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Old 5th August 2015, 14:03   #571
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Sorry to hear that restoration was not upto your expectations, but what exactly are the issues? You mention the car does not run, can you share some details with some pictures of issues that you are referring to.

Last but not the least, it may be a good thing to meet up and discuss, to resolve the issues with the restorer. For the sake of saving the cute car
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Old 5th August 2015, 17:11   #572
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Jeevan very unforunate that you had to go through this for having faith on someone close. Lessons learnt the hard way , keep business & friendship apart.
No charity here for sure.
Can we please know where the 9 Lakhs has been spent a car not worth so much???
please give us complete info as one of my friend is willing to restore a car & I dont want him to fall in a sweet pit.
You giving clarity to us will help many more from the forum & car enthusiasts from being taken on a not real charity deal.
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Old 5th August 2015, 19:01   #573
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Joy,
Feel sorry at your disappointment.But really amusing that it took about 6years to realise that.
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Old 5th August 2015, 19:52   #574
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Joy,

where is the donor car? Have you restored that too, Is it in your possession?
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Old 5th August 2015, 20:35   #575
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Hello Nandish,

I was planning to restore the Donor car and use the shell to make it an electric car or even plonk a big Motorcycle engine like the Smart car in the YouTube videos. I discussed this with Pavan many times over.

But guess what? Pavan sold the Donor car without my permission!
One day a friend forwarded an advertisement on OLX / Quikr for a Topolino shell going for One lakh! It was my Donor Topolino!!

When I confronted him he says to me that people were trying to steal the car and he was pressurized to sell it to avoid it being stolen...from his Garage! Amazing story eh!?

After making an issue of him selling it off without my knowledge, he tried telling me that he took my Friend Juggie's permission instead...because he could not reach me!
He says he sold it for 25K...while he made me buy it for 55k and transportation from Hyderabad. How fair is that!?

Interestingly, the Donor engine went missing too!
This time it was the Mechanic who lost it when they moved! This according to Pavan! Go Figure!!
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Old 5th August 2015, 21:04   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
Joy,
Feel sorry at your disappointment.But really amusing that it took about 6years to realise that.
Ajay, It was quite okay when I started this project. It was dear to me and I thought I had found a Good restorer...but Alas, it was not to be. I gave him a free reign and an unlimited budget and it has to come down to this!

I was willing to find closure...but he taunts!? He shouldn't have opened this can of Worms!

Honestly, he's only a roadside mechanic with a FB page!
I would have cut my losses and let go if he had just finished the Car as promised and I could enjoy driving her a bit.

I was made the Guniea Pig for his experiments...which I paid dearly!
Would you believe it if I told you that this car was painted in an Open Dirt floor Garage! But wait...SANDOX paint had to be used! DuPont was just not good Enough!

The stories Were unbelievably good! When I found out, he now repaints the car in a Paint Booth! Guess who pays for the SANDOX paint which is only 3500 RS/ litre!?...and the paint booth??

I realized it by 2012 ( when the car was shown to the world as complete) but had to play along because he had my Car and the papers! Every time I would ask for her, he would find excuses not to hand her over. So...I knew!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nandishpal View Post
Jeevan very unforunate that you had to go through this for having faith on someone close. Lessons learnt the hard way , keep business & friendship apart.
No charity here for sure.
Can we please know where the 9 Lakhs has been spent a car not worth so much???
please give us complete info as one of my friend is willing to restore a car & I dont want him to fall in a sweet pit.
You giving clarity to us will help many more from the forum & car enthusiasts from being taken on a not real charity deal.
Nandish,

Over 9+ lacs has been spent.

Pavan is in the banking line and is good with accounts. He would send me the Expenses via an Excel Sheet. Most payments were using Cheques...so everything is in Black and White! Everything is on record.

I would like to post the Entire list for your friend who will get an idea how restorations work! Atleast, this is how it worked out for me! I will have to scan it and put it here. I will do that in a few days time ( I'm not in India ) if it is okay by the moderators!?

Long story Short close to 10 lacs was spent buying the car and a Donor car( 3+lacs ) and the restoration ( 6+ lacs) and still the car is not roadworthy!

Last edited by Technocrat : 5th August 2015 at 21:28. Reason: Please use multi-quote option instead of creating back to back posts, thanks
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Old 5th August 2015, 22:34   #577
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

This sweet little FIAT Topolino is one of it's kind car in the FIAT Club of Bangalore. Have won hearts of many. Have seen the car right when the restoration was on during 2009 in a garage behind the Godrej apts Hebbal and a couple of times in various occasions. The car appeared good and road worthy. This is my humble opinion.


Aug 2012 at the FIAT Club meet.
Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered-1111.jpg

March 2013 at the opening ceremony of Vecto Motors.
Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered-2222.jpg

Sept 2013 at the FIAT Club meet.
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Old 5th August 2015, 22:42   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Sorry to hear that restoration was not upto your expectations, but what exactly are the issues? You mention the car does not run, can you share some details with some pictures of issues that you are referring to.

Last but not the least, it may be a good thing to meet up and discuss, to resolve the issues with the restorer. For the sake of saving the cute car
Issues Jaggu? Where do I start? Ok..here goes Nothing!

August 2012, after about Two and half years of a No holds barred ' Concours ' restoration, the car was shown to the world at a FIAT car meet in Cubbon Park, Bangalore. The car gathered a lot of attention and the public was delighted!

The car was not ready! it was hurriedly put together the previous night and 'Thook Malished' against my wishes!
Pavan had promised the FIAT club that the TOPOLINO will be displayed.

