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Old 2nd June 2010, 00:05   #16
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I'm not sure if I know of this car. Old court in the sence, any other landmarks?
You remember a diesel petrol pump on the left side I guess it's HP pump while going towards kothapet just before the sand lorries stand, there is a garage next to some stone/flooring shop. The garage is not visible from outside as you need to go deep inside however you can find out there is a garage.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 21:55   #17
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So Guys,

Time to start the restoration, Took stock of existing parts with the car and found few things. Listed out few things that came to my notice.

1) Original
2) Not much of panel changes
3) Floor is replaced with cheap quality metal
4) Lots of rusting on the floor
5) Unwanted fittings on the car
6) Engine is healthy, but the head is a big headache
7) Rims from an Alto, But have original rims from the spare car.
8) Some original cosmetic fittings intact and in good shape
9) Seats are original but altered
10) Collapsible roof removed and an makeshift acrylic sheet put on, but spare car has it.
11) None of the original lights available on the car.
12) Wiring is minimal and of low quality
13) Lots and lots and lots of metal paste on the body surface

We are at a stage where we have to put everything in one piece,The Body, the engine, rims and tyres, the roof, etc., etc.,........! a BIG jigsaw puzzle to solve.

We first start with scraping the paint on the body using paint remover, and gallons and gallons flow for this job

Some pics.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 09:58   #18
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Feels great to look at this cute wonder. Every time i see this model car there is some sort of urge to own this model in me. Have located a piece but that car is a total no mans car (lawaaris). Will take some snaps and post them here if you permit.
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Old 4th June 2010, 10:30   #19
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Feels great to look at this cute wonder. Every time i see this model car there is some sort of urge to own this model in me. Have located a piece but that car is a total no mans car (lawaaris). Will take some snaps and post them here if you permit.
To say, firstly this car can be termed as "RARE" there are not much in good running condition across the country.

You are at free will to post pics of the same car found anywhere in the country, that would be a valuable contribution to this thread.

After 3 days of scrubbing and sanding, the bare metal surfaced

More than half the weight of the car reduced in the form of metal paste.


The bonnet and the 2 doors went into the donor car, since the doors and the bonnet on the donor car were in better and original condition. This doubles up the happiness of making a decision to buy the donor car.
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Old 4th June 2010, 10:41   #20
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.......
One ad about a Bug for sale at Hyderabad was worrying him since couple of days, i instantly located a car for him. ......

The car was purchased along with another spare car at a slightly high price. But we knew all this was worth the effort.
So comes the 1950 Fiat Topolino to Namma Bengaluru.

Contd.........
Hyderabad ke yaron!! Kya tho bhi horan bhai!! Loga arren jarren, yahaka haseenaon ke lekey jaaren!!
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Aah, pavan! ChannAgidhire! Nice to see a thread on the little mouse at last!.......
Shyam bhai, kuch karna padenga yaron!! Aur mein kuch bhi nahin karroon!!
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Old 4th June 2010, 11:43   #21
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Hi Pawan,

Please do not mind, but I feel that you do not know much about the troubles these cars, like Bug Fiats, (also known as 'Mouse' in many parts of the world) give because of the engine head.
In your post below, where you took "stock", you have listed under no 6 - engine healthy but head is a big headache. IMHO, I feel that you should stop everything and first get the engine running. Almost all the bug Fiats lying and scrapped all over the country died because of the aluminium head which corrodes and kills the car. A premium restorer in central India also, surprise surprise, restored a bug Fiat for a Mumbai collector, maybe as a special favour, and the head gave maximum trouble. So we have a 7 star restored Mouse brought down to its knees because of the engine, the cars is still not seen on the roads. And almost every abandoned bug Fiat lying around has its engine pulled out. There are even now some lying in Lonavala, Mumbai about 15 years ago had 12 lying around, now most are scrapped or placed elsewhere. There were so many of these cars in India, but survival rate is poor because of this inherent problem. When people now collect Dukker Fiats and Fiat 500 / 600, why should they not collect these Bug Fiats? Because after the engine gives way, these cars are a headache.
This is also true for many Rolls's, Bentleys and particularly Mercedes Benz pre-1940 6 cylinder cars. I know, I got a head made for one such Merc. The water jacket was corroded, they simply tried to make do with M-Seal, but that did not work. My Packard Super 8 had the same problem, we had to make a head for that too.
I suggest that you first tackle the engine, get a head from abroad, or get one cast and machined, and then proceed with the restoration. Ofcourse in the meanwhile you should keep on collecting missing/damaged bits and pieces. I could put you onto a workshop that could help fabricate a new part, he would have to check if this is posibile.

