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Old 10th May 2010, 17:44   #91
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I think we have missed "Stutz Speedster" (find / discovery of the year car) of the Titus.
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Old 11th May 2010, 01:35   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
For that you will need to first post pictures of all the cars on that list so that the people choosing are aware of what car they are choosing / voting for.

Do post the pictures first and we will go ahead from there.

I particularly want to see the pictures of the Marmon and the Cadillac V16 South !
Well that's going to be a tough one to do. Where do i get pics for the cars which has been only seen by a few people?Anyway i think our members can help us with that. We already have some of the photographs on the first few pages of this thread.I will also try and get some.




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Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
I think you'd be better of starting a separate poll hypyerlinked from this thread. If this website has that facility.

Good list.
The website does have the facility but only the creater of the thread can do it (i maybe wrong).Looking forward to some contribution from the people only watching and not contributing.



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Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
I think we have missed "Stutz Speedster" (find / discovery of the year car) of the Titus.
Well i did miss that one out. So here's the revised list once again.-


  • Delahaye 135 MS (Jodhpur)
  • Daimler Double Six UP
  • Daimler Golden body Indore
  • Bentley Advocatus
  • Marmon Indore
  • 540K Pune
  • Lagonda M45 (Seth)
  • RR Phantom II Continental
  • V12 Lagonda with Bhogilal
  • V12 Lagonda with Awini
  • Packard Twin Six with Mallya
  • Invicta with Bhogilal
  • 6 1/2 litre Bentley
  • 8 litre Bentley with Bhogilal
  • Bugatti with Mallya
  • 1912 RR Throne Car of the Nizam
  • 1906 Napiers of the Nizam
  • Delage D8s Figoni et Falatchi DHC (lalaji ,Delhi)
  • Pierce Arrow tourer, mallya
  • Packard tourer, Datia
  • Rolls Royce 40/50hp Boat tail tourer, Vizianagaram
  • Bentley 4.25 litre MR, Vanden Plas tourer, jaiswal, delhi
  • Lagonda M45r ex Nath, Indore?
  • Hispano Suiza H6b tourer, Chowdhry, Delhi
  • Bentley 3.5 litre? Gurney Nutting coupe, Bhigilal
  • Riley Imp/Elf? roadster, Bhogilal
  • Lanchester 40hp tourer, ex Gondal, Mallya
  • Mercedes Type K of Mallya
  • Maybach of Kolhapur
  • Cord Supercharged convertible
  • Minerva Type AL- Diljeet Titus
  • Cadillac V 16, South (don't know if it exists)
  • Lanchester Alwar (don't know if it exists)
  • Stutz Speedster - Diljeet Titus

Last edited by IndrojitSircar : 11th May 2010 at 01:44.
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Old 11th May 2010, 11:36   #93
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I want to see the pics of both the Daimlers mentioned too apart from the Marmon, the 540K Pune, Packard Twin Six, Delage D8 Delhi, Boat Tailed RR and the Caddie V16.

Please see what you can do about them.

Why is the Delhi 630/670 K Merc not on this list.
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Old 11th May 2010, 12:05   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
  • V12 Lagonda with Bhogilal
  • 8 litre Bentley with Bhogilal
  • Bugatti with Mallya
  • Pierce Arrow tourer, mallya
  • Packard tourer, Datia
  • Riley Imp/Elf? roadster, Bhogilal
  • Mercedes Type K of Mallya
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
I want to see the pics of both the Daimlers mentioned too apart from the Marmon, the 540K Pune, Packard Twin Six, Delage D8 Delhi, Boat Tailed RR and the Caddie V16.

Please see what you can do about them.

Why is the Delhi 630/670 K Merc not on this list.
Pics of the Double Six are on the forum, car is in poor condition, so cant make out much. Pics of the Twin Six Packard are also there, she is also in derelict condition but being restored. Pics of 540K are also present.

I would cut out V12 Lagonda with Bhogilal, as it would be superceded by Awini's lovely roadster, also V12.

No point having 2 8 litre Bentleys, I would strike off Bhogilal's car as it is a 4 door chop top. Still lovely, but the other would be better methinks. The other car also has a period performance kit, which I think adds to the desirability factor.

Bugatti and Pierce Arrow of Mallya - both very nice, but top 10 material? I think not. And if we keep Mallya's Pierce Arrow, then we should add 2 more identical cars, also restored, with Jasdanwalla and Sanghi. I vote out. Same for Packard Tourer, Datia.

I would also vote out the Riley with Bhogilal. Nice, but not top 10.

When we have a 540K on the list, I would think we can remove the K Type.
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Old 11th May 2010, 16:03   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
I want to see the pics of both the Daimlers mentioned too apart from the Marmon, the 540K Pune, Packard Twin Six, Delage D8 Delhi, Boat Tailed RR and the Caddie V16.

Please see what you can do about them.

