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Old 19th June 2010, 13:29   #271
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Thats how valuation goes, me too and many of my friends would offer a good price for a vehicle with a history, and some background insight about the car. , We have'nt even seen the said Bus so far, last what i remember is this Bus stuck somewhere in transit before landing in Mumbai and had seen engine and its parts in pieces, also have taken photos, need to dig out.
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Originally Posted by the mole View Post
Well I dont think I am especially on this thread, valuation is all that it is about is'nt it? Besides which 67bug is not making any tall claims, he is a well respected and credible enthusiast and collector in Mumbai. I have seen the van as it is today lets not discredit that.
Mole-ji, Pawan was not refering to you being off-topic. He was refering to his own post being offtopic, "bus stuck in transit". Right Pawan?

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Originally Posted by 67Bug View Post
As a fellow enthusiast it is important for me to caution you and that is all what i am trying to do mate !! Sometimes you need to dig deeper than make claims of "Love at first sight"...the Bus does not have papers, was bought at a scrap down price (I know the price but not ethical for me to mention it in a public forum), most parts in it are non-original and cheap locally made ones especially the more important electric ones. Which is the reason it caught fire sometime back. Corners have been cut to get it up and running with the sole idea to dispose it off to some gullible kid. My job was to caution and make buyers beaware.
But you should always dig deeper for any purchase! How do you ensure that you get no lemon? And digging deeper means that if your knowledge is limited, take an expert with you, who can help you dig.
Now Pawans bus rstoration has been well documented, so someone has confidence in his bus and offers a premium. And why not? Pawan would also want to be rewarded. And the buyer does not want to go through the restoration pain. If Pawan were to sell, the reward is monetary, he can go and do another project. If he does not sell, he has the knowledge and self satisfaction that his work has been appreciated, and he can put a monetary value to it. It may seem notional, but when you can tell, for example, to close family members that you are creating value, they may change their opinion about your wasting money and time. And instead of having to check your accound for the balance, you can actually drive and enjoy your wealth on the road. But ensure you stay insured.

Cheers harit
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Old 19th June 2010, 17:54   #272
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Originally Posted by 67Bug View Post
As a fellow enthusiast it is important for me to caution you and that is all what i am trying to do mate !! Sometimes you need to dig deeper than make claims of "Love at first sight"...the Bus does not have papers, was bought at a scrap down price (I know the price but not ethical for me to mention it in a public forum), most parts in it are non-original and cheap locally made ones especially the more important electric ones. Which is the reason it caught fire sometime back. Corners have been cut to get it up and running with the sole idea to dispose it off to some gullible kid. My job was to caution and make buyers beaware.
My Bus is a Single owner Bus from Hubli, stock and run only 32K kms and was in one piece before i started restoration.

Last edited by v12 : 19th June 2010 at 20:35. Reason: Removing personal remarks.
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Old 19th June 2010, 20:22   #273
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Guys, lets stick to the topic here (which in on valuation). Pavan has clearly mentioned that his VW bus is not on sale and the papers are in place.

Lets move on.
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Old 20th June 2010, 09:27   #274
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Default morris minor

www.team-bhp.com/forum/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/4123

saw this ad first one year ago when the seller was asking a high price. an year down the line he seems to have realised the reality and has reduced the price by a good sum
Now the price is within striking distance of many a morris minor enthusiast
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Old 20th June 2010, 11:18   #275
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
It may seem notional, but when you can tell, for example, to close family members that you are creating value, they may change their opinion about your wasting money and time. And instead of having to check your accound for the balance, you can actually drive and enjoy your wealth on the road. But ensure you stay insured.

Cheers harit
Well Harit I have read this out to my wife and all I got is a scowl on her face.

In anycase lets move away from Pawan's bus and 67 bug's buses for a while. IMHO a price benchmark is set when the car has changed hands in a deal that is transparent for instance like in an auction. We have no such benchmarks in India. What was the last price that you can confidently state that a van was sold for! and I dont mean the advertised price, the price that it actually sold for! Who knows right? Its normally always a secret between the seller and the buyer! I have been offered a lot of things for instance for my Fiat (I dont even want to sell it). But I think if i were to actually sell it, it would not even get me half of these offered prices.

I know there is a satisfaction in the fact that we hold things of great value and we sleep peacefully in the night with the thought that our assets are appreciating in our garages (ironically my garage space in Mumbai costs more than any of my cars and probably appreciating faster) but hey finally it always boils down to one thing when you go out to sell your classic car " Show me the money"
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Old 20th June 2010, 11:24   #276
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Originally Posted by the mole View Post
Well Harit I have read this out to my wife and all I got is a scowl on her face.

In anycase lets move away from Pawan's bus and 67 bug's buses for a while. IMHO a price benchmark is set when the car has changed hands in a deal that is transparent for instance like in an auction. We have no such benchmarks in India. What was the last price that you can confidently state that a van was sold for! and I dont mean the advertised price, the price that it actually sold for! Who knows right? Its normally always a secret between the seller and the buyer! I have been offered a lot of things for instance for my Fiat (I dont even want to sell it). But I think if i were to actually sell it, it would not even get me half of these offered prices.

