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Old 8th June 2010, 15:31   #181
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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
We have more jaguar XK's in india and one of them has got the wire wheels on it as well. Just wanted to know what is more special about this car then the others ?
wire wheels detract the xk's clean lines, because then you cant put the rear spats on as the spinners foul them. only the xk 150 looks nice with wires, but this is just my opinion.
the imperial xk is a single owner 1948 car, its the first rhd car to be exported, and since its an early car it has an all alloy body. unfortunately it was restored a few years ago, i much prefered it in its original paint.
though im partial to the xk 120 coupe, i believe the one in india has more or less gone into the ground.

P.S: if you are refering to the black xk 140 drophead with wires, then that too came without wires originally and were added later

Last edited by awini : 8th June 2010 at 15:44.
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Old 8th June 2010, 17:43   #182
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Originally Posted by awini View Post
in my opinion, the bhogilal 8 litre should be omitted, at least till it gets a correct body. the other 8 litre im told has a correct replica body.
my 10 at this moment, not in any order.
1. Delage D8s, lalaji
2. Hispano Suiza H6b, Chaudhrie
3. Bugatti typ 13 Brescia, chaudhrie
4. Delahaye 135MS
5. Jaguar XK 120 alloy, Imperial hotel
6. Lagonda V12 Rapide Coupe, me
7. Bentley 4.25 litre MR Vanden Plas, Jaiswal
8. Lanchester straight 8 vanden plas, was with r.n.seth
9. Frazer-Nash B.M.W 328, Sanghi
10. Cord 812, sanghi
this of course keeps changing with my mood.

Awini.

Thats a great compilation but as you said its from your heart not strictly on money values alone.

The list we are trying to compile is of the top dolllar cars in India, and that too a million and above !!!!!
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Old 8th June 2010, 19:13   #183
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Awini.

Thats a great compilation but as you said its from your heart not strictly on money values alone.

The list we are trying to compile is of the top dolllar cars in India, and that too a million and above !!!!!
ah but this is just this week,s top ten :-) i see no point in a list of million dollar cars as there are none for sale in the indian market. Plus, in my view every 8litre or 500/540k are not million dollar cars, certainly not the bhogilal 8litre which i think would fetch 300-350k gbp if it were immaculate with original body. I dont know what body the second 8had. Similarly, the 500k here has a pretty common body (for a 500k) and i doubt its a million dollar car in the open market. So it is with the ghost, which i would put a little above the tsar's ghost, which i think fetched slightly under 300k gbp, well below million dollars. Everyone is of course free to disagree with me. :-)
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:15   #184
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Looks like this thread is taking a turn towards the subjective. While a car’s exact value cannot be accurately ascertained (and therefore, can be endlessly debated), the marque and model that it belongs to is as empirical an indication a value as can be set e.g. a generic Silver Ghost is always going to worth more than a generic XK120 (I use the term ‘generic’, because cars like the Appleton’s NUB 120 is clearly rather more valuable than your bog standard XK).

Subjectivity has its place of course, but I would venture that that is perhaps under a thread such as “My top ten favourite vintage cars in India”. Just my opinion and no offence meant to anyone.

Best of luck with finding a top ten…. Without a disciplined approach and some sort of consistent marker, everyone is going to have a different choice

All the best. Over and out.

Last edited by Faster789 : 8th June 2010 at 21:16.
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:17   #185
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Can't make any thing out from your last post Faster ?

What are you saying ?

Whats over and out about ? Are you quitting this thing ? C'mon the fun is just about to begin

Don't run out on us now mate !

Last edited by wasif : 8th June 2010 at 21:19.
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:47   #186
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Don't run out on us now mate !
Hi Wasif,

I'll follow the thread from time to time. I've said my piece (for whatever little it might be worth) and to repeat myself would just end up boring everyone.

I will probably make a contribution if it becomes more objective, or if there is something of substance that I might be able to contribute.

I think the problem here is misinformation, a lack of current information and too much subjectivity. It is difficult therefore, to formulate any comprehensive opinion. Sitting around and trying to make sense of everyone's personal opinions, is something that is beyond my talents.

I am sure that wiser men than I will take this thread to its logicial conclusion.
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Old 9th June 2010, 01:23   #187
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Hi!