Good Luck, and
Cheers harit
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Old 4th June 2010, 14:34   #22
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Hyderabad ke yaron!! Kya tho bhi horan bhai!! Loga arren jarren, yahaka haseenaon ke lekey jaaren!!

Shyam bhai, kuch karna padenga yaron!! Aur mein kuch bhi nahin karroon!!

Kya yaaron, aankhan daalri tum. Hyderabaad ki chaarminaar ki kasam, wohan ki haseenaon mere pe jaan lutaati yaaron. ab main kya karoon

I've been plain lucky in helping my friends here in Bangalore with few cars from Hyderabad

1) 1967 VW Split Bus
2) 1971 VW Baywindow
3) 1966 VW Beetle
4) 1950 Bug Fiat
5) 1949 Bug Fiat

There are 3 more in-line....lol...

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Hi Pawan,

Please do not mind, but I feel that you do not know much about the troubles these cars, like Bug Fiats, (also known as 'Mouse' in many parts of the world) give because of the engine head.
In your post below, where you took "stock", you have listed under no 6 - engine healthy but head is a big headache. IMHO, I feel that you should stop everything and first get the engine running. Almost all the bug Fiats lying and scrapped all over the country died because of the aluminium head which corrodes and kills the car. A premium restorer in central India also, surprise surprise, restored a bug Fiat for a Mumbai collector, maybe as a special favour, and the head gave maximum trouble. So we have a 7 star restored Mouse brought down to its knees because of the engine, the cars is still not seen on the roads. And almost every abandoned bug Fiat lying around has its engine pulled out. There are even now some lying in Lonavala, Mumbai about 15 years ago had 12 lying around, now most are scrapped or placed elsewhere. There were so many of these cars in India, but survival rate is poor because of this inherent problem. When people now collect Dukker Fiats and Fiat 500 / 600, why should they not collect these Bug Fiats? Because after the engine gives way, these cars are a headache.
This is also true for many Rolls's, Bentleys and particularly Mercedes Benz pre-1940 6 cylinder cars. I know, I got a head made for one such Merc. The water jacket was corroded, they simply tried to make do with M-Seal, but that did not work. My Packard Super 8 had the same problem, we had to make a head for that too.
I suggest that you first tackle the engine, get a head from abroad, or get one cast and machined, and then proceed with the restoration. Ofcourse in the meanwhile you should keep on collecting missing/damaged bits and pieces. I could put you onto a workshop that could help fabricate a new part, he would have to check if this is posibile.

Good Luck, and
Cheers harit
Harit ji,

Your views are BANG ON. Right on the spot.

While tinkering is happening seperately in a different bodyshop, even that is being done as per the original factory specifications (Handmade floor panels) Few cosmetic parts are sourced and kept handy.

The pertinent problem related to engine was mentioned to me by my Pilot Freind (His Dad owned this car sometime back) I never knew it was this grave. Not that its giving me a scare, yes i have been doing lot of research on machining the engine head since last 2 months. We are fortunate to have 2 heads to work on.

Last month we were successful in getting one head ready, but we never knew the actual height of the head. this head had a height of 65.5 mm and this must not be the actual height for such an old car. We have kept it aside presently.

Again few weeks ago, we started on a head which had its height increased by "Cold Welding" method, the height of the head stands at 72 mm, its been faced upto a height of 70 mm now. We are drilling the valve well and the water holes presently, also polishing and porting the inlet and exhaust ports, to achieve free flow of fuel at the inlet and a free flow exhaust gasses at the exhaust port.

Any more inputs on the mechanical aspects, i would beg you to contribute further.
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Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered-p170310_17.42.jpg  

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Old 4th June 2010, 15:23   #23
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Originally Posted by kkr2k2 View Post
Hyderabad ke yaron!! Kya tho bhi hora bhai!! Loga arren jarren, yahaka haseenaon ku lekey jaaren!!

Shyam bhai, kuch karna padenga yaron!! Aur mein kuch bhi nahin karroon!!
And I hope this also is tentative on your part, like your normal status for the local meets!

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Kya yaaron, aankhan daalri tum.
This is tooooo much I say!

Quote:
The pertinent problem related to engine was mentioned to me by my Pilot Freind (His Dad owned this car sometime back) I never knew it was this grave. Not that its giving me a scare, yes i have been doing lot of research on machining the engine head since last 2 months. We are fortunate to have 2 heads to work on.

Last month we were successful in getting one head ready, but we never knew the actual height of the head. this head had a height of 65.5 mm and this must not be the actual height for such an old car. We have kept it aside presently.
Incidentally, I was once told that this problem of the head going on bug fiats was because of it's design with the radiator being behind the engine?
There was one mechanic who told me he once made a new head for a bug fiat by making the mould out of a wooden block based on the original as template, then using that to make the new head.
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Old 4th June 2010, 23:14   #24
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Incidentally, I was once told that this problem of the head going on bug fiats was because of it's design with the radiator being behind the engine?
There was one mechanic who told me he once made a new head for a bug fiat by making the mould out of a wooden block based on the original as template, then using that to make the new head.
But none have found any concrete solution to resolve the impending issue

I had a chance to communicate with one Mr Akhilesh Aggarwal, looks like he has 2 Topolino's. But could not get much of the needed information.

Anyways, after having worked with dozen and more engines, i am somehow "Confident" that my machining, and few improvised ideas will help the engine run well and turn the car into a "Daily Runner". Its a challenge to myself, and request everyones prayer in achieving this.

Few pics of the head being worked on. Sorry for the bad VGA pics.
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Old 5th June 2010, 18:51   #25
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So Guys,


Some pics.
First..you are a true restorer..hats off to that.

I am not sure if this is your own garage? If it is, could you please clean up the surroundings..lots of plastic bags, trash all over..or take pics in the cleaner area?

We are the new generation..this pics still depict India as a dirty, unhygeinic place..and these pics are on internet for world to see.
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Old 5th June 2010, 21:03   #26
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First..you are a true restorer..hats off to that.

I am not sure if this is your own garage? If it is, could you please clean up the surroundings..lots of plastic bags, trash all over..or take pics in the cleaner area?

We are the new generation..this pics still depict India as a dirty, unhygeinic place..and these pics are on internet for world to see.

Anna.

Thank you for your concern

Perhaps i need to explain to you, the ground is an open empty area, belonging to the BBMP, which still needs to be developed.

As far as the car photographed at that location, Will explain to you. The process of paint stripping is very hazardous, it involves toxic chemical which needs to be handled carefully, a bit of stray spray on finished cars, the paintjob will get screwed up. You can see the workshop in the background and the kind of cars being parked inside.So we usually isolate the car from the rest of them and complete this process.

Next time will try to mask the background if needed and then post pics.
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Old 5th June 2010, 23:36   #27
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But none have found any concrete solution to resolve the impending issue

I had a chance to communicate with one Mr Akhilesh Aggarwal, looks like he has 2 Topolino's. But could not get much of the needed information.

Anyways, after having worked with dozen and more engines, i am somehow "Confident" that my machining, and few improvised ideas will help the engine run well and turn the car into a "Daily Runner". Its a challenge to myself, and request everyones prayer in achieving this.

Few pics of the head being worked on. Sorry for the bad VGA pics.
Hi Pawan,

I am making an assumption that Airbusdriver is your friend. And that you both live in the same city. So you must do a good job to keep your reputation intact. But, I feel that your confidence in your machining, improvised ideas and all our prayers may not be sufficient to do the trick. Because many have trodden this path before you, for the very same engine. I humbly suggest that you do what you are attempting to do, but parallely still go in for a new head. It can be imported if it is new.
You could also go ahead and get a new head cast. But that will involve time, money and a few heart breaks along the way. I have been there. Making a head involves making a pattern with cores, then you show this to the casting shop. They will check, ask for modifications, or perhaps even do the casting immediately. After casting you have to do the machining, you may find blow holes. So you have to cast 2 or 3 pcs. After machining, then vacuum impregnation, and voila, you are done if all went well. Consider atleast 6 months to complete this task.
This will ensure that the car becomes a daily driver. No short cuts, and no ingenius engineering. And if you are successful, you can make a batch and sell to others as a help.

