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Old 5th June 2010, 21:15   #31
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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Why cant we file a PIL to amend the MV act to be more considerate towards classics? Maybe a PIL filed from teambhp's side?
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Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
Motor vehicle act will have to be amended in each state to get benefit to all
also the definition of "classic"" will be prove to be a hurdle here
I dont think so man. Its a tragic fact and we need to live with it.

Presently many cars are not getting registered in Karnataka due to a simple non availability of the Cars Invoice.

There are 5-6 such cars not allowed to be updated due to lack of invoice in my city
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Old 5th June 2010, 21:22   #32
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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Why cant we file a PIL to amend the MV act to be more considerate towards classics? Maybe a PIL filed from teambhp's side?
'would be nice if could be done but unfortunately Team bhp is not a govt.-owned or bureaucratically powerful enough entity that it can command or demand such consideration from the authorities! Also that team bhp is not entirely classic-oriented will also give chance for counter-questions to be raised!

I'm given to understand that organisations like the VCCCI do have greater influence to some extent though.


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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Presently many cars are not getting registered in Karnataka due to a simple non availability of the Cars Invoice.

There are 5-6 such cars not allowed to be updated due to lack of invoice in my city
I dont get it- what exactly do they mean by 'invoice'? If it means a sale receipt from the previous owner, then understandable. But if they expect an OHH REE GEE NAL invoice from the showroom when the car was brought brand new sometime like before they were even born, it raises a doubt as to what those people have within their cranium!

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Old 5th June 2010, 21:34   #33
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hi pawan very simple classic owners getting the invoice issue get to gether file PIL and the rto guys should realise what crap guys talking for instance to get birth certificate i was born at home there could be lot of guys at the same way so tell them fix an value for models and year or get the proof of registration it could be S T C or directimport end of the day we should take some advice from kareem lala the stamp paper king pin to fabricate some invoices just joking
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Old 5th June 2010, 22:34   #34
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Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
Motor vehicle act will have to be amended in each state to get benefit to all
also the definition of "classic"" will be prove to be a hurdle here
Agreed and in all likely hood it is not going to be an easy task and may not also happen.



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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
I'm given to understand that organisations like the VCCCI do have greater influence to some extent though.
I am sure that they would have tried and are still trying but as we can see nothing has worked out so lets see what happenes.


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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
I dont get it- what exactly do they mean by 'invoice'? If it means a sale receipt from the previous owner, then understandable. But if they expect an OHH REE GEE NAL invoice from the showroom when the car was brought brand new sometime like before they were even born, it raises a doubt as to what those people have within their cranium!
He means the original invoice given by the dealer who sold the car and not the sale receipt from the previous owner. It is something as to what we have to do with new cars today when we are registering them.
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Old 5th June 2010, 23:15   #35
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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
'would be nice if could be done but unfortunately Team bhp is not a govt.-owned or bureaucratically powerful enough entity that it can command or demand such consideration from the authorities! Also that team bhp is not entirely classic-oriented will also give chance for counter-questions to be raised!

I'm given to understand that organisations like the VCCCI do have greater influence to some extent though.



I dont get it- what exactly do they mean by 'invoice'? If it means a sale receipt from the previous owner, then understandable. But if they expect an OHH REE GEE NAL invoice from the showroom when the car was brought brand new sometime like before they were even born, it raises a doubt as to what those people have within their cranium!
Half the G***t works without the "Cranium"

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Originally Posted by imperial.s.a View Post
hi pawan very simple classic owners getting the invoice issue get to gether file PIL and the rto guys should realise what crap guys talking for instance to get birth certificate i was born at home there could be lot of guys at the same way so tell them fix an value for models and year or get the proof of registration it could be S T C or directimport end of the day we should take some advice from kareem lala the stamp paper king pin to fabricate some invoices just joking
Yes, sir!. The RTO in Namma Bengaluru needs the original invoice to transfer, update, do the fitness for such classic and vintage cars.

How sad and

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Agreed and in all likely hood it is not going to be an easy task and may not also happen.

I am sure that they would have tried and are still trying but as we can see nothing has worked out so lets see what happenes.