I am not sure about anything on this thread. Could someone explain to me about objective and subjectivities in relation to this thread?
We have right from the beginning talked about cars that are still in India. So why do we try to follow international valuation?
To be objective, we should list a car and give good reasons why it is in the list, and also why certain cars are not in the list. Valuation cannot be a criteria, because prices in India today are over the top of international prices. And the car being considered as TOP was exchanged for a JEEP. Valuation is a very tricky subject. All know about the Pratapgarh Lanchester. Resereve price as far as we heard was an amount X. The bidding in the international auction circuit reached far below that. Now the asking price is many times X, I know people who were/are in the fray. This means that Indian prices are higher when an exotic car does come up for sale. An MG TC restored to Kolkata standards will fetch more in India than abroad.
So selecting top ten cars from an enthusiasts point of view, according to me is more objective if good reasoning is given. Basic objective reasoning is provenance, history, and personal liking which can be considered as subjective. But, provenance and history are objective.
If you see Bhogilal's Bentley 8 Litre, the body is not very likable, the rounded rear is out of proportion. That is not subjective, God gave us eyes and taste. Have you ever seen that car splashed across western print? But the Delahaye certainly has been featured across the world.
The Ravi Kumar/Shroff 540K has a provenance no other 540K in the world can match. Those who know why will agree. A teutonic devil at its Indian best, superior to the stiff upper lip of a British Rolls, even if the Nizam owned it. Still, the Nizams Rolls has a provenance just after The Silver Ghost. Recently a Silver Ghost claimed to have belonged to Russian Royalty was sold, it had ugly bold colours and was promptly forgotton after the sale. But the Nizams Rolls will always be remembered once seen.
Advocatus Bentley being put back with a correct sporting body cannot be denied.
The unique Golden Daimler is unique in this world. I request Kasli to post the picture. That was not a Maharaja car, and still was gold plated.
The horse carriage Lanchester again is unique. And I can go on.
None are million Dollar cars, if they were to be restored to mint they may even touch that figure. But they have provenance and history, and can stand and face any competition.
The Alfa 1750 has a Gurney Nutting body, three headlights, the type of car you would expect to see in the Mille Miglia races. Hope this answers Wasif's querry. And our Million Dollar club is not even aware.
Awini also agrees, the Indian 500K's are not million dollar cars, but anyway, why tie up this thread to a million dollars? We have great cars in India, as they are unlikely to be available for sale in the near future, how and why should we value them?
I have tried to give a reason for my selection for some of the top 10, have clearly spelt out the reasoning, have tried to add to info on some cars which seems to be lacking. This discussion can be more detailed, if not dismissed as subjective.
For example, the Alwar Lanchester is so unique that someone went ahead and recreated a sort of replica on a Hispano chassis. There must have been something in that car to sacrifice a Hispano chassis.
And, again I state, this is my opinion, and I am willing to discuss if I am not being dismissed as being subjective.
This thread is not about million dollar cars, there are very few cars in India which would qualify, it is about 10 top collectable cars. A subject as wide as the colours of the spectrum with all shades listed separately.

BTW, what was the colour of Dr. Rossi's Lancia? I am dying to know.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 9th June 2010 at 01:27.
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:22   #188
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
I agree with you Faster but what I was saying is that as per the title fo this thread it would be a fun exercise to compile a list a the ten most valuable collectors cars in India.

Now going by your approach to locate ten million dollar cars in India is not possible.

In the million dollar catagory only the five cars listed below would come close and like DFG said if a Duesy emerges or the Caddy V16 it would go on the list but apart from these tell me if you feel there are any more.

1. 540K
2. Bentley 8 Litre - Advocatus
3. Delahaye 135 M
4. Daimler Double Six
5. RR Silver Ghost Throne Car

Now going by the title of this thread a list of top ten collector cars in India today would go as below. This is as per my personal judgment and am open to correction adn sugessions on this.

1. 540K
2. Bentley 8 Litre - Advocatus
3. Delahaye 135 M
4. Daimler Double Six
5. RR Silver Ghost Throne Car
6. Mercedes 500 K Gondol / Bombay
7. Stutz - Titus
8. Marmon
9. Lanchester Coach Alwar
10. RR P II - Jodhpur No 27 94 RF

What do you feel about this !

Also it would be nice if anyone can compile the list with actual pictures of these cars
Harit.

Its funny but your post sounds so much like this one quoted above that I had made soem time ago.

This thread should restrict itself to the top most valuable / collectable cars in India and automatically it will also be a list of the most valuable cars in India as desirability and collectability are parameters that govern the pricing.

I have said from the onset that there are hardly any cars in India today that would break the million dollar barrier.

Harit. Could you please put up some pics of that Alfa, what year is it from and what is the story behind it.

Also would love to see pics of the Marmon, Golden Daimler and the Bhogilal 540K
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:25   #189
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Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
Sitting around and trying to make sense of everyone's personal opinions, is something that is beyond my talents.
I quite agree with this. Using the probable international valuation aspect was only to bring some consensus on which car stands the best or second best or...so on..chance of making it to a million dollar category.

Bringing personal preferences into this equation will make it impossible to arrive at consensus.

