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Old 28th September 2009, 19:12   #811
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Wow what a Packard. Just look at all those hunting lamps. Fabulous picture !!!

It appears to be a 1930 Packard 740 Phaeton. The person looks a lot like Prince Azamjah. Wow

The only other person I can think of is Prince Hamidullah of Bhopal, (remember his hunting lamps Bentley?). But I think this is Azamjah
Must be Ajamjah as its a pic from Hyderabad.

It Packard has presence. Those rims look like they are plated or polished so does the bonnet sides like on a Rolls.

Do check with your connections on who this might be and what happened to the car. Do you think its a V12 ?
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Old 28th September 2009, 19:55   #812
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I crossed checked it with even the Italian manuals. Couldn't find any reference of tubeless tyres there either.
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Originally Posted by sudharma View Post
Tubeless Tyres were around even in the 60's but have not seen them used as Tubeless Tyres in the strict sense. They were available for imported cars which had tubless tyres. I understand that the rims of our cars were not designed for tubeless tyres. Even in the imported cars, when the tyres get punctured, the filling necks were removed and a standard tube is inserted straight away to be on the safer side.

My 1967 Herald had only normal cross ply tyres.
I have returned from Baroda just a couple of hours back, especially to meet the first owner of my 1955 Fiat (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-1...alda-13-a.html)

She tells me very very clearly that her car was indeed fitted with tubeless tyres. They were not touched for 5 years, and when opened for a service many nails were discovered in them, but the tyres had not lost air. She then added tubes to the same tyres and used them for 2 further years.

Mission accomplished!
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Old 29th September 2009, 10:01   #813
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Must be Ajamjah as its a pic from Hyderabad.

It Packard has presence. Those rims look like they are plated or polished so does the bonnet sides like on a Rolls.

Do check with your connections on who this might be and what happened to the car. Do you think its a V12 ?
Wasif if the picture's from Hyderabad then I am pretty sure its Azamjah. I am just dazed as to the kind of cars Azamjah had here in that short span of time during the 30's. I can very well imagine Osman Ali Khan's outrage at his son's extravagant expenditure. No wonder he passed him up for the throne.

That Packard is awesome. Unfortunately Packard records were burnt in a fire otherwise details of this car would have surfaced in books on Packards. The car is a 740 Custom Eight Phaeton, which were the luxury Packards, later also known as the Super Eight from 1933 upto 1936 with the same engine. These were big 384 cu inch engines, straight eights, a masterpiece of a motor. The 740's rode on a massive 140 1/2 inch wheelbase. There's one other model up called the 745 Deluxe Eight which rode on a even longer wheelbase of 145 1/2 inches and the fenders had a longer sweep to the foot boards.

The V12 was discontinued from 1924 until 1931, reappearing as the Twin Six again in 1932 and later called the Packard Twelve in 1933. The Twelves continued till 1939

As to what would have happened to this car, well I can quite imagine Azamjah getting bored with it in a year or two. My father who was born in 1929 never recalls seeing any of these cars on the road meaning they were not in use post 1935 latest. Very few people seem to remember these cars. Even the Duesenbergs would have left early or in all probability these cars may have been garaged for years never being taken out till someone bought them and trucked them out. I have a feeling for a brief period Osman Ali Khan indulged both his sons post their marriages, only to tighten up in a few years. But that short span of extravagant spending saw some of the world's most awesome automotive machinery come into Hyderabad.

Unfortunately I never managed to gather more light on their father's cars when I met Mukkaramjah or Mufakhamjah last. I most certainly will ask if I get a chance to meet them again. They were both born post 1933 so if the cars had left they wouldn't know. I do vaguely recall someone mentioning Bella Vista used to have many cars in garages up until independence.

Last edited by DKG : 29th September 2009 at 10:04.
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Old 29th September 2009, 18:15   #814
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An old image of "the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama walking across the border into India" taken by pioneer photojournalist Homai Vyarawalla.

