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Old 28th July 2009, 18:29   #106
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Guys I never questioned the owners claim on this car but was looking for conclusive evidence of this.

Now its know all the Golden Hawks had that body number. am trying to optain more infor on this particular number on that plate.

Now it would have been much earlier clarified had the pics of the engine bay or for that matter teh dash were posted earlier.

I am still very curious and eagerly await teh day when we can actually see the engine bay pics, the carb and the dash.

Indrojit please do oblige. I understand you have mentioned that the engine is opened up even then please do post some pics of it and the speedo and dash.
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Old 28th July 2009, 20:28   #107
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Hi Indrojit.

I was in touch with Frank Ambrogio of the Studebaker Golden hawk Owners regestry regarding your car and he has provided some facinating details on this. these are re produced below along with a copy of your cars original production order. Please send me an email address for you so that i can forward this correspondence to you.

Hi Wasif:
Thank you for writing and for sending the body number of your friend's car. That car is a new one for my register and I have added it to my records.
  • The "K" in the Body Number (56J-K7) identifies your friend's car ISa 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk. If the car was a Sky Hawk, that letter would have been an"H"(56H-K7).
  • The Serial Number, which should have been on a plate on the Driver's side door jamb is 6032564
  • The Golden Hawk has small fibreglass fins on the rear quarter panels. The Sky Hawk does not. The Golden Hawk came with a Packard 352 cubic inch V-8 engine. The valve covers are secured with bolts along the lower lip of the covers.
  • The Sky Hawk came with a Studebaker 289 cubic inch V-8. The valve covers are secured with four bolts that go right through the top of the valve covers.
I have attached a copy of the car's production order from my data base, which I generated from the original production orders from Studebaker. The production order shows a Destination of: UNITED STATES MISC which means it was sent somewhere outside the United States. Where I don't know. The production order lists the equipment that was originally on the car as well as the original color. This may help you confirm that this is the same car

Here are several things that will help:
  • Our web site at www.1956GoldenHawk.com has a lot of information posted there, including a Parts Manual, Authenticity Guide, and all the back issues of our newsletter. Click on Options, and look down the column on the left for these. These are all available on CD, but they are free on the web site. Click on Publications and Products to see the CD listing.
  • Also, go to my other web site at
  • www.StudebakerVendors.comThere you will find links to most of the vendors with web sites who can help. Most have email addresses listed where you can contact them directly.
  • I have uploaded a series of Authenticity videos on YouTube.com. My channel is at: YouTube - 56sghor's Channel There you can watch all the videos I've posted, including the Authenticity Guide series of about 11 videos. Each is less than 10 minutes long. Hopefully, YouTube is available in the UAE and India. If not, I have also just completed a Restorer's Guide on DVD which is made up of the YouTube videos.
  • We have a 1956 Golden Hawk Message Forum where about 150 owners ask and answer questions. I will send you an invitation to join in a separate email from my Yahoo Email address. You (and/or your friend) can join or drop out at any time and no one will bother you.
You have come to the right place. Our goal is to help get/keep all 1956 Golden Hawks on the road

Sincerely:

Frank Ambrogio
1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk Owners Register
STUDEBAKER VENDORS WEB SITE PARTS DIRECTORY

Isnt this amazing, they even have the cars key number for you along with the accessories it came with .... imagine how that Kleenex dispenser that cam with it might have looked like ?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf prodorders 2564.pdf (61.8 KB, 310 views)

Last edited by wasif : 28th July 2009 at 20:31.
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Old 29th July 2009, 01:51   #108
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Hi V16 , DKG and Wasif

