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Old 3rd December 2009, 14:25   #16
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Thanks harit these are real life facts and we as owners face such situations during the rallies.Since we are talking of Landmasters, here one 1956 Landmaster fitted with a 1489 cc, OHV Ambassador engine, got the award for the Best Woman Rally Driver,in the 2007 rally, but the car was not fit enough for a concours event due to that and many other alterations.Its upholstery was original though.Another known face here had two entries in the 2005 rally..........and decided to keep away from now on.
I am a bit luckier. I have ..................judge and his judgement.
harit other than Landmasters which we are using as an example here to discuss concours, do enlighten us about your experience with other cars too, so that more teambhpians are benefitted.
Yes most of these judges are "Humpty Dumpty". And since these judges do not go to any court there's no chance of any contempt of court for my labelling them as such!
Dear Anjan,

I try to have a clear opinion and see a situation from both sides.
We are mixing up issues. One is the concors judging on cars. That must be done by a qualified person, he must be fair, go deeper into details and you must present(sell) your car to him. In larger events there must be preferably more judges, and they award points by consensus, point system, whichever way. The organiser should have no role in this. But as far as the participants go, they should take part, do their best but not expect anything. That way there will be no disappointment. But you must have your fun. It may not be fair, but an Austin 7 will always be at a disadvantage. You have not mentioned anything about other cars participating at that time and their condition. But a shabby Rolls is likely to be placed above, it is so simply the Rolls has more provenance. Only once was an Austin 7 at Pebble Beach, it even won a prize, but it had a special body, a doctors coupe. Had the participant not have gone with high expectations, he may have been better off. I mean, all students appear for exams, many make huge efforts but still not all are rewarded. So you must do your best without expectations. Here one cannot blame a judge, saying this as I have no idea about his other competitors. And you must find out how prizes are arrived at. Once you get the drift, then decide on your strategy. In Mumbai the required strategy became apparent, I will never cosy up to someone, so I stopped bothering to even getting the cars washed in the morning. Do not expect anything and so do not be disappointed.
The example of incompetent judging was when I got my Humber 1934 Landaulet for an event. It had just come from the workshop of Mr. Barwani, so it was fresh. All fittings including wiring were original. Some chrome was blemished, but again original. And the car was brought to the event by my friend who knew what was required and brought a clean car. It got a second prize. No problem with that, but what got the first prize? A Ford Model T tourer fitted with motorcycle wheels! Now go figure! Next time I bought the Humber, Mr. Barwani was annoyed and told me that at least I should have washed the car. He was right, but I just felt that it makes no sense.

Talking about other prizes like a ladies prize, I feel that the car loses its importance when such criteria are selected. And then some prizes are well deserved some are not. Like you give lifetime achievement awards to people who are dedicated just like the gent mentioned by you but do not have a higher end car. Here the condition/originality plays no role, it is dedication and loyalty to the movement that is important. And so when a ladies prize is given, they would have won it for some criteria considering them to be winners, a criteria other than the car itself. That even applies for the fancy dress competition which I just hate, being serious about cars. But we have learn and live with the fact that our events are not only for us, but also for public consumption, that is needed to get sponsors. A bit of page three is a must. We had stars comming to our events, I still remember one actor who showed up so late that all cars had gone away, crowds and sundry were gone, only one WIAA umbrella was left standing to give him shade, his head already being fried being unable to keep time. But our events need that quotient. And these prizes can be fitted to suit scheme of things. I have seen some very prominent sore losers.
Back to concourse events, judging is also hard work, judges cannot know everything, you have to be there to explain if the judge has questions. I have been told my engine is not original(it was original), my carburator is not original when it was original, so we must be present and judges must ask about aparent deficiencies before passing judgement.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 19:48   #17
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Thanks harit for the words which can come from experience alone.Yes there is some degree of tilt towards the masses for their consumption, in almost all rally events in view of the sponsorship and crowd pulling abilities.These within tolerable limits are acceptable.
Yes, the gentleman who was so dedicated should have been acknowledged in some way or the other. His competitors were always if I can remember were a 1929 Model A Ford, still owned by the same family. They have even preserved the original Cash Memo of Rs 2990=00 of 1929 for that car.Its pictures are in the Nagpur Vintage and Classic car/bike rally 2009 pictures in a thread created by me.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...h-dsc03558.jpg
This apart there was a 1938 Buick (now with Mr Titus in Delhi?), a 1929 Austin 7 convertible very well restored and so on.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 3rd December 2009 at 19:55.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 22:06   #18
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This apart there was a 1938 Buick (now with Mr Titus in Delhi?), a 1929 Austin 7 convertible very well restored and so on.
Any pics of the buick being mentioned ?
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Old 3rd December 2009, 22:22   #19
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Any pics of the buick being mentioned ?
Hi Indrojit- in a hard copy but will get it scanned and post soon.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 22:38   #20
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Hi Indrojit- in a hard copy but will get it scanned and post soon.
Ok can you say what colour is the car and what's the reg number ?
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Old 3rd December 2009, 23:46   #21
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Ok can you say what colour is the car and what's the reg number ?
The 1938 Buick in Nagpur was a junk restored in Nagpur itself and sold to a dealer in Delhi. Must have moved on. Colour was not too stricking, some brownish combination as per my memeory.
The Buick mentioned is not the one with Titus. That was the black Pune car BRA ???? registered, still with Titus.

