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Old 19th May 2008, 06:12   #1
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Default Unidentified Vintage and Classic cars in India

Next time you take a picture at a rally or elsewhere, get the chassis/engine number as well
To start with Rolls Royces;
As demand seems to dictate a thread showing, among others, Rolls Royces, in or that used to be in India, yet to be identified. There seems to be a significantly justified need for a thread to focus on the identification of unidentified cars in order to save many avid team-bhp enthusiasts from having to search through hundreds of threads…
These seem to be particularly challenging…
Anyone having reasonably definite knowledge of the chassis number or any knowledge of the cars in question please do contribute.
The cars' relevant numbers are very, very important.
To start with:
Name:  1927 PI Barker Boattail Varun Pranlal Collection1.jpg
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Name:  1928 PI Hooper Pranlal Collection2.jpg
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(Credit for the picture below goes to Harit Trivedi (also posted on PreWarCars.com))
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Name:  Maybe 64 H9      Udaipur.jpg
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(To the esteemed moderators, this thread may well be an ongoing issue that needs separation to save many that are obviously interested a lot of searching… Also a polite request for some sticky, parked, permanent threads where demand is prevalant... as found on many forum sites)

Last edited by Rehaan : 25th June 2008 at 04:13. Reason: Credit for the 4th picture added.
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Old 19th May 2008, 13:25   #2
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@Julian: I am not sure what are you trying to identify, the cars year & make or the owners to which the car belongs?
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Old 19th May 2008, 13:30   #3
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Julian, I am mising the point you want to elaborate here. Are you saying that these cars, whosw pictures you have posted below are unidentified or are one off? I amsure you are aware that most of the coloured pics are from a well known private collection and the collector's nephews are on the forum. Im sure they can help in identifying these cars.
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Old 19th May 2008, 14:09   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
@Julian: I am not sure what are you trying to identify, the cars year & make or the owners to which the car belongs?
There are quite a few members who are also attempting to correctly identify different cars with their chassis and engine numbers and history, not just by a "its a Rolls Royce" type description. If the cars in question, (not just Rolls Royces, their are many other makes), are on display in one thread then it will be easier to attract responses about unknown cars and save hours of searching through 300 posts in threads looking for particular pictures.

V16 I do hope enthusiasts, relatives of car owners and anyone else will help establish the correct details and accurate history of these cars, without which they are just "pretty pictures".
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Old 19th May 2008, 17:49   #5
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A friend recently visited the Bhogilal museum, and looking at the detailed photos this is the info I can surmise according to the name plates provided.

The 1922 20 hp MMD 1922 is a Hooper body, ex Moin ud Dowla of Hyderabad.

The deep blue Rolls with the chequered pattern on the sides dates to 1932

The tri colour PI (?) with plate "AZAD" is ex Jaipur

Last edited by karlosdeville : 19th May 2008 at 17:52.
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Old 19th May 2008, 18:45   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
A friend recently visited the Bhogilal museum, and looking at the detailed photos this is the info I can surmise according to the name plates provided.

The 1922 20 hp MMD 1922 is a Hooper body, ex Moin ud Dowla of Hyderabad.

The deep blue Rolls with the chequered pattern on the sides dates to 1932

The tri colour PI (?) with plate "AZAD" is ex Jaipur
Is MMD 1922 a 2 seater? if so its probably:
85K6 1923 Eng no G557 Hooper 2 seater which went to Hyderabad. The mudguard tips look the same as an original picture of the car in The Rolls Royce Twenty book.
I think the deep blue Rolls is a 20/25.
The tri colour Phantom I might be
46 OR 1929 July Series H2 Barker Limousine Maharajah of Jaipur. The rear side window shape looks the same as 75 OR 1929 Barker Landaulette.
Lets see what our elders and betters say

Last edited by Julian UK : 19th May 2008 at 19:01.
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Old 20th May 2008, 02:45   #7
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Its unidentifiable to ME so am posting it here.....spotted in saket.
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Old 20th May 2008, 05:31   #8
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Julian, thanks for starting this thread! Hopefully we can have some of these cars identifed by specific model and Chassis #.

The following are all from Traumautoarchiv and have been identified there as "India" or "Maharaja" Cars
================================================== ========
1930 PII "Dharbanga" Thrupp & Maberly (2-GY ???)

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1930 PII "Nawab Wali-ud-Dowla" Fountain Carriage Works (82-XJ ???)

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1936 PIII Sports Saloon "Indian Maharaja" (3BT75 ???)

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1923 Silver Ghost "Hyderabad"

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1923 Silver Ghost "Indian Body ???"

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From T-BHP (karlosdeville)

ex-Jaipur Car (now in Coimbatore ?)

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Any attempt by all of you whizes at identification is most welcome!