I know there is a satisfaction in the fact that we hold things of great value and we sleep peacefully in the night with the thought that our assets are appreciating in our garages (ironically my garage space in Mumbai costs more than any of my cars and probably appreciating faster) but hey finally it always boils down to one thing when you go out to sell your classic car " Show me the money"
the mole,
well said Sir,
you have summed up the ground reality in a few words
thanks
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Old 20th June 2010, 13:09   #277
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Saw some old car for sale ads in the teambhp classifieds:
Austin 8 1946 Rs 350000
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Morris 8 Series E 2 door 1947 Rs 375000
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Vauxhall Velox 6 cyl 1950 Rs 180,000 (not running condition)
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Fiat 1100 Elegant Dukkar centre light 1957 Rs 180000
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Standard Pennant 1960 Rs 180,000[/FONT]
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Ambassador 1961 Rs 150,000
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Fiat Super Select 1963 Rs 65000 Padmini engine
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Fiat Super Select 1964 Rs 225,000
Team-BHP Classifieds - Sedans - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
Believe that the old car asking prices are skyrocketing and indications are that it further will. However, there is some avoidable fat in many of these above quoted prices. The increase has been the most preceptible during the past one decade.
In 1991, while in Amravati (Mah) (famous for Model A Ford taxis till the early 1980's) exactly in Paratwada town, I saw a Model A Ford which was in running condition though ravaged with odd spares and accessories parked near a house.The car had the original engine and meters though. I asked the owner how much he expected.He said Rs 60 K but I was again reluctant to spend more than Rs 40K as I had spent much on acquiring my Maruti 800.

In 1997 I went to buy a 1940 Morris 8 that had the mechanicals, monograms, meters,grille, lights etc which were original but the paint job and its shabby looks made me retract.Guess the price he was asking: Rs 30000/-. I said Rs 25 K and no more and went away.
Another Concours' condition restored black Morris 8 (1947) was offered for Rs 40 K but I said no.

Again in 1997 one chap had an original Austin 8 (12 V electricals) among his many cars.He was asking Rs 25K. And guess what: he also had an original Austin 10 of 1938 vintage for which he was asking Rs 40K.
I was just reluctant to buy one then.However have no regrets at all.Or else, my beauty the dame of a Landmaster would have not come in 2003.Thats because I stick to my cars and two wheelers like a leech and never like to sell any.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 20th June 2010 at 13:14.
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Old 20th June 2010, 16:59   #278
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Originally Posted by the mole View Post
Well Harit I have read this out to my wife and all I got is a scowl on her face.

In any case lets move away from Pawan's bus and 67 bug's buses for a while. IMHO a price benchmark is set when the car has changed hands in a deal that is transparent for instance like in an auction. We have no such benchmarks in India. What was the last price that you can confidently state that a van was sold for! and I dont mean the advertised price, the price that it actually sold for! Who knows right? Its normally always a secret between the seller and the buyer! I have been offered a lot of things for instance for my Fiat (I dont even want to sell it). But I think if i were to actually sell it, it would not even get me half of these offered prices.

I know there is a satisfaction in the fact that we hold things of great value and we sleep peacefully in the night with the thought that our assets are appreciating in our garages (ironically my garage space in Mumbai costs more than any of my cars and probably appreciating faster) but hey finally it always boils down to one thing when you go out to sell your classic car " Show me the money"
Apparently that was a mild reaction. Lucky you! Well, I also hear similar arguments when "they" want to buy jewlery.

But I have seen many cases where family members do change their attitude from disgust to atleast some tolerance when some explanation with a money angle is offered.

About buyers and sellers, I am not getting your drift. Firstly, prices bought or sold do not need to be transparant. Why and for whom? Have you not bought cars? So you yourself have shown the money to the seller. Just go and buy another car, and you will see at what level your transaction takes place. An undeniable fact remains that prices are going up. And cars were always overpriced. And you, the buyer have to play your game. And the seller his. A forum discussion will rarely get you a car. You have to deal with sellers directly, negotiate directly. Again repeating myself from an earlier discussion, I cannot tell a seller that he is overpriced because a forum says so. If you want to have a car badly, you have to pay a ridiculous amount sometimes. And sellers drop their prices when the need to sell becomes pressing. Ridiculous is what I was told on my face about my purchase price of my Lancia. Well, I have not regretted, many have seen where it has gone to. I have also left cars which I felt were overpriced, knowing todays situation I have made some mistakes. But no regrets, money is always limited.
Today for example, if anyone has a GENUINE muscle car for sale, in India, he can ask for the moon. And he will get it. Because muscle cars are not available, we even try to create them.

And I am not in this for the value in the garage to sleep peacefully at night. It is a passionate hobby. Value appreciation is a by the way thing for me, but it cannot be denied that it is happening.
And don't ever believe that cars have not sold for ridiculous amounts of money.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 20th June 2010 at 17:03.
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Old 21st June 2010, 00:24   #279
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Hello Sirs ,

This thread seems to be a battle of will / wits between people who would like to reform and standardize the Indian vintage market to the norms they understand -from its present standard of controlled anarchy and processes better understood by the older generation who can sit down and have a cup of tea with the dealer.