Cheers harit
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Old 3rd December 2009, 23:49   #22
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The 1938 Buick in Nagpur was a junk restored in Nagpur itself and sold to a dealer in Delhi. Must have moved on. Colour was not too stricking, some brownish combination as per my memeory.
The Buick mentioned is not the one with Titus. That was the black Pune car BRA ???? registered, still with Titus.

Cheers harit

What model was the car?was it a 90l or a 40 special ?

Well i think Mr.titus's car was for sale about 3-4 months back.i had seen an ad in a magazine and it had a mumbai dealers number.I called up the person and asked for pictures and i have them now as well.This car which was offered for sale was a 40 special and had a BR number on it.Later i saw pics of the similar car in the pro bono publico thread and the reg number was the same.

Last edited by Dippy : 4th December 2009 at 09:24. Reason: editing as requested
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Old 4th December 2009, 03:01   #23
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
The 1938 Buick in Nagpur was a junk restored in Nagpur itself and sold to a dealer in Delhi. Must have moved on. Colour was not too stricking, some brownish combination as per my memeory.
The Buick mentioned is not the one with Titus. That was the black Pune car BRA ???? registered, still with Titus.

Cheers harit

-Please post some pics of all the cars in your collection, would love to see them.
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Old 4th December 2009, 07:43   #24
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
The 1938 Buick in Nagpur was a junk restored in Nagpur itself and sold to a dealer in Delhi. Must have moved on. Colour was not too stricking, some brownish combination as per my memeory.
The Buick mentioned is not the one with Titus. That was the black Pune car BRA ???? registered, still with Titus.

Cheers harit
what happened to the 1938 BUICK Special TITUS got from Trivendrum(KLV-1432) car?
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Old 4th December 2009, 10:26   #25
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what happened to the 1938 BUICK Special TITUS got from Trivendrum(KLV-1432) car?
Hi Ajay, nothing happened, it is happening, and when done will stand proud with his silver Limo.

Cheers harit
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Old 4th December 2009, 11:17   #26
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-Please post some pics of all the cars in your collection, would love to see them.
I second this motion.
We need a thread for Harit's collection please. Are you listening ???
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Old 4th December 2009, 11:37   #27
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-Please post some pics of all the cars in your collection, would love to see them.
There is a big problem. I do not have pictures of all my cars, and then, in which thread do you put them up? Most will go in "Rust in Pieces", a few in "Classics being restored in India", and some even in "where is it now". So you can see them as and when they are found, or when they are on the road.

And to the seconder, what is the "need"?

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 4th December 2009 at 11:40.
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Old 4th December 2009, 12:01   #28
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Harit sir, the need is because as 'newbies' to the vintage / classic movement, we have a lot to learn from you and your experiences. That simple !!
You could have a separate thread for this. Any car, any condition will be a treat for our hungry eyes !!
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Old 4th December 2009, 12:06   #29
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and some even in "where is it now". So you can see them as and when they are found, or when they are on the road.
now that"s a classic reply no one but you could make !!

BTW just please make sure your Packards are never in a where is it now situation
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Old 4th December 2009, 15:09   #30
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There is a big problem. I do not have pictures of all my cars, and then, in which thread do you put them up? Most will go in "Rust in Pieces", a few in "Classics being restored in India", and some even in "where is it now". So you can see them as and when they are found, or when they are on the road.

And to the seconder, what is the "need"?

Cheers harit

Sir just start a new thread and as far as the pictures are concerned why don't you take out some time for clicking them or instead as a bhpian to come over to click them i'm sure many would be more than happy to come and do something like this.
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