Last edited by travancore : 20th May 2008 at 05:33. Reason: added source
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Old 20th May 2008, 09:18   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faithless_1984 View Post
Its unidentifiable to ME so am posting it here.....spotted in saket.
That appears to be a 46 (ish) Chevrolet Fleetmaster.
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Old 20th May 2008, 10:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Is MMD 1922 a 2 seater? if so its probably:
85K6 1923 Eng no G557 Hooper 2 seater which went to Hyderabad. The mudguard tips look the same as an original picture of the car in The Rolls Royce Twenty book.
Yup, it is a two seater, and the plate below it says "Coachwork: Playboy Roadster by Hooper" !

Can you share the original picture with us? By PM or otherwise
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Old 20th May 2008, 23:31   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Yup, it is a two seater, and the plate below it says "Coachwork: Playboy Roadster by Hooper" !

Can you share the original picture with us? By PM or otherwise
The way this forum works isn't satisfactory: the replies appear miles above the questions. Threads appear to be mixed up or segmented by other questions. Id. of chassis are also far away from the relevant photos. I suggest to use something similar to the RROC forum because I don't think I'll be able to follow up. I have identified several photos in this page but I don't know if you'll be able to make any sense out of it !!
82XJ? is confirmed as 82XJ
TDV-1 is 25/30HP #GTL58, a Mann Egerton limousine.
The beige & black "Indian" body is a Brewster Huntington limousine on PI chassis #S120PR - no Indian connection.
The PIII is chassis 3AZ140, a Binder saloon - No Indian connection either. Do not trust Traumarchives, it's full of miscaptions.
MMD-1922 is 85K6 indeed.
The tri-colour limo is possibly SG 133EM.
The black/basketwork sdv is 20/25HP #GXB71, a Hooper body.
The orange & white replica boat tail is PI #46OR.
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Old 21st May 2008, 02:40   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
The way this forum works isn't satisfactory: the replies appear miles above the questions. Threads appear to be mixed up or segmented by other questions. Id. of chassis are also far away from the relevant photos. I suggest to use something similar to the RROC forum because I don't think I'll be able to follow up. I have identified several photos in this page but I don't know if you'll be able to make any sense out of it !!
82XJ? is confirmed as 82XJ
TDV-1 is 25/30HP #GTL58, a Mann Egerton limousine.
The beige & black "Indian" body is a Brewster Huntington limousine on PI chassis #S120PR - no Indian connection.
The PIII is chassis 3AZ140, a Binder saloon - No Indian connection either. Do not trust Traumarchives, it's full of miscaptions.
MMD-1922 is 85K6 indeed.
The tri-colour limo is possibly SG 133EM.
The black/basketwork sdv is 20/25HP #GXB71, a Hooper body.
The orange & white replica boat tail is PI #46OR.
Andre - thanks again!!!!
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Old 21st May 2008, 04:13   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
The way this forum works isn't satisfactory: the replies appear miles above the questions. Threads appear to be mixed up or segmented by other questions. Id. of chassis are also far away from the relevant photos. I suggest to use something similar to the RROC forum because I don't think I'll be able to follow up.
Andre, if the glorious chaos we have created here gets too much, and you, quite understandably, can't spend the time rummaging through the posts trying to help us (which we appreciate greatly) then perhaps you could consider an occasional batch of photos maybe by email? It would be alot easier for you, though I think we all are appreciating your presence here anyway. Unfortunately the arrangements here seem to be beyond our influence.
I hope you can continue to encourage the development of appreciation of the magnificent cars Rolls Royce sent to India.
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Old 21st May 2008, 12:05   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
The way this forum works isn't satisfactory: the replies appear miles above the questions. Threads appear to be mixed up or segmented by other questions. Id. of chassis are also far away from the relevant photos.
May I suggest any post adding info about a car must be accompanied with a picture of the car in question. That way not only would the viewer get more exposed to the car in question but also be able to absorb the info in the right context.

Its a little extra effort but the end result would be far more educational and easier on the viewer to digest.

As Julian rightly said its beyond our scope to alter the basic structure of the forum so we need to make the most of the platform we have. Further please appreciate this is the first time a collective discussion on vintage automobiles is being recorded and quite obviously because of the inputs from several knowledgeable people the quality of info is apparent. The general public cannot afford the expensive books on Indian Vintage cars (or even if they did not be so interested as to go to the extent of buying one) so in a way we are providing for free info which is both visually appealing and informative. This forum is bound to help in creating an awareness of what the stunning automobiles of yesteryear represented.

As the data accumulates we can always prevail on the team behind this site to further enhance the platform enabling viewers to browse through more easily.
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Old 31st May 2008, 00:18   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
That appears to be a 46 (ish) Chevrolet Fleetmaster.
It is definitely not 1946 - 1946 has a beading along the full length of the bonnet. It is a 1947 or 1948 Chevrolet Fleetmaster. Can't see the grill to confirm. Mohaan
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