
Posts: 49
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Isotta Fraschini 8A

Isotta-Fraschini, though a well-known marque on the Continent and in the USA, was not that common in India.

Here are two pictures of a 1929 Isotta-Fraschini Type 8A. The black and white picture was taken in Lucknow in the late sixties when it belonged to Raja Sajid Husain, taluqdar of Kotwara in Uttar Pradesh. The car was then dark green with black fenders.The recent colour picture from the web is of the same car after restoration. The Kotwara family also had a pale blue grey Mk.V Jaguar till the 1960s.
Attached Thumbnails
Miscellaneous other cars in India-isotta_b_w.jpg  

Attached Images
 
Chhayanat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 02:31   #23
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Wonderful contribution, magnificent car, is it a Castagna body?
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 02:52   #24
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Another Queenie film shot of the procession at the Ram Bagh hotel in Jaipur in 1986, they were preceded by a a column of camels and elephants and horses, it was quite a spectacle. Buy the film now! That same Packard in front, Mr Seth in his Hooper Silver Ghost second in line, I'm in the Rolls PII Limo (now in Delhi) third in line and the Maharani's Bentley 4 1/4 fourth. Apologies for the quality.
Name:  Queenie1.JPG
Views: 3399
Size:  46.3 KB

Last edited by Julian UK : 5th April 2008 at 02:55.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 05:01   #25
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 1,957
Thanked: 4,177 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chhayanat View Post
Isotta-Fraschini, though a well-known marque on the Continent and in the USA, was not that common in India.

Here are two pictures of a 1929 Isotta-Fraschini Type 8A. The black and white picture was taken in Lucknow in the late sixties when it belonged to Raja Sajid Husain, taluqdar of Kotwara in Uttar Pradesh
Thanks Chhayanat for this great picture! The body is by Sala (not Castagna).

According to Isotta Fraschini by Angelo Anselmi, some of the 8-cylinder Isottas that came to India:

Chassis / Maharaja / Year

1010 / Baroda / 1926
1042 / SAIA, Bombay (assume this was an importer)
1050 / SAIA
1299 / Cochin / 1928
1486 / Aga Khan

The picture below is of the Patiala 1926 Type 8A, body by Windovers (source Motor Italy, 1926).

According to "Automobiles of the Maharajas" page 144:

"One of the most incredible and expensive Shikar cars was completed at a cost of more than GBP 7000 for the 'big spender' Maharaja Bhupinder Singh of Patiala towards the end of 1925. For big game hunting, the entire body and even the wheel spokes were enamelled (probably lacqured, according to me) in camouflage shades of khaki, yello, grey-green and blue"

Name:  Patiala Isotta Fraschini Tipo 8A 1926.jpg
Views: 6449
Size:  22.7 KB
travancore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 06:05   #26
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 1,957
Thanked: 4,177 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Lot Details

A lovely shot of a Mercedes-Benz in Gwalior in 1941 320? mid-late 30s? Cabriolet D?
Doubtless Karl has already posted it somewhere..
Here is a Bikanir Mercedes (320 ?) - source maybe El-Mundo

Name:  BIKANIR MERCEDES BIKANER ELMUNDO.JPG
Views: 3695
Size:  14.8 KB

and below:
Cochin Mercedes (my guess: 1937-1942, 320 W142 Pullman Limo) with the Consort of the Maharaja of Cochin
source: The Hindu Images
Name:  Cochin Car Maharani maybe Mercedes 320 Lang W142 1937-42.bmp
Views: 6619
Size:  268.2 KB
travancore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 06:08   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 1,957
Thanked: 4,177 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chhayanat View Post
Here are two pictures of a 1929 Isotta-Fraschini Type 8A. The black and white picture was taken in Lucknow in the late sixties when it belonged to Raja Sajid Husain, taluqdar of Kotwara in Uttar Pradesh
Any idea who the original owner was (prior to Kotwara)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominator View Post
Absolutely correct Karl. Manvendra did the cosmetic restoration and Ravikumar was on his way to Indore and he had a massive heart attack enroute.He dies without seeing the car. After his death, the car was brought to bangalore & Verena ( Ravikumars wife ), offered it in the market.No takers for a long time, because of the price quoted and then Prakash Kunte picked it up for Jackie Shroff. Jackie had the car sent to Pune for mechanicals and it ended up with its present owner, Bala.
Any pictures of the Jackie Shroff car ?

Also, does anyone know the provenance / original owner of the Mercedes 500K (MRH-7529) owned by Mr. Mota Chudasama.
I have seen many pictures of this car in rallies in Bombay. (source Imageshack, credit: unknown)

Miscellaneous other cars in India-mercedes-500k-licence-mrh7529-bombay.jpg

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th April 2008 at 07:38. Reason: Please read about using the "Multi-Quote" feature in our FAQ, instead of posting multiple consecutive posts.
travancore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 11:30   #28
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,588
Thanked: 7,879 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
According to Isotta Fraschini by Angelo Anselmi, some of the 8-cylinder Isottas that came to India:

Chassis / Maharaja / Year

1010 / Baroda / 1926
1042 / SAIA, Bombay (assume this was an importer)
1050 / SAIA
1299 / Cochin / 1928
1486 / Aga Khan
What a superb find!

I had only heard of one Isotta in Bombay, but nothing concrete on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Also, does anyone know the provenance / original owner of the Mercedes 500K (MRH-7529) owned by Mr. Mota Chudasama.
You will find many images of this car all over the Bombay rally threads. Im told it was owned by the late Mr Chudasama (he passed away a week before the car was entered in the rally for the first time along with his Lincoln continental) and owned by him for donkeys years. I cant comment on the history of the car but Im told it is for sale along with the lincoln.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 14:07   #29
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Travencore, we really should have put these in the Daimler thread, but here we are;
Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
The following Lanchesters almost certainly belonged to Nawanagar. Could the first picture be #3611 listed above by Julian ???
Attachment 5478

Attachment 5479
The third Nawanagar Lanchester
4031 Lanchester 27hp; 51049; Allweather for the Maharajah of Nawanagar ordered by Daimler Co.; Blue; 1695 ; 1946


Moderator's note: Images deleted per user request

Last edited by theMAG : 21st May 2008 at 22:17.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2008, 20:07   #30
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lucknow
Posts: 49
Thanked: 20 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Any idea who the original owner was (prior to Kotwara)?
With my memory fading, all I can recall now is seeing a picture of Kotwara (Sajid Husain) with the car in Europe. He must have bought it there and brought it to India. This does not necessarily make him the original owner.
Those really interested can ask Muzaffar Ali, the film maker: he is Sajid Husain's son.
Chhayanat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Miscellaneous cars in Delhi Julian UK Pre-War 46 20th April 2008 23:51
Volkswagen to bring Passat, Golf and other cars in India navdeep The Indian Car Scene 34 22nd October 2007 19:48
Do i have any other choice other than Indica turbo diesel ?? tanishq Hatchbacks 35 11th June 2006 17:44


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:51.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks