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Old 26th May 2009, 13:53   #316
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Since there are Soooo many Merc enthusiasts here, I have a problem, which youll can throw light on.
I own a E320 Cabrio 1994, I need to now source some parts for the convertible top. Not the hydraulic cylinders, which have been replaced, but some cosmetic plastic parts and clips, handles etc. Which would be the right source? Straight from MB Germany or some good dealer from UK? Since these dealers in India are totally no good at this.
The E cabrio is precious to me, and have owned it since 1996.
Maybe Alvis or Starman can help on this.
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Old 26th May 2009, 14:28   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby05 View Post
Since there are Soooo many Merc enthusiasts here, I have a problem, which youll can throw light on.
I own a E320 Cabrio 1994, I need to now source some parts for the convertible top. Not the hydraulic cylinders, which have been replaced, but some cosmetic plastic parts and clips, handles etc. Which would be the right source? Straight from MB Germany or some good dealer from UK? Since these dealers in India are totally no good at this.
The E cabrio is precious to me, and have owned it since 1996.
Maybe Alvis or Starman can help on this.

You could source these from a dealer closer like in the UAE. Check on google for the websites for Emirates Motor Company and Gargash Automobiles. Thy will have what you need and its cheaper to ship to Inida from teh UAE compared to from Europe.
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Old 26th May 2009, 15:25   #318
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scooby,

Wasif is right, you can probably even source used parts from Abu Dhabi or Dubai. These will be much cheaper as MB trim pieces are horribly expensive. If you know somebody they can look or search for these parts in Musaffah in Abu Dhabi or Sharjah Industrial area in the Dubai area.

The 320 Cabrio is a good MB and is already recognised as a future classic and worth every hour of care you relish on her.
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Old 26th May 2009, 15:34   #319
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scooby,

Wasif is right, you can probably even source used parts from Abu Dhabi or Dubai. These will be much cheaper as MB trim pieces are horribly expensive. If you know somebody they can look or search for these parts in Musaffah in Abu Dhabi or Sharjah Industrial area in the Dubai area.

The 320 Cabrio is a good MB and is already recognised as a future classic and worth every hour of care you relish on her.
I have worked on this already a year back. There have not been cabrios in the UAE, they were not popular, because they were very expensive so the used parts are not available. Also for this reason the dealers do not stock any parts for the cabrios. If we try to order on them they take no interest since I need parts for the RHD, and they feel its too much of an effort, since the RHD cabrios were the last of the handmades for the UK market, and most of the parts also at MB Germany are on back order. I have been getting whatever I need thru my associates in Germany, but its now becoming difficult to explain to them exactly the parts I require since part numbers are not available on these plastic parts and the only available films/fisch or whatever they call it has many items not illustrated!!
Maybe Starman being in Australia can help out!!
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Old 26th May 2009, 15:41   #320
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Scooby you will havet try breakers of Mercedes cars or salvage yards. Aplenty in the Us and UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
The S usffix actually appeared on the 1955 W180 / W128 220S & 220SE "Ponton" four door cars.
The Suffix "S' also came in the older S-SSK and the 170S but there they were used only on two door cars and probably did not mean what S means today.

Last edited by V-16 : 26th May 2009 at 15:44. Reason: add
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Old 26th May 2009, 16:34   #321
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The Suffix "S' also came in the older S-SSK and the 170S but there they were used only on two door cars and probably did not mean what S means today.
It meant Super Sports Light (in german, of course )

Aditya
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Old 26th May 2009, 16:52   #322
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Just a minor correction of fact, for the 36/220 and 38/250 from the 1920's and early 30's

S stood for Sport

SS stood for Super Sport

SSK stood for Super Sport Kurt ( short chassis)

SSKL stood for Super Sport Kurt Leight ( short light )

The last mentioned pumping out a claimed 300 BHP!!
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Old 26th May 2009, 19:33   #323
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SSKL was the last of the SS Super Sports Mercedes Cars. The SSKL and the SSK was also supercharged hense K was actually for Kompressor Lightweight with a chassis full of holes drilled in the interest of lightning the weight of the car

The 170S was also a 4 door car but the first car to actually use this S nomenclature to signify a higher spec was the 55 Ponton Car the 220S

Last edited by wasif : 26th May 2009 at 19:44.
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Old 26th May 2009, 19:49   #324
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@Alvis & Wasif - The abbreviations you took are incorrect, although the meanings are right. SSK stands for Super Sport Kurz. And the L at the end of SSKL stands for Licht.