Thank you for taking out a bit of time for this matter.It ment a lot to me to proove that my car is a 1956 Golden hawk.There were many people who told me not to bother and proove that if it is or not a golden hawk including my own father.He told me one thing that it doesn't matter what people think it is but we know what our car is.I still felt that since i started discussing and joined this forum to know about vintage & Classic cars it is my duty to atleast try and help others.Many people don't have good views about this forum but i would like to change their views.We need to be a bit more supportive and try and put things in such a way that people don't feel hurt about things.I am not angry or hurt about anything anyone told me so no appolagies required .I just wanted everyone to know that it is the only 1956 Golden Hawk in India.I want to see this car on the road as soon as possible and would require some parts which i shall look for using the links given by Wasif.This i think would then be the only 1956 Golden Hawk in India perhaps. Anyway Thank you Mr.Gogi and DKG for all the support you have given me i'm really greatful to you. Thank you wasif for all the info you have provided for both my mercedes and golden hawk really apriciate your help.Prabal has also given me a lot of info about this car and has supported me time and again.Wasif i shall put up pics of the engine,dash,meters fins etc next time i'm there with the car and hope to do some more work on this car.Anymore quaries please feel free to ask.The support provided by all changed my view about this forum and am sure it will of others as well after seing each and ever discussion taken place.


Cheers

Indrojit Sircar

Last edited by Technocrat : 29th July 2009 at 12:57. Reason: Please avoid quiting entire full quote while replying. Thanks
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Old 29th July 2009, 03:10   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
Dear Indrojit, please end this with engine pics. All of us like Golden Hawks, hence the keen interest and excess discussions.

Prabal, Googling is more convenient, the old paper publications have to be gone through. Sometimes the dust gets in the throat.

I have long back changed my opinion that this could indeed be a Golden Hawk. But if we can confirm 100% it will add to our knowledge.

Empirical data, well there is a gap. In the 1950's consulates could sell off their cars directly to individuals, STC came later. One could follow up with STC about cars which had gone through their hands. But what about pre STC cars? I got a 1953 Packard Mayfair coupe which this person purchased from the American Embassy and took straight to Kerala. So the car was hardly known till we came across her.
I very much want this to be the second Golden Hawk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
Wasif, the bigger fins on the Golden Hawk came about in 1957. The '56 GH had smaller fins. The fins, made of fibreglass, were also bolted on! So even if the fender had been there on her right now, the fin could still have been removed! But then, the whole fender is not there in the first place!!



Harit, the Kolkata car in question here is clearly a 1956, not only because the owner says so, but also going by the shape. And Silver Hawks were introduced in 1957! They also had B-pillars, while Mr Sircar's Stude is clearly pillarless. So while there may have been a Silver Hawk in Calcutta, it would be a different one and not Mr. Sircar's. And for reference/research, why are we only using Mr. Google. Whatever happened to the good old brick-and-mortar paper publications?! Lazy about that too?!



Why are we going on conjecturing that Indrojit's car isn't a Golden Hawk? Is it because of the fins? Well, Indrojit had clarified earlier also, few days ago that is, that the fenders are removed, hence the fins are not showing (although one can make that out from the pictures oneself!) We've also just seen about the small and bigger fins on the Goldie a couple of lines above in this post, so there. The Pune car is clearly a '57 or later.

Or, is it because of the engine? Indrojit had also clarified a few days ago that she is indeed powered by the 352 cid V8 engine. Does anyone else know otherwise for a fact? Or is there any way of telling otherwise from here? So no harm in going with what Indrojit has been saying, and after he's had to say it once too often, right? Maybe, just maybe, Indrojit has got it slightly wrong somewhere (although he says that the Blue-book also says it's a Golden Hawk!), even then she would be nothing less than a Sky Hawk (which you too had correctly remarked earlier). The Sky Hawk might have been less loaded than the Goldie and therefore cheaper, but it is even rarer because fewer pieces were made to start with. So it's very very desirable too. The Golden and Sky Hawks were the only pillarless ones (no B-pillar that is) so it's not difficult to tell - just saving those search engines from being revved!!

Is there any empirical data that shows only one Golden Hawk ever coming to India?! I don't know why I get this feeling, deep down in the recess of my often-truant memory, that I remember more!