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Homai Vyarawalla - fravahr.org

In the corner a Jeep station wagon is visible, bearing registration SKM 4, probably Sikkim.
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Old 29th September 2009, 18:26   #815
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Can't see his Austin Healey which was said to be his favourite for doing donuts etc. walking in to india ......
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Old 29th September 2009, 19:12   #816
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What a lovely thread! Quite enjoy the pictures and stories that transport us back in time. Coming to the politics of car manufacturing, while the machinations of the big two, Hindustan and Fiat, in keeping others out is well known, it is not only Standard that were shortchanged. Madras was the headquarters of another old and venerated company, Simpsons, which over time, became a conglomeration of several companies, including Addisons and Stanes. Addisons made a brief foray into car assembly, by importing 3000 odd very early Morris Minors during 1950. This was done with a view to graduating into manufacture. However, the Birlas were able to influence the government to refuse the licence to Addisons and so their adventure began and ended with the Morris Minor. Some pressure was also put on Austin-Morris and so, the Morris Minor was eventually manufactured by Hindusthan Motors as the baby Hindusthan. I own one of the Addisons assembled lowlight Morris Minors, which was registered in 1950. The inside of the engine bay has a small plate, which I shall photograph and post. I obtained these details from a book borrowed from the British Council Library that I read a long while ago, on the history of the Simpsons group, which was published to commemorate their centenary. As for Addisons, they went into paints and are now into machine tools, I think. They had a lovely Art Deco office in Bangalore just next to India Garage on St. Marks Road, which is now the showroom for the Skoda. Luckily, they have preserved the facade.
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Old 29th September 2009, 19:18   #817
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Did it ever occur to us that these old cars also met with accidents? Have a look at this one. Ford 1947/48 or so, one pic from a series probably taken by the owner or an insurance agent. It appears that the car had rolled. Maybe the front wheelcap is still lying over there.

Drive carefully!!

Cheers harit
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Last edited by harit : 29th September 2009 at 19:20.
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Old 29th September 2009, 19:32   #818
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Originally Posted by tonrag View Post
Simpsons, which over time, became a conglomeration of several companies, including Addisons and Stanes. Addisons made a brief foray into car assembly, by importing 3000 odd very early Morris Minors during 1950. This was done with a view to graduating into manufacture. However, the Birlas were able to influence the government to refuse the licence to Addisons and so their adventure began and ended with the Morris Minor. Some pressure was also put on Austin-Morris and so, the Morris Minor was eventually manufactured by Hindusthan Motors as the baby Hindusthan. I own one of the Addisons assembled lowlight Morris Minors, which was registered in 1950. The inside of the engine bay has a small plate, which I shall photograph and post.

Austin A4Os were also assembled in Madras by a company called Ashok Motors well, well before they became Ashok Leyland. This was is the late 40s or maybe just at the start of the 50s. I have the exact dates somewhere in my records. And of course Leyland also set up shop later with Ashok Motors by which time the Austin saga was buried and done with.

And Simpsons, or were they called Simsons, maybe Simpsons only, it rings truer (am confused now!) as part of the Amalgamations Group (if I'm not mistaken on this part) also started manufacturing a Ford truck in the early 80s. This was the most modern-looking of all the lorries on Indian roads then, but didn't find much custom due to lack of sufficient grunt in our conditions I'd gathered then from the usual chit-chat. Had a Full Forward Cab sort of a design from what I can vaguely recollect now.

Even the Royal Enfield Bullet was originally made by the Madras-based TTK Group, for decades - well before they sold out to Eicher. And incidentally, one of the daughters of the family, owned a pristine Addisons MM Lowlight and my father often drove it instead of her, in Delhi in the early 50s.
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Old 30th September 2009, 03:33   #819
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Wow what a Packard. Just look at all those hunting lamps. Fabulous picture !!!