Wishing you luck. And if your engineering does succeed, you still have to provide some back-up.
BTW, whichever way the engine is fixed, use only clean/distilled water in the radiator. You need not buy that stuff, the condensation from an AC should be collected in a can and can be used. I am not joking!!

Cheers harit

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Old 5th June 2010, 23:51   #28
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Hi Pawan,

I am making an assumption that Airbusdriver is your friend. And that you both live in the same city. So you must do a good job to keep your reputation ion tact. But, I feel that your confidence in your machining, improvised ideas and all our prayers may no9t do the trick. Because many have trodden this path before you, for the very same engine. I humbly suggest that you do what you are attempting to do, but still go in for a new head. It can be imported if it is new.
You could also go ahead and get a head cast. But that will involve time, money and a few heart breaks along the way. I have been there. Making a head involves making a pattern with cores, then you show this to the casting shop. They will check, ask for modifications, or even cast. After casting you have to do the machining, you may find blow holes. So you have to cast 2 or 3 pcs. Then machining, thereafter vacuum impregnation, and voila, you are done if all went well. Consider atleast 6 months to complete this task.
This will ensure that the car becomes a daily driver. No short cuts, and no ingenius engineering. And if you are successful, you can make a batch and sell to others as a help.

Wisdhing you luck. And if your engineering does succeed, you still have to provide some back-up.
BTW, whichever way the engine is fixed, use only clean/distilled water in the radiator. You need not buy that stuff, the condensation from an AC should be collected in a can and can be used. I am not joking!!

Cheers harit
Such encouraging words from known heads is what makes this kind of restoration an exciting one. Mind you sir, this is THE RESTORATION where i am working my brains double shifts And yes AirbusDriver lives close to my locality and a dear friend of mine.

In a couple of days, the head will be ready from the lathe, later i am going to spend a coupe of days in improvising, viz., Boring and increasing the water holes, making them a kind of free flow and some other stuff, which i will keep updating here.

The main enemy that we need to kill is the excessive heat generated. I have been reading some books on compression and heat generated in the combustion chamber, also discussing few things with college students in their final year of Automobile/ Mechanical engineering Somehow feel everything will fall in place by end of this month.

While the work is happening, i am getting few cosmetics and other stuff removed from the car and getting them to proper working and looking order.
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Old 6th June 2010, 11:46   #29
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Such encouraging words from known heads is what makes this kind of restoration an exciting one. Mind you sir, this is THE RESTORATION where i am working my brains double shifts

The main enemy that we need to kill is the excessive heat generated.
How do you do that? Multitasking?

Remember, when these cars came out originally from the factory, they were not known to haver overheating problems. So in all probability there is something wrong in the radiator-cooling system or the head. Well, good luck.
Meanwhile, see if you can come up with a head (for the engine, not a brain box) on the net.

Cheers harit
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Old 7th June 2010, 09:19   #30
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How do you do that? Multitasking?

Remember, when these cars came out originally from the factory, they were not known to haver overheating problems. So in all probability there is something wrong in the radiator-cooling system or the head. Well, good luck.
Meanwhile, see if you can come up with a head (for the engine, not a brain box) on the net.

Cheers harit
Multitasking is something i learn from my daily Banking job

Sir, about the overheating problem, i shall tell you , how i am planning to overcome, guide me if i am going in the right direction.

1)RADIATOR= I've made more water channels in the Radiator and used bigger shells for better water flow and cooling.

2)ENGINE HEAD= i have increased the Height of the Head by 2mm, thus reducing compression ratio, Now in this case, the combustion chamber heat is reduced due to low compression - This idea was derived from the Low compression engines designed by VW

3) ENGINE FAN=Though i intend to retain the original 3 blade fan for cooling the radiator, i am not ruling out using an electric fan with a thermostat. Here i get better cooling due to higher speeds on the latest genereation fan. If not, am planning to use a 5 blade fans that come with the 118NE.

4) VALVE CLEARENCE=The tappet gap on this engines are set at 0.25mm. i intend to increase it slightly upto .035mm make the tappets run a bit loose.

All the above are the simplest methods that i am planning, i have discussed this with most of the mechanics, but their limited and learnt knowledge does not make them think beyond the box. But i am 95% sure the above changes does help in making the engine run a lot cooler than what it actually should.

Some more updates.

The donor car makes its first donations. The 2 doors and the bonnet comes off. But its a give and take policy.
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