Why is the Delhi 630/670 K Merc not on this list.
Well Caddy V16 will be a tough one to get but i can try for the Delage D8 Delhi car.I am trying to get all the pics of the cars mentioned leaving the ones i can't do anything about.

Will upload them soon. Well can we sort out the model issue first on that thread and then add it in the list ? There seems to be alot of confussion with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Pics of the Double Six are on the forum, car is in poor condition, so cant make out much. Pics of the Twin Six Packard are also there, she is also in derelict condition but being restored. Pics of 540K are also present.

I would cut out V12 Lagonda with Bhogilal, as it would be superceded by Awini's lovely roadster, also V12.

No point having 2 8 litre Bentleys, I would strike off Bhogilal's car as it is a 4 door chop top. Still lovely, but the other would be better methinks. The other car also has a period performance kit, which I think adds to the desirability factor.

Bugatti and Pierce Arrow of Mallya - both very nice, but top 10 material? I think not. And if we keep Mallya's Pierce Arrow, then we should add 2 more identical cars, also restored, with Jasdanwalla and Sanghi. I vote out. Same for Packard Tourer, Datia.

I would also vote out the Riley with Bhogilal. Nice, but not top 10.

When we have a 540K on the list, I would think we can remove the K Type.
I agree with you on this there is no point in having one car and not having the other 2 in the case of the Mallya cars.But would also like to use the same parameteres for the Lagonda's and the Bentley's as well ?


I think let a few more members put across their ideas and then we can make the changes in the list.

Last edited by IndrojitSircar : 11th May 2010 at 16:06.
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Old 11th May 2010, 16:06   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
I would cut out V12 Lagonda with Bhogilal, as it would be superceded by Awini's lovely roadster, also V12.
Why? Awini's car is also factory bodied and not a one off from a coachbuilder. No reason why Bhogilal's car should not be considered.
Quote:
No point having 2 8 litre Bentleys, I would strike off Bhogilal's car as it is a 4 door chop top
So is Rony Khan's car. It was a hardtop coupe before it too was butchered !! The doors on it are a joke, possible fabricated by some over enthusiastic furniture carpenter !!

We go back to the criteria. International valuation is a easy premise. As it takes into consideration many aspects making it so expensive.

The clear winner will be the Nizam's Rolls Royce. In my mind it will be the most expensive car ever in the world if it ever comes up on the block. To think that the Rajkot RR gets a crazy pricing I would shudder to think what the Nizam's Rolls would end up at.

In terms of valuation it would be

1. Nizam's RR (BTW the alterations is a small issue and the car can be corrected back to its original design)
2. Delahaye

Last edited by DKG : 11th May 2010 at 16:08.
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Old 11th May 2010, 16:21   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Why? Awini's car is also factory bodied and not a one off from a coachbuilder. No reason why Bhogilal's car should not be considered.

So is Rony Khan's car. It was a hardtop coupe before it too was butchered !! The doors on it are a joke, possible fabricated by some over enthusiastic furniture carpenter !!
Agreed, though I simply thought Awini's being a roadster is far more attractive/desirable/collectable than a more conventional saloon.

Yes, both Bentleys were converts, my mistake I didn't word it correctly. Rony Khan's car is undergoing restoration (and I'm sure doors would be corrected) and I thought had a much more pleasing looking body, compared to the 4 door cabrio. Plus the kit I thought put it slightly ahead.

When two cars are similar, we look to see what sets one apart from the other. Just my thought. But yes, you make very valid points.
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Old 11th May 2010, 16:40   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Agreed, though I simply thought Awini's being a roadster is far more attractive/desirable/collectable than a more conventional saloon.
Bhogilal's car is a saloon? Thought it too was a convertible. I too feel Awini's car is gorgeous.

Usually internationally they would look at the cars which were at the top end of the spectrum, RR's, Delahayes, Bugatti, Duesenberg, Hispano's etc followed by whether it is a one off coachbuilt car and also the body style and production figures.

Quote:
I thought had a much more pleasing looking body, compared to the 4 door cabrio. Plus the kit I thought put it slightly ahead.
Absolutely no doubt. The Rony Khan car is a wow car!! It has some really confusing features though. Its not a properly modded Mckenzie car. It just received a Mckenzie modded engine. All other aspects are standard for the 8 litre. But all that aside its an awesome car. Simply fabulous.
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Old 11th May 2010, 16:47   #99
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
No reason why Bhogilal's car should not be considered.
Absolutely - lots of W.O. Bentleys have been rebodied as Le Mans reps because that's what is thought desirable (by some). No different from all the Frazer Nash Le Mans Replica replicas, etc. It's all about the original chassis and the engine. There are lots of "8 litres" about, which are a *******ised version of an 8 litre engine (some rebored) in different chassis. The Indian Bentleys are the real thing and their bodywork is not going to make a significant impact on their desireability.

