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Old 12th May 2010, 17:46   #211
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[quote=wasif;1881927]The "cascade effect" is in theory again as at what price the cars actually sell for is nowhere near what the sellers have been asking for to start with.

It all comes down to how badly a seller and buyer want said car !

Quote KPS

"As much as I would agree that it is the sellers absolute right to quote the a price and it is for the buyer to decide whether he wants to pay for it or not"

This is what I have been saying all along and I nowwhen someone else says it becomes "brilliant" !![/quote]

wasif,
you are taking the first part from what KPS said just to justify what you have been saying
Please read the next line of KPS
"" there is a serious cascading effect. The prices of unrestored/restorable cars are shooting up like crazy. If a Morris Minor is quoting @ 4.75L then a seller of an unrestored minor will start quoting for 2+ which not a desirable trend. I have seen unbelievable prices been quote for junk pieces on the premise that the completed car is quoted at x+ price.""
This is what I have also been trying to say when you start demanding absurd astronomical prices for marques which are not worth it PUBLICLY,it becomes the benchmark for other similar cars in worser conditions
Nobody will know what the maximum offer has been got for an unsold car ,but the ridiculous seller quote will be there for others to demand similar prices

Last edited by ajay99 : 12th May 2010 at 17:57.
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Old 12th May 2010, 18:09   #212
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What everyone has been saying all along is any price the seller quotes is the right price. No one should ask questions.

We are questioning that attitude.

And the whole post is brilliant not the first few words. Talk about being selective.
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Old 12th May 2010, 18:34   #213
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
What everyone has been saying all along is any price the seller quotes is the right price. No one should ask questions.

We are questioning that attitude.

And the whole post is brilliant not the first few words. Talk about being selective.
the opinion of some people in this forum is as if the seller is some HOLY COW who should be treated in a special manner.
after all these sellers(except a select few) were all once buyers and one should see the way they behave when they don the hat of a ''buyer""
I know of a particular gent who was interested in buying a WOODY LANDMASTER traveller which has been in the Classics of trivandrum thread.the car is in concourse condition with all documentation and the owner had no idea of selling it.but since this guy(restorer/enthusiast) showed interest he agreed to part with it if he gets a fair price for it(2.75lakhs) because he had spent a lot of money on restoration.
this gentleman (buyer) said that it is overpriced by 1-1.5 lakhs!!
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Old 12th May 2010, 18:36   #214
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
What everyone has been saying all along is any price the seller quotes is the right price. No one should ask questions.

We are questioning that attitude.

And the whole post is brilliant not the first few words. Talk about being selective.

Please read my posts on this. Nowhere have I said that no one should ask questions.

I have always maintained that seller has the right to ask for whatever he wants and the buyer has the right to make his best offer and to haggle with the. This is how a deal is usually struck.

Ajay.

You agree that the owners are within their rights to ask for whatever they feel like, however absurd it may be. Right ?

Cascade effect or not will these owners ever realise that absurd price ?

The price they will get is what a buyer feels the car is worth. If the seller doesn't agree then there is no sale which is usually the case until the owner gets to a more reasonable price.

How many cars are you aware of that sold exactly for what the owner wanted ?

This is what I have been saying time and again. And that fact that you guys keep on and on that the price is Absurd. We all know the price is absurd, do you think we don't know this ? Its is how the buyer negotiates with the seller that matters.

So it these sellers want to quote a ridiculas price then what is the harm in it. Will the buyers actually pay that price ?

Also you can be a bit more precise and post names. I have NEVER said that the seller is a 'HOLY COW" all I ever sid was that he has the right to ask for whatever price he wasnts, which as it turns out the other "reformers" are also now admitting.

Last edited by wasif : 12th May 2010 at 18:39.
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Old 12th May 2010, 20:42   #215
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Please read my posts on this. Nowhere have I said that no one should ask questions.

I have always maintained that seller has the right to ask for whatever he wants and the buyer has the right to make his best offer and to haggle with the. This is how a deal is usually struck.

Ajay.

You agree that the owners are within their rights to ask for whatever they feel like, however absurd it may be. Right ?

Cascade effect or not will these owners ever realise that absurd price ?

The price they will get is what a buyer feels the car is worth. If the seller doesn't agree then there is no sale which is usually the case until the owner gets to a more reasonable price.

How many cars are you aware of that sold exactly for what the owner wanted ?

This is what I have been saying time and again. And that fact that you guys keep on and on that the price is Absurd. We all know the price is absurd, do you think we don't know this ? Its is how the buyer negotiates with the seller that matters.

So it these sellers want to quote a ridiculas price then what is the harm in it. Will the buyers actually pay that price ?