I have written in another post that I had been acquainted with Indrojit's very car way back in 1979 and I remember her as a Golden Hawk! But, instead of relying on my geriatric memory which tends to play tricks at the most inopportune times these days, I would only go by what Indrojit has been reiterating, time and again. I would really like to believe him, because I do so want her to be a Goldie after all. And from all the available clues at the moment with the rest of us, I'd say he's in the best position to know what she really is!
Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
The red Hawk was never considered to be a Golden Hawk. See my post reproduced below:

16th April 2009, 19:38 harit
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This Kolkotta car is probably a Silver Hawk. A friend had seen it 10 years ago and it was shabby, and some minor modifications were done on it. There is always a chance that that was another car, but there were not too many around. BTW, was there also a Silver Hawk? Too lazy to google.
In Mumbai we have a 1956 Studebaker Flight Hawk having a straight 6 cylinder engine with automatic gearbox. That car came originally from Kolkotta.
Last edited by harit : 16th April 2009 at 19:40.


The owner of that car is a personal friend of mine.

Cheers harit
Dear Harit and Prabal,

Thank you very much both have you have been helping and supporting me for a long time and now that my car has been officially on team-bhp been prooved a golden hawk we should be glad that it is the only one perhaps with the 352cubic inch packard engine.Prabal has specially been very helpful evertime in the past to help me proove that it is a golden hawk.Anyway no hard feelings now we should try and get it on the road as soon as possible.Thankx again Prabal.



cheers
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Old 29th July 2009, 10:41   #110
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Well Gents.

I hope this conclusively proves that the Sircar Study is a 56 Golden Hawk..and as Indrojit pointed out this probably the only one to be found in India. That along with its amazing specs make this car truly priceless.

It is one of maybe 200 cars of this kind that are known to have survivied worldwide.

Now the interesting thing would be to try and learn who actually ordered this car and how it made its way to India. The regestry says it was an Export but they don't know where to or who for.

Given all this I feel it is imperative that this car recieves a world class restoration which I am sure can be accomplished by the owners going by what we have seen on their other cars.

In this endavour many parts will have to be imported and the costs will be great but at the end of the day the total will be insignificant compared to the value addition to the car.

There is strong vendor support for this car available and I am offering my help to Indrojit in any form that he needs to get items for his car.

Attached are pictures or a 56 Golden hawk in the Snowcap White / Sunglow Gold paint scheme that would have originally come on this car too.

And just for good measures they threw in power windows, white walls, seat belts, tinted glasses and a couple of things more as can be seen from the build sheet.

Note the speedo goes all the way to 160 MPH and this was in 1958 !!
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Old 29th July 2009, 15:18   #111
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Hi
1).well i have marked the trims in the pictures provided which are missing and are required in red colour.
2).Apart from that a dynamo is missing which i have a new one in stock of a studebaker.
3).I would one piece break drum for starters.
4).Piston rings set and mayb new pistons as well.

The trims could be new or used as per availability.These are the basics required as per now the list would increase as the work progresses.

Thank you.
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Old 30th July 2009, 11:23   #112
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Its not gonna be easy to get parts in a piece meal haphazard manner. You will need to sit and make a comprehensive list of all parts required and then shop for the best prices etc.

I would suggest holding off on the trim items and concentrate on teh mechanicals first.

Regester yourself on the 57J website, download their parts manual and other interesting data they have and use this as reference.

They have a Stude Vendors website too. Check out whats available here.

Feel free to mail Frank on any clarifications you want or help on restoration. There a bunch of newsletters in PDF form also available on their website that will help you understand the car better and giver you authentic paint codes etc.

Do keep us posted on the developments.
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Old 30th July 2009, 14:59   #113
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Well the trims are the problem.I have found brand new pistons and rings which i'm going to buy.I have a set of new valves for this car.The break drum is also required.Yes i agree i need to go their and get every thing out and then make a list with the catalog.I will surely keep everyone post and take pictures as well.hankx for the help and support provided its really appriciated.
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Old 31st July 2009, 00:30   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Many people don't have good views about this forum but i would like to change their views.
Quote:
Never ever give up.
Cheers harit
Great. There are many who still will not have a great view about this forum of anywhere else where they are corrected. Most people i know like that got their con caught or didnt like it that there are certain ...no make that many members on this forum who know more than they do. You know what i mean. But im sure there are also a few that may have got the wrong impression, its all about staying long enough to find out.