It appears to be a 1930 Packard 740 Phaeton. The person looks a lot like Prince Azamjah. Wow

The only other person I can think of is Prince Hamidullah of Bhopal, (remember his hunting lamps Bentley?). But I think this is Azamjah
I am no Packard expert, but would the car below (posted in the Packards thread) be the same car ???

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Name:  Packard DLC-383 Frt.bmp
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Old 30th September 2009, 09:59   #820
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I am no Packard expert, but would the car below (posted in the Packards thread) be the same car ???
How interesting Prem. The first thought that came to my mind when I saw the picture was if this car in Delhi is the same car ! However quite a few Packards did come to India. Would be interesting if anyone remembers this Delhi Packard with hunting lamps.

From the picture you posted I can't tell if the air vent shown (between the front door and spare tyre) in the Azamjah Packard picture is present. The Delhi car does look to be a 740 like Azamjah's car

Last edited by DKG : 30th September 2009 at 10:03.
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Old 30th September 2009, 10:12   #821
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The Delhi car is almost identical to the "Shikar" car but look close and there are a few differences chief among them the scuttle vent. That too is a 740 going by the looks.

Were / are there any 745 's to be seen in India presently ?
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Old 30th September 2009, 13:41   #822
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Were / are there any 745 's to be seen in India presently ?
Beverly Rae Kimes's magnificent book on Packards mentiones a 745 Limo being ordered for the Maharani of Porbander in white (very unusual for the era) with interiors done in pink. Apparently the Maharani (an American lady I think) had a fondness for pink and had sent her bedroom slipper as a sample to Packard for the interior shade to be replicated. I have seen the interiors of the Porbander Palace and can attest to this preference as an entire section of the palace interiors are pink. Also the couple's preference for white is obvious as in 1931 the 840 Deluxe Eight Touring they ordered next was also in white, a picture of which I have seen and is posted somewhere here on TBHP. The 840 survives albeit in a dismantled state.

There's a possibility the 745 may not have survived. There is a 745 limo in Pakistan (restored in white), wonder if its the same car. I not aware of any 745 presently in India.
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Old 30th September 2009, 14:39   #823
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And Simpsons, or were they called Simsons, maybe Simpsons only, it rings truer (am confused now!) as part of the Amalgamations Group (if I'm not mistaken on this part) also started manufacturing a Ford truck in the early 80s. This was the most modern-looking of all the lorries on Indian roads then, but didn't find much custom due to lack of sufficient grunt in our conditions I'd gathered then from the usual chit-chat. Had a Full Forward Cab sort of a design from what I can vaguely recollect now.
Well, they are Simpsons to ring truer
I remember reading that they were a very old company, always based in Madras now Chennai and did a lot of automotive activities including coach building. So a visit to their website produced the following:
Quote from their website 'about us',
"You can call Simpsons a leader or the pioneer. You can call Simpsons an unquenchable technology inovator. Because it all began in 1840 when Simpson pioneered India's road transportation industry with railway coaches, motor cars, steam passenger busses and public service vehicles. And 110 years later, Simpsons ushered in the diesel era and became the first Indian Company to indigenously manufacture diesel engines for surface transport vehicles. Today Simpsons commands an enviable market presence, and is clearly one of the most versatile diesel engine manufacturer in this part of the globe."
The truck which they assembled in India was basically a Ford product, with the forward cab, but it was fitted with a Simpsons diesel engine. I believe it failed because it could not be supported, only a limited number of kits were imported, when these were used up, then what? Many could be seen abandoned along highways, and the cosmetic parts all patched up.

But there must be much more history on Simpsons available if one digs a bit deeper. Perhaps they were also car dealers? Any feedback from Chennai bhpians will be welcome.

Cheers harit
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Old 2nd October 2009, 23:09   #824
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Pics of Parsi families from Jhansi...found on interesting site Home Page
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Old 3rd October 2009, 18:57   #825
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Found this interesting picture on Indian Railways heritage site:
Looks like Hindustan-10 and American car.

PHA-45
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