Also you can be a bit more precise and post names. I have NEVER said that the seller is a 'HOLY COW" all I ever sid was that he has the right to ask for whatever price he wasnts, which as it turns out the other "reformers" are also now admitting.

I have never said that I agree with ""owners can ask ridiculous prices""
My point is if you own a car and you dont intend to sell it and someone approaches you to part with it, you may quote any price for it (as you dont intend to sell.this remains between you and the other guy.

But when you advertise with intent to sell you should not ask ridiculous and absurd values because it will influence the market as a whole as KPS rightly pointed out
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Old 12th May 2010, 20:49   #216
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How can a ridiculous price "influence" the market.
will anyone pay that price ?

It is just speculation on the part of the owner.

Also since India is a democracy and people have the freedom to do as they choose within teh framework of the law there is no way you can stop or even insist owners can't ask for whatever they like.
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Old 13th May 2010, 09:25   #217
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Hello All ,

KPS thanks for your kind comments , any further comments here would be counter productive , the battle lines are too rigidly drawn.



Regards
Chauhan
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Old 13th May 2010, 09:47   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
I have never said that I agree with ""owners can ask ridiculous prices""
My point is if you own a car and you dont intend to sell it and someone approaches you to part with it, you may quote any price for it (as you dont intend to sell.this remains between you and the other guy.

But when you advertise with intent to sell you should not ask ridiculous and absurd values because it will influence the market as a whole as KPS rightly pointed out
There are 2 ways of looking at things.

1) The seller is not interested in selling, to ward off buyers and to create a negative flux towards his cars. The people would know its high price and stay away without bothering the seller further. This is the case with me. I've been approached many a times by many buyers for my cars, I tried telling them, "Its not for Sale" but offers kept repeating. Over the past 3 years, i've started quoting ridiculous prices for my cars. Presently i've succeeded in evading buyers.

2) Take a simple example of a VW Beetle, untill less than 2 years, the prices for an GOOD running Beetle across the country never exceeded 1.50 - 2 lacs.. But today, even a scrap Bug costs more than that. And many across the country hold Bangalore responsible for the pricing. Because it was here from where the HIGH PRICE selling for Bugs started and the market value for a Bug increased. There are many, mostly dealers,who has enjoyed the joys of this present market conditions, and still some of them
1) Expecting 15 lacs for a Super Bug purchased at 3.40 lacs a year ago.
2) Other expecting 8 lacs for a 1303 without papers.
3) Some others expecting 6 lacs for ordinary 1300's

I really dont understand the fluctuations. Is there any pre-fixed valuation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
How can a ridiculous price "influence" the market.
will anyone pay that price ?

It is just speculation on the part of the owner.

Also since India is a democracy and people have the freedom to do as they choose within teh framework of the law there is no way you can stop or even insist owners can't ask for whatever they like.
Sir, many such cars are brought by people in todays world.

Think, you are desperately looking for a particular car, and you come across few of them for sale, the conditions are such that, the prices are quoted uniformally across the country. What are your options. You either live your dream, pay the price, and buy the car . OR bury your dream and buy a scale model.

What would you choose?

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 13th May 2010 at 09:49.
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:09   #219
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It is how badly the buyer wants to fulfill his dream that matters and determins how much he ends up actually paying for the car.

There have been cars that didn't sell for 10 to 12 years because the price the owners wanted were crazy. Finally the owners accepted what was offered to them by one of the last prospective buyers because there ws no way they could get the price they wanted.

How many buyers are there today Pavan who will pay the 15 lacs that is asked for the Super Beatle you spoke of. Will that car ever sell for anyting close to this price ? So how can this absurd expected price become the norm

What sellers ask for is always academic its what the buyers want to pay that rules the game in the end.

Tell me something. How do you propose to influence prospective sellers to ask for a reasonable price. is there some manner in which this can be achieved ?

Regarding your question at the end of your post. I would not bury my dream but I would widen and modify my search and will definitely find something that is a compromise ....no scale models please

Last edited by wasif : 13th May 2010 at 10:11.
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:52   #220
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We all of us have given valid points and all favor towards genuine enthusiast and the woes associated. But is it going to change, how many of the actual traders are going to read this and even if they read this are their prices going to be justifiable after that, nope I don't think so.

And then there are people who sell parts and their way of business is just like that.

Are we able to do something no, our tribe is handfull of 10-15 people, probably we will not trade, but others?

And as Pawan has given examples of few Beetles, I have many more like that, but try to educate the seller, you are in trouble.
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Old 13th May 2010, 11:12   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Coming back to this thread as we recently and quite happily made a very clean deal for my friend's classic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Please read my posts on this. Nowhere have I said that no one should ask questions.