I picked up the Morris van and the Singer for Rs 80,000 / actually the deal was struck at 70,000 but I agreed to pay the 10,000 extra pandering to dealers sycophancy and for better options on future deals.


Suggest, for all persons desirous of vintage car ownership - do things the Indian way - give up cynicism & arrogance in favour of discussion and bargaining.

Regards
Chauhan
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Old 21st June 2010, 09:15   #280
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Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
www.team-bhp.com/forum/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/4123

saw this ad first one year ago when the seller was asking a high price. an year down the line he seems to have realised the reality and has reduced the price by a good sum
Now the price is within striking distance of many a morris minor enthusiast
What is the price he is currently quoting? Your link is to the advt. from last year with the price quoted then.
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:17   #281
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Originally Posted by vintageman View Post
Hello Sirs ,

This thread seems to be a battle of will / wits between people who would like to reform and standardize the Indian vintage market to the norms they understand -from its present standard of controlled anarchy and processes better understood by the older generation who can sit down and have a cup of tea with the dealer.

I picked up the Morris van and the Singer for Rs 80,000 / actually the deal was struck at 70,000 but I agreed to pay the 10,000 extra pandering to dealers sycophancy and for better options on future deals.


Suggest, for all persons desirous of vintage car ownership - do things the Indian way - give up cynicism & arrogance in favour of discussion and bargaining.

Regards
Chauhan

Great buys Vintageman. That singer is gonna be a real stunner when ready, not many are around today.

I totally agree with your statments on the valuation debate. Absolutely a futile exercise. No amount for sane level headed discussion will ever change the situation that exists in the India market.
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:36   #282
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Originally Posted by vintageman View Post
Suggest, for all persons desirous of vintage car ownership - do things the Indian way - give up cynicism & arrogance in favour of discussion and bargaining.
As always, well said

Do tell us a bit more about the Morris, how much of the body is original and how much could have been later modified, if at all. Do any more survive in India? Good luck with the resto and do keep us posted.

A similar Singer in pretty original condition is in Bombay with a TBHPian.
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Old 21st June 2010, 14:54   #283
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Originally Posted by vintageman View Post
I picked up the Morris van and the Singer for Rs 80,000 / actually the deal was struck at 70,000 but I agreed to pay the 10,000 extra pandering to dealers sycophancy and for better options on future deals.
Congratulations Mr Chauhan, you have picked up the cars for the right price. A lot of dealers from Mumbai were quoting some ridiculous prices for the two. In anycase, about two years ago a similar car (Singer SM 1500) came to Mumbai from Rajasthan and has been picked up by a fellow Bhpian. The car though in need of restoration was a very original running car, with original upholstery. As I was offered the car before the current owner, i did take quite a few shots of the interior and exterior which you may find helpful in your restoration. Do let me know should you need them. Again all the best with your restoration. rgds
Amol
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Old 22nd June 2010, 00:10   #284
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As always, well said

Do tell us a bit more about the Morris, how much of the body is original and how much could have been later modified, if at all. Do any more survive in India? Good luck with the resto and do keep us posted.

A similar Singer in pretty original condition is in Bombay with a TBHPian.
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Congratulations Mr Chauhan, you have picked up the cars for the right price. A lot of dealers from Mumbai were quoting some ridiculous prices for the two. In anycase, about two years ago a similar car (Singer SM 1500) came to Mumbai from Rajasthan and has been picked up by a fellow Bhpian. The car though in need of restoration was a very original running car, with original upholstery. As I was offered the car before the current owner, i did take quite a few shots of the interior and exterior which you may find helpful in your restoration. Do let me know should you need them. Again all the best with your restoration. rgds
Amol
Well, I got that Singer after I saw a picture on Amol's cell during a Fiat club get together at Mocambo. He was not buying, and had no problems with me going ahead. I bought it for its sheer ugliness. Only the original Maruti was uglier.
Later it turned out that the seller was my college time friend's school friend, both lived in south Mumbai, one went to Andheri east, the other to Andheri west. Deal was easy, and books wre intact. Registration number was "2".
The cars Vintageman bought were lying in Gujrat. They were offered for 2L. The seller came down to 1L. We offered him 25K for the Morris only, just for fun. These cars I believe were somewhere in Jamnagar/Rajkot, I forget which. Glad the deal went through the correct way, negotiation with the seller and no making fun of the seller here.
Amol, please post pictures for Vintageman to check, I cannot find my pics. And Vintageman, if you need to see my car for some reference, you are most welcome to visit Mumbai. Just bring some time with you.

Cheers harit
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Old 22nd June 2010, 21:19   #285
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hi harit I dont have great pictures as i took them from my cell phone, but I am sure they are a good guide for Mr Chauhan as it is extremely difficult to find any reference for this car on the internet.
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