He means the original invoice given by the dealer who sold the car and not the sale receipt from the previous owner. It is something as to what we have to do with new cars today when we are registering them.

There must be some way, but most of the traffic guys around the city are so considerate, they look at the car and give it a royal exit and clear the way for you.
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Old 5th June 2010, 23:24   #36
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Half the G***t works without the "Cranium"
Yes, sir!. The RTO in Namma Bengaluru needs the original invoice to transfer, update, do the fitness for such classic and vintage cars.

How sad and
LOL, Pavan- Cranium is nothing but the skull- that is common to everyone! It's what is inside the cranium (a.k.a 'brain-box'- hint!) is what apparently differs!

Now this is plain ridiculous! Where on earth do you get the original invoice for say, a 50-year old car that wouldve passed through so many hands- with very few one-owner/family owned exceptions!
And I dont know about KA but here in AP with the new 'smart'(?) card system RC, which carry only the current regn. and owner's details of the vehicle, its practically impossible to find out the details of the first owner of the vehicle or previous regn. no. (if any) even with the invoice, as I'm sure even the RTO doesnt maintain the antecedent records!

Last edited by Stanher : 5th June 2010 at 23:28.
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Old 5th June 2010, 23:26   #37
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Now this is plain ridiculous! Where on earth do you get the original invoice for say, a 50-year old car that wouldve passed through so many hands- with very few one-owner/family owned exceptions!
So isn't it more practical to just drive the cars with what ever papers or registration documents you have , and in cases with out papers also ?
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Old 5th June 2010, 23:45   #38
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So isn't it more practical to just drive the cars with what ever papers or registration documents you have , and in cases with out papers also ?
I'm certainly not against the idea of having only the existing papers for the cars if inevitable! My '58 Lambretta LD for instance, comes from Indore, MP with still the old series MP regn. no. and the original book type RC. I have no qualms about keeping it with the same. But when it comes to me, I prefer to have the documents, updated or not, at hand for my own 'safety' (in the sense, for instance lest someone who knows/has known my vehicle closely comes up with a duplicate RC bearing all the details inc. engine/chassis no. and claims it was his vehicle and was stolen and so on...!) In the event of my having the original RC (which incidentally I also feel is safer than having the newer smart card types that have come out in AP, I find the former more authentic) such a claim can be easily refuted.

But that is just my perception and if someone braves the chance for themselves, of taking a vehicle without any related documents at all, it is again their personal view and I dont necessarily find it ominous.
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Old 6th June 2010, 09:47   #39
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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
So isn't it more practical to just drive the cars with what ever papers or registration documents you have , and in cases with out papers also ?


indrojit,
i feel you are promoting ""Illegality"" in the name of "practicality""
It is really risky driving any vehicle on the roads without papers!!
In kerala, I know of 2 instances where pre1960 cars were impounded when they were on the road without papers.
also there is another possiblity (hypothetical).
suppose you and another person were eyeing a rare car without documents. You happen to beat him in getting that. The other guy having known that the car doesnt have papers lodges a false complaint that you are not the genuine owner,how are you going to prove your ownership???
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Old 6th June 2010, 09:54   #40
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Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
also there is another possiblity (hypothetical).
suppose you and another person were eyeing a rare car without documents. You happen to beat him in getting that. The other guy having known that the car doesnt have papers lodges a false complaint that you are not the genuine owner,how are you going to prove your ownership???
My point exactly! Worst case scenario, the only reason why I would prefer to have a vehicle with an RC even if not updated!
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Old 6th June 2010, 10:28   #41
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Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
indrojit,
i feel you are promoting ""Illegality"" in the name of "practicality""
It is really risky driving any vehicle on the roads without papers!!
In kerala, I know of 2 instances where pre1960 cars were impounded when they were on the road without papers.
also there is another possiblity (hypothetical).
I think i haven't done anything illegal and not promoting anything illegel. I am trying to look for a solution to problems. Could you please suggest some ways in which you can use classic cars if they don't have papers? Apart from that i know of 2 people who did a all india tour in 2 classic cars and you would be shocked to know that their cars didn't haveany papers and they did go through kerala and places. However this was not very long back.