I have always maintained that seller has the right to ask for whatever he wants and the buyer has the right to make his best offer and to haggle with the. This is how a deal is usually struck.
I have quoted an old post of mine above. Where I talked about transparency while dealing with a car sale.

I agree to the point that a seller can ask the sky for it, but then he should justify it to the buyer.

And the example about quoting ridiculous prices to keep away buyers is so absurd. Is it so difficult to say "NO"?

I had so many coming over to ask for the VW Bus, each day. All I said was a polite no.

Instead of quoting some astronomical figure for it. I find that totally uncalled for. The cascading effect is very much there, however many here dont want to agree.

Why do you think the VW prices are way out of reach of an enthusiast now? When the price I got for the VW Bus was quoted to some who were interested in it. They were shocked and some even replied I could have paid you 5 times that amount. My answer mostly would be I dont do this for a living.
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Old 13th May 2010, 11:34   #222
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Spitfire.

I understand what you are saying but tell me how can this logic be made to apply to sellers.

Try how as we might they will never quote reasonable rates, that is how they are. Nothing will chnage this position.

I hav no idea what prices are good for VW's these days. I was just looking at an example from Pavan.

I agree with Manish on this totally.

My point all along has been that it is pointless to lament about the fact that sellers have unreasonable expectations. Instead we need to work out ways to tackle this and bring them down to a reasonable level.
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Old 13th May 2010, 11:59   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
I understand what you are saying but tell me how can this logic be made to apply to sellers.
Thats good to hear. I thought I was running a lost cause.

Quote:
Try how as we might they will never quote reasonable rates, that is how they are. Nothing will chnage this position.
We can start by acknowledging the right prices and the unreasonable.

Your line of thought that a seller's price is the right price is seen as an agreement towards the price.

I agree the seller has all the right to quote whatever he thinks but then whats the point.

Also agree the final price would be much lesser. But whether thats uniform or not is lost as the initial price is all that gets noticed.

The other thing we can do is stop this quoting of unreasonable, sky high prices when there is no intention to sell.

This no interntion to sell from a owner is a very gray area. I know of atleat 2 instances where the owner was sure he didnt want to sell because of love, passion etc. But when someone matched that price, they have parted with the vehicle. What happens to all the passion and love?

What they are invariably doing is creating the cascading effect that KPS mentioned.

Another thing to note is today in India prices of vintage cars are driven by second hand car dealers or hoarders, they are no authority on these cars and are only here to do business. You should be aware what prices they quote.

A genuine enthusiast will stay away from such sellers.

Abroad there are genuine folks who are authority on such cars. Their prices however high they may be wont be called unreasonable. I am sure you know why.

Quote:
I agree with Manish on this totally.
I dont really agree to this. Lets be honest about ourselves. Let the enthusiast get a better deal then the second hand car dealer.

If everyone is looking at it only as a business I dont have a point anyways.

Quote:
My point all along has been that it is pointless to lament about the fact that sellers have unreasonable expectations.
Then why not say it in so many words. Its understood that we sitting here typing away to glory are not going to change things in a hurry but can we start?

Quote:
Instead we need to work out ways to tackle this and bring them down to a reasonable level.
The whole intention of this thread is exactly that

Last edited by Spitfire : 13th May 2010 at 12:00.
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Old 28th May 2010, 13:43   #224
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hey guys, This is CD

Need your help people !!!

I have been offered this 1971 Ford Capri RHD, mk-1, 1.6L australian make in running condition
The car is in good condition with all the relevant papers
Could someone advise what could be a good price to go for it

I know its difficult without any supporting pictures but the problem is that the i dont have the sellers permission to use the pics

random pics of the vehicle off the net are in the below thread
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ri-mk-1-a.html

appreciate if someone can help

thanks
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Old 28th May 2010, 15:07   #225
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Originally Posted by cmdalvi View Post
hey guys, This is CD

Need your help people !!!

I have been offered this 1971 Ford Capri RHD, mk-1, 1.6L australian make in running condition
The car is in good condition with all the relevant papers
Could someone advise what could be a good price to go for it

I know its difficult without any supporting pictures but the problem is that the i dont have the sellers permission to use the pics

random pics of the vehicle off the net are in the below thread
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ri-mk-1-a.html

appreciate if someone can help

thanks
first of all you have not mentioned the asking price and the condition,originality of the car etc.
without that one cannot say anything abt values.
I can give one info which may be of help.
a single owner 2 door 1966fordtannus 17m in very good condition has remained unsold eventhough the owner quoted 1.5lakhs.
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