Quote:
The support provided by all changed my view about this forum and am sure it will of others as well after seing each and ever discussion taken place.
Im glad. This is a fun place to stay. Every day i learn more here, trust me.

Last edited by V-16 : 31st July 2009 at 00:31.
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Old 31st July 2009, 08:30   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harit View Post
Now we know about Indian Hawks:
Golden Hawk Calcutta
Golden Hawk Pune
Red Hawk ( its colour, not name) in Mumbai.
Indrojit has to surf the net and scan in Hemmings to find trims. For my 1954 Packard it took me one and a half years to get a grill.
Never ever give up.

Cheers harit
Yes that is a good idea.But at the same time if anybody comes across any trims or the parts listed above please do let me know i will be more than happy to pick them up.In the profession of restoration we can never giove up because we are looking out for a perfect job so we keep on trying until we get the best out things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Great. There are many who still will not have a great view about this forum of anywhere else where they are corrected. Most people i know like that got their con caught or didnt like it that there are certain ...no make that many members on this forum who know more than they do. You know what i mean. But im sure there are also a few that may have got the wrong impression, its all about staying long enough to find out.




Im glad. This is a fun place to stay. Every day i learn more here, trust me.
Well i would say its not about correcting them its the way we correct them.One thing we need to understand is that every person on this forum has a passion for cars weather vintage/classic or latest.We should try to think of a way in which we could conway the message without hurting the feelings or being too rude or arrogent.Every person deserves respect and we shouldn't compromise that.

This is the only place perhaps you can share as much as you know and don't get looked down apon.We need to be open to criticism in a positive manner and not to be put down.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:25   #116
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Good show, Indrojit. I think everyone is happy that we do have a '56 Stude Golden Hawk here after all. Hope you have the other id (VIN, etc.) plates on the car intact still. Would also help in getting the right parts besides registering your exact car with the model's chapter(s). Congratulations again.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 13:48   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
Good show, Indrojit. I think everyone is happy that we do have a '56 Stude Golden Hawk here after all. Hope you have the other id (VIN, etc.) plates on the car intact still. Would also help in getting the right parts besides registering your exact car with the model's chapter(s). Congratulations again.

Thank you prabal.I don't think the other ID (VIN,etc)are still on the car.We have started opening the engine in stages.We have opened the tapid heads, timing chain,tapids,manifolds etc.Now the next step is to open the pistons.Before we do that i want to get new pistons and piston rings for the engine which i have located and am planning to buy them by the end of this month.And after that we will re-bore the engine.
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Old 16th August 2009, 23:31   #118
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Hi i just found some pics of restoration of the 1952 Bentley Mark VI which has been posted already before on this thread.This car was dismanteled to the last bit and then the engine was done and then a road test of this car was done of the chassis only without the body as we do to all the cars we work on.Leaving the cars which don't have a chassis.
Looking forward to feedbacks.
Attached Thumbnails
Calcutta-Restorer/Collectors-Bumpu Sircar-dscf1561.jpg  

Calcutta-Restorer/Collectors-Bumpu Sircar-dscf1562.jpg  

Calcutta-Restorer/Collectors-Bumpu Sircar-dscf1564.jpg  

Calcutta-Restorer/Collectors-Bumpu Sircar-dscf1565.jpg  

Calcutta-Restorer/Collectors-Bumpu Sircar-dscf1582.jpg  

Calcutta-Restorer/Collectors-Bumpu Sircar-dscf1583.jpg  

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Old 2nd September 2009, 14:29   #119
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amazing cars especially the cherry merc , very nice job done on jaguar,keep it up to keep the beauties alive
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Old 4th September 2009, 22:55   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inderpalgill View Post
amazing cars especially the cherry merc , very nice job done on jaguar,keep it up to keep the beauties alive


Thank you inder pal ji.The merc has been there since my father was 10 years old and will always be with us.Have recently imported the tyres from USA and will be starting work tiowards november.
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