Alvis, the claimed output for the SSKL has not been proved. While some records claim it to be 300BHP, Mercedes' own archives claim it to be close to 240 Bhp.

Similarly, while some records claim the SSK's output to be 225Bhp, Merc's own records claim it to be around 170bhp.

Here's some data from Merc's own archives for proof.

Mercedes-Benz Museum
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Old 26th May 2009, 21:26   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
The 170S was also a 4 door car but the first car to actually use this S nomenclature to signify a higher spec was the 55 Ponton Car the 220S
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
The S usffix actually appeared on the 1955 W180 / W128 220S & 220SE "Ponton" four door cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvis View Post
Probably the first Merc to carry the "S" tag was the 300 S from 1951 to 1962.
Actually it would be the 1949 170S which first used the suffix "S" in sedans. The S already meant the "special" air about it. Probably Mercedes's post war ideology to make cars which were technologically advanced and of a higher spec. These cars were not cheap to buy with teh cabriolet priced at almost 6000 marks above the sedan at 15 800 ofdd Marks therefore they were the first sign of showing to he world that one had arrived. Of course the prices were dropped later for both versions. This IMHO marked the "S" as a special spec car leading to the common theory that S = Sonderclasse


Then came the 220S which carried the tradition of bringing in a car with three trims, in a coupe and two cabriolets. Later to follow would be a highly successful coupe. All are now desired collectibles.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TractionAvant View Post
It meant Super Sports Light (in german, of course )
Aditya
Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
@Alvis & Wasif - The abbreviations you took are incorrect, although the meanings are right. SSK stands for Super Sport Kurz. And the L at the end of SSKL stands for Licht.
[/url]
Bang on Aniket. Leicht means Light and the Kurz meant short wheel base.

A little about the early "S" model.

The "S" model was the masterpiece of Professor Ferdinand Porsche, during his time at Daimler-Benz. He was responsible for churning out the extra power from the SSK models.

Probably the first "S'' was the Stuttgart 260 in 1928. There was a "Special Edition" available for the first time called as such from the Mercedes stable. Since the SS models were already in the making from 1927 onwards, probably they did not want to mix the "S" nomenclature with a car which was not from the Porsche mastermind. That would confuse the buyers of these exclusive and expensive racing machines.

The Special Edition 260 Stuttgart had a few features which made it different from the regular ones.

This was the time for the 370S and the 380S, built as roadsters and cabriolets, more reasonably priced than their SSK siblings. This was the brainchild of Hans Nibel who would go down and correct all flaws as he thought them to be in Porsche's design.
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Old 26th May 2009, 22:28   #326
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I certainly agree with V-16. The 170S was certainly more "Special" than the 170V,I know for sure cause I have a Pre war 170V and have compared it with a 170S Postwar especially a 1951 S. The engine is more peppy due to a bit of tweaking and less noisy,the interiors are not so archaic and the instruments and switchgear are more sophisticated. The 220S was certainly more luxurious and a different ball game altogether, with matching liggage etc.

Last edited by Dussey : 26th May 2009 at 22:30. Reason: Modification in reply.
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Old 27th May 2009, 03:44   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvis View Post
All,

Probably the first Merc to carry the "S" tag was the 300 S from 1951 to 1962. Series W 186/188/189 in all its different versions. The Coupe was 300 SC, and even when the engine was fuel injected in the last versions it did not have the "E" tag.
I think S meant Special in this series of saloons as opposed to a slightly lower base model.

The W 128 series 220 and 220 S are very clear in the difference of trim levels, both external and internal, so I would assume they had Special in mind for the customers willing to pay a bit more. Also the W 128 was the first to use the "E" tag as in 220 SE

Also note that the W 198 300 SL never had the E tag though it was the first Merc to use fuel injection, right upto the end of its life as a Roadster.
Hi Alvis,
You meant W 108, not 128, right?. But was there not also a fintail 220/300 SE? I am not sure, but memory thinks that such a model was there.
But can you please show some writing of the past which confirm 'S' meant special? Agreed, 220 & 220S could imply this, but only imply. Looking for a solid evidence. Because I read that no one remembers the origin and original meaning. As you have mentioned, you 'assume'. In fact I am looking for more opinions AND some evidence.
BTW, someone shoehorned a V8 engine into a fintail and wondered why Benz never thought of that.
Cheers harit
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Old 27th May 2009, 04:20   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby05 View Post
Since there are Soooo many Merc enthusiasts here, I have a problem, which youll can throw light on.
I own a E320 Cabrio 1994, I need to now source some parts for the convertible top. Not the hydraulic cylinders, which have been replaced, but some cosmetic plastic parts and clips, handles etc. Which would be the right source? Straight from MB Germany or some good dealer from UK? Since these dealers in India are totally no good at this.
The E cabrio is precious to me, and have owned it since 1996.
Maybe Alvis or Starman can help on this.
Hi Scooby!

MB is very expensive for any kind of parts. Their formula seems to be older the car, higher the cost.
Try in the gulf as suggested by Wasif, you should succeed. Then UK where you must have contacts. Perhaps V16 can help. If all fails, please PM the chassis no and a copy of the relevant page of the parts catalogue, I could help. I have a source in Germany, not the cheapest, but we can send the sheets to avoid any misunderstanding and first ask for a price. Only the part no. sometimes does not help because MB change part nos with modifications. I experienced this when I needed parts for my 114.

Cheers harit
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Old 27th May 2009, 09:40   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TractionAvant View Post
It meant Super Sports Light (in german, of course )

Aditya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvis View Post
Just a minor correction of fact, for the 36/220 and 38/250 from the 1920's and early 30's

S stood for Sport

SS stood for Super Sport

SSK stood for Super Sport Kurt ( short chassis)

SSKL stood for Super Sport Kurt Leight ( short light )

The last mentioned pumping out a claimed 300 BHP!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by predatorwheelz View Post
@Alvis & Wasif - The abbreviations you took are incorrect, although the meanings are right. SSK stands for Super Sport Kurz. And the L at the end of SSKL stands for Licht.
Oops! Silly mistake,

Thanks for pointing it out Alvis & predatorwheelz. I knew K did not stand for Kompressor since they were all (the S,SS,SSK & SSKL) supercharged. I think there were also the K & SK in this family. I have always found the chronology confusing.

but did you know that the origin of the brand name 'ALVIS' is equally obscure & debated? some say it had something to do with the aluminium bodies they used but that is just an assumption.

Cheers

Aditya

Last edited by TractionAvant : 27th May 2009 at 09:41.
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Old 27th May 2009, 14:51   #330
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"Thanks for pointing it out Alvis & predatorwheelz. I knew K did not stand for Kompressor since they were all (the S,SS,SSK & SSKL) supercharged. I think there were also the K & SK in this family. I have always found the chronology confusing."

aditya

I am in need of a refresher course in German spelling, many thanks to predatorwheelz for coming up with the correct spellings. Mercedes are known for making the most over enginered cars but there is another record they hold, and that is having the most confusing chronology. One thinks that he know everything about these cars until someone else comes along, adds to your knowledge, and this has just gone on and on.

It is true that the Alvis name has no particular meaning, one of the directors of the company was involved with the production of aluminum pistons for aircraft in WW 1, so the AL part traces its presence to the word aluminum, the rest is shrouded in mystery.

harit,

No I did not mean W 108, I actually meant W 180. Of course there was the fintail range of 220/220 S /220 SE and the flagship 300 SE which were the W 111's. The W 111 was the sucessor to the W 180 and W 128 and had the 220/220 S chronology.

MB never got a V 8 into the fintail because of the simple reason that they did not have a V 8 till the introduction of the M 100 series in 1963. They then threw that engine into the W 109 and we got the 300 SEL 6.3.

I have no written proof or article saying in so many words that S means Special, but all the members who have commented on the issue, you would agree that most have put forward logically that S stood for Special. Lets hope someone can back it up with something in writing or an article. I am without any printed reference material or books so will look up when back home.

Take care.

Last edited by Alvis : 27th May 2009 at 14:55.
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