Besides if you expand the measure to include parameters beyond the million dollar (or ones that come close) cars one, you invariably expand the list. It then won't be top ten as India will immediately have top 50 or top 100 collectible cars coming in.

This exercise is like trying to figure out India's top 10 most desirable women to marry !!! It will take more than a hundred years to agree on the list !!

Keep it simple, use probable international valuation and the list closes at 6 cars max which have already been listed. Expand the criteria for evaluation and you have 50 cars competing and rightfully so !
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:37   #190
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Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
a generic Silver Ghost is always going to worth more than a generic XK120 (I use the term ‘generic’, because cars like the Appleton’s NUB 120 is clearly rather more valuable than your bog standard XK).
Completely off topic, but you know, NUB 120 now is technically in Indian ownership after the Tata takeover
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Old 9th June 2010, 11:50   #191
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Harit.

Its funny but your post sounds so much like this one quoted above that I had made soem time ago.

This thread should restrict itself to the top most valuable / collectable cars in India and automatically it will also be a list of the most valuable cars in India as desirability and collectability are parameters that govern the pricing.

I have said from the onset that there are hardly any cars in India today that would break the million dollar barrier.

Harit. Could you please put up some pics of that Alfa, what year is it from and what is the story behind it.

Also would love to see pics of the Marmon, Golden Daimler and the Bhogilal 540K
Below is car similar to the Sanghi Alfa, picture taken from classiccarrepair (sefeldtauto) and is for representation purpose only.
Unfortunately the Sanghi car has lost its engine. And there is also an ownership dispute, adding to its tale of woe. But would you not consider this among the top 10 collectible cars in India today? I do not have pictures of the original car, but I have seen it, it used to lie just 2 buildings away from my home! And then it went to a dealer in Juhu, and was completely coated in red oxide.
The golden Daimler if I remember correctly is also pictured in the Maharaja book by Barwani. Shall check at night.

Cheers harit
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Old 9th June 2010, 13:11   #192
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Below is car similar to the Sanghi Alfa, picture taken from classiccarrepair (sefeldtauto) and is for representation purpose only.
Unfortunately the Sanghi car has lost its engine. And there is also an ownership dispute, adding to its tale of woe. But would you not consider this among the top 10 collectible cars in India today? I do not have pictures of the original car, but I have seen it, it used to lie just 2 buildings away from my home! And then it went to a dealer in Juhu, and was completely coated in red oxide.
The golden Daimler if I remember correctly is also pictured in the Maharaja book by Barwani. Shall check at night.

Cheers harit
Yes that is a true top ten car for sure.... but bodied by Gurney Nutting....most of these were bodied by James Young and others. Love thier looks and it should not be that big a problem to sourse a reproduced engine with the supercharger and all from Europe. What is the history of this Alfa ?
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Old 9th June 2010, 14:30   #193
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The car is missing an engine, Body is a gurney nutting coachwork. Its a coupe and much larger to this image. I shall dig up the picture and post the daimler past and present and the Alfa.

Cheers



Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
Below is car similar to the Sanghi Alfa, picture taken from classiccarrepair (sefeldtauto) and is for representation purpose only.
Unfortunately the Sanghi car has lost its engine. And there is also an ownership dispute, adding to its tale of woe. But would you not consider this among the top 10 collectible cars in India today? I do not have pictures of the original car, but I have seen it, it used to lie just 2 buildings away from my home! And then it went to a dealer in Juhu, and was completely coated in red oxide.
The golden Daimler if I remember correctly is also pictured in the Maharaja book by Barwani. Shall check at night.

Cheers harit
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Old 17th June 2010, 10:51   #194
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Originally Posted by kasli View Post
The car is missing an engine, Body is a gurney nutting coachwork. Its a coupe and much larger to this image. I shall dig up the picture and post the Daimler past and present and the Alfa.

Cheers
This thread seems to have quieted down. Kasli, please post the picture of the Daimler.
Attached is a picture of the Gondal 500K, the picture looks better than what the car actually is. There are more and better pictures in the book The Story of The Star in India, by Gautam Sen. That car requires complete restoration.
Probably, for the present, one of only two known 500K's in India. Other is the Mumbai car now with Cama. I would still put the 540K ahead of these two.
BTW, but useful info. If you are driving your car and the wipers are not working 100%, old or worn or of bad quality, and it is darkish and cloudy, try wearing sunglasses. They cut out that peculiar glare which you get on your screen under these circumstances. It works for me, my Amby wipers are still made with old technology (inefficient, politely said), and today morning I was spotted practicing this.
Cheers harit
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Old 17th June 2010, 12:09   #195
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WOW that is a nice looking 500K.

Could you please post soem pics of the Bhogilal 540K ....I have been asking for them from a while now but nobody seems to want to do this.

What is the history of that car ?
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