A good little article covering notable 8 litres and some prices achieved.

Bentley 8 Litre - Supercars.net

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
We go back to the criteria. International valuation is a easy premise. As it takes into consideration many aspects making it so expensive.
Agreed. It's the closest to an accurate list we will get that way. Perhaps once we have set out the cars in this fashion, we could rate those 10 by what their particular history appeal in India would be. That way we will have a list of the ten most collectible cars (as judged by an international market) and a list of which of those appeal the most to the Indian psyche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
To think that the Rajkot RR gets a crazy pricing I would shudder to think what the Nizam's Rolls would end up at.
RM Auctions

Is this the car you are referring to? £500,000 is hardly a "crazy" if it is. The car was given a lot of pre-auction hype with much, much higher figures quoted. Auctions are a litmus test of what a car is worth at a particular time and they hype before a number of auction I have personally attended is almost amusing. The Nizam's Rolls may well break records, but equally the Rajkot one was supposed to (Rolls Royce Star of India on auction) but didn't even get near.
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Old 11th May 2010, 16:55   #100
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Bhogilal's car is a saloon? Thought it too was a convertible. I too feel Awini's car is gorgeous.
Now I think I am mixing up some cars. I stand corrected, the Bhogilal V12 is indeed a cabrio, yellow with black fenders, I think ex Baroda. The saloon I was talking of is dark grey, and not a V12. Yes, its back on the list
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Old 11th May 2010, 16:58   #101
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So what do we think should we add the 630/680 K car in the list too ?
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Old 11th May 2010, 17:06   #102
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If you look at a simple measure of obscene prices Indian cars will command then it would be

1. Nizam's RR
2. Delahaye
3. Daimler Double Six
4. 540/500 Bombay car, Gondal car and the Jackie Shroff car
5. Rony Khan Bentley
6. Bhogilal Bentley


I feel on an international level it may stop there. Having said that the last two would have a huge huge gap in pricing compared to the earlier. So possibly its just the first four meaning 6 cars.

The next level will easily add 30 cars. And they are all fabulous.

Last edited by DKG : 11th May 2010 at 17:08.
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Old 11th May 2010, 17:13   #103
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
If you look at a simple measure of obscene prices Indian cars will command then it would be

1. Nizam's RR
2. Delahaye
3. Daimler Double Six
4. 540/500 Bombay car, Gondal car and the Jackie Shroff car
5. Rony Khan Bentley
6. Bhogilal Bentley


I feel on an international level it may stop there.

The next level will easily add 30 cars. And they are all fabulous.
A decent first bit of filtering. The cars above are in another league. The majority of the others on the list are "lesser" examples of great marques. The Silver Ghost, 8 Litre, Royales, 540ks were the respective halo cars and are still the most desirable in the majority of cases. Things like 35Bs, Blowers Bentleys etc, are proportionately valuable depending on their racing history and not valuable (relatively of course, they are very, very expensive!) just because of what they are.
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Old 11th May 2010, 19:03   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
I think you'd be better of starting a separate poll hypyerlinked from this thread. If this website has that facility.
We can add a multi-choice, public (ie voters names visible) poll to this thread itself. However, first the candidate list needs to be ironed out. Seems like that is slowly happening.

cya
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Old 11th May 2010, 19:27   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post

1. Nizam's RR
2. Delahaye
3. Daimler Double Six
4. 540/500 Bombay car, Gondal car and the Jackie Shroff car
5. Rony Khan Bentley
6. Bhogilal Bentley


I feel on an international level it may stop there. Having said that the last two would have a huge huge gap in pricing compared to the earlier. So possibly its just the first four meaning 6 cars.
A huge gap? Really? From what I can see, that might not be correct.

It depends on the particular car itself at this level, but even then difference is not a big one. I attach the links below to evidence my opinion.

The average Mercedes 540K at auction will fetch around the $1m mark.

RM AUCTIONS

The average 500k as below.

RM AUCTIONS

Silver Ghosts have varied wildly and as I showed above, what the Rajkot car was hyped at and what it went for are very different.

RM AUCTIONS

Delahaye as below

RM AUCTIONS

The average 8 Litre is not much different as you can see.

RM AUCTIONS

As you can see the highest prices ever achieved at auction for these cars (at least on RM's site) are:

540k - $3.9m (second highest was $2.5m the same year, so clearly this car was exceptional, even for a 540k)

500k - $2.9m

Delahaye 135m - $2.1m

8 Litre - $2.2m

RR Silver Ghost - $0.9m (Nizam's car potentially superior though)

As I have said, the only confirmable figures I can think of are available from reputable auctions sites. The same cars often change hands privately for much more (and much less). Sometimes, a car breaks the ceiling price at auction but that car is the exception to the average.

RM Auctions are arguably at the top of their game at the moment which is why I am using their links. There are of course, other superb auction houses but I am not going to trawl the web for each individual result.
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