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Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
suppose you and another person were eyeing a rare car without documents. You happen to beat him in getting that. The other guy having known that the car doesnt have papers lodges a false complaint that you are not the genuine owner,how are you going to prove your ownership???

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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
My point exactly! Worst case scenario, the only reason why I would prefer to have a vehicle with an RC even if not updated!


Well they are many ways of doing that but i wouldn't like to disclose them here. Mind you they are all legal.

Last edited by IndrojitSircar : 6th June 2010 at 10:37.
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Old 6th June 2010, 10:42   #42
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It is OK to have a car without regestration documents provided it is used on private roads.

You could even trailer it to meets and display it but you would not be allowed to drive it on public roads.
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Old 6th June 2010, 11:21   #43
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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
Why cant we file a PIL to amend the MV act to be more considerate towards classics? Maybe a PIL filed from teambhp's side?
A PIL could be filed by a club, better still by a group vof clubs coming together. But when you have cities with 2 to 3 clubs each, or highly fragmented, there is no point. First there has to some unity among us for better and common good. Sadly, that is lacking very badly.

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Originally Posted by imperial.s.a View Post
hi pawan very simple classic owners getting the invoice issue get to gether file PIL and the rto guys should realise what crap guys talking for instance to get birth certificate i was born at home there could be lot of guys at the same way so tell them fix an value for models and year or get the proof of registration it could be S T C or directimport end of the day we should take some advice from kareem lala the stamp paper king pin to fabricate some invoices just joking
This is a problem of non-application of mind. The invoice required is the original sale invoice. Many RTO offices ask for this for new cars, even in Mhahrashtra, but not for vintages. Karnataka seems to have a special problem. One has to work his way around this, agents normally offer solutions at a price.

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
So isn't it more practical to just drive the cars with what ever papers or registration documents you have , and in cases with out papers also ?
Perhaps you have again forgotton the disclaimer para? Not advisable to do something illegal and highly risky.

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
I think i haven't done anything illegal and not promoting anything illegel. I am trying to look for a solution to problems. Could you please suggest some ways in which you can use classic cars if they don't have papers? Apart from that i know of 2 people who did a all india tour in 2 classic cars and you would be shocked to know that their cars didn't haveany papers and they did go through kerala and places. However this was not very long back.
Well they are many ways of doing that but i wouldn't like to disclose them here. Mind you they are all legal.
Remember, solutions to problems can be legal, can be done by bending rules but can also be illegal. I prefer the first, sometimes resort to the second, but never the third. Would you like to see your "beauty" ( I hate that word when referring to cars) impounded and rotting in a police station? Its mascot would be available in a bazar the next day.
The 2 people in 2 classic cars did a foolish thing, and it is more foolish to put that in writing on a forum.

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It is OK to have a car without regestration documents provided it is used on private roads. You could even trailer it to meets and display it but you would not be allowed to drive it on public roads.
Absolutely correct, on private roads you can use such cars, but in case of an accident the insurance co needs to see docs. But the trailer must also have docs, a problem for some.

Again, do not use cars on the road without upto date docs. You risk a lot. And more if there is an accident.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 6th June 2010 at 11:23.
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Old 6th June 2010, 19:26   #44
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LOL, Pavan- Cranium is nothing but the skull- that is common to everyone! It's what is inside the cranium (a.k.a 'brain-box'- hint!) is what apparently differs!

Now this is plain ridiculous! Where on earth do you get the original invoice for say, a 50-year old car that wouldve passed through so many hands- with very few one-owner/family owned exceptions!
And I dont know about KA but here in AP with the new 'smart'(?) card system RC, which carry only the current regn. and owner's details of the vehicle, its practically impossible to find out the details of the first owner of the vehicle or previous regn. no. (if any) even with the invoice, as I'm sure even the RTO doesnt maintain the antecedent records!

I think the RTO will be having all the old records of all cars registered with them, unless it has been lost due to any calamiity
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Old 6th June 2010, 20:06   #45
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hi we had an incidence for an w115 transfer like tax has been paid the RTO said the file is missing finally used some influnce came to know the challan was bogus so the rto told us to pay the tax we were willing now they want the invoice to asses the tax this is the harrasment we face in karnataka
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