Mechanically, he seemed to have solved the dreaded Head issue and I admit the Engine ran okay.
I didn't drive the car as the Car lacked the right papers and I was not confident it would make it home.
I was pleasantly surprised when she ran a good 40 odd kms from the Garage to the Fiat Meet and thereafter home...for the very first time!

I drove the car for the very first time around the block near my home and so did my Dad and my Brother! (All of half a Km!)

My joy was short lived! As we parked the car in my Garage at Home, the steering wheel broke and literally came out in my hands!
I could not believe my eyes when on closer inspection, I found that the Steering column Shaft was welded ( brazed !!!) directly like a ' T ' on to the cross shaft!!?? What in the hell!?
That was the End!...beginning of the End!?

He said he will come back with his ' Guru ' and take her back to the garage for more welding!
I outright refused and insisted that a proper Coupling be used to fix the Steering for Good!
Remind you, Now this is after the so called ' Concours ' restoration!
He finally takes the Car with his Guru in Nov 2012 ( after 3 months )and It remained with him for another year and a half!

Meanwhile...things start to break when he has the car!
Radiator, Brakes, Steering, Propeller Shaft, Electricals...everything is redone and billed again!
Meanwhile He is posting pictures of the Car running in traffic and the big Fanfare at the FIAT Cafe' which he hogs avoiding me. People are now endorsing this Amazing little creation left, right and center including the FIAT honcho who came to inaugurate the Showroom!
Little did people know what this Car was made of and the fortune spent!

There's more...call me if you or anyone else like more details + 91-9986993569. I will be in India Aug 10.

Phew!
I will post pics when I reach India.

Jaggu , I gave him umpteen chances to reconcile and fix his mess.
Once, he had some passion. Now it is purely BUSINESS!
I would still give him another Chance if he Mans up!
I too want Closure...the car sits half baked and is sad to see her like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik1100 View Post
This sweet little FIAT Topolino is one of it's kind car in the FIAT Club of Bangalore. Have won hearts of many. Have seen the car right when the restoration was on during 2009 in a garage behind the Godrej apts Hebbal and a couple of times in various occasions. The car appeared good and road worthy. This is my humble opinion.





Aug 2012 at the FIAT Club meet.
Attachment 1400007

March 2013 at the opening ceremony of Vecto Motors.
Attachment 1400008

Sept 2013 at the FIAT Club meet.
Attachment 1400009

Attachment 1400010
Hello Karthik,

The key word is ' appeared '
Appearances can be Deceiving!?

Please read the above post I replied JAGGU...if you would like to know the True story of this Sweet Little FIAT TOPOLINO. Don't go by Appearances and Assume things.

I tried to reach out to the FIAT club but I got the feeling that I was distanced from the Club...very tactfully!
I would like to meet you guys and discuss this car. Would you be able to help me revive this beauty that you so like?

Last edited by Jaggu : 5th August 2015 at 23:07. Reason: Back to back posts. Use Multi Quote [Quote +] Thanks.
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Old 5th August 2015, 23:19   #579
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRBUSDriver View Post
Jaggu , I gave him umpteen chances to reconcile and fix his mess.
Once, he had some passion. Now it is purely BUSINESS!
I would still give him another Chance if he Mans up!
I too want Closure...the car sits half baked and is sad to see her like this.
Guess this was the best Fiat restoration i had seen and was given utmost importance for the restoration by Pavan, saw him struggling for getting the best parts and yes to collect balance from your side which is being pending for more than 4years if i am not wrong.

Please show some gratitude to people who invest their time and personal money to restore your car & on your request after you lost your job at KF of paying later which is till date due.

And guess Pavan should talk about chances and not you to clear up your mess and settle the account.
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Old 5th August 2015, 23:42   #580
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Dear Jeevan,

I neither know you nor Pawan, but felt I needed to comment on your post .

In your earlier post, number 537 of 6th august 2012, You state that this car has come home and was driven at speeds of 40 kmph or so for nearly 100 kms.

Now you say something different.

Which post would you like us to believe??
Dear Bulldogji,

It is a fact that the Car was driven Atleast 40-50 kms that day. Pavan thought it was 70. I said 100. Between 50-100 would be a safe bet!

It is also fact that the Car came home Aug 2012... briefly. Pavan did all the driving as I didn't want to drive without the right documents. And I lacked confidence in the car I must admit.

It is also a fact that I (Me) have not driven this car a full Kilometer since the day it was supposedly Complete!
The date of Delivery is debatable? If you look at Post # 564 Pavan still has the car at his house! That post was 31 Dec 2013.

It is Fact that the Car was Delivered ( finally ) in 2014. Hope you read the details of how it Broke down on the day of delivery in Aug 2012 and it was taken for restoration again in Nov 2012 and returned to me only in 2014.

Please read my above/below response to JAGGU for more insight and details of how it all played out!
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Old 6th August 2015, 00:19   #581
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Quote:
Originally Posted by gowda79 View Post
Guess this was the best Fiat restoration i had seen and was given utmost importance for the restoration by Pavan, saw him struggling for getting the best parts and yes to collect balance from your side which is being pending for more than 4years if i am not wrong.

Please show some gratitude to people who invest their time and personal money to restore your car & on your request after you lost your job at KF of paying later which is till date due.

And guess Pavan should talk about chances and not you to clear up your mess and settle the account.
Dear Gowda,

If you think this was a great restoration...I hate to break your bubble my friend. Including Pavan knows that this is far from Good!

Obviously you don't know the Truth about this restoration.
You got it all wrong. Pavan Owes me...not the other way round.
Close to 10 lacs was spent on this project. Pavan has collected nearly 6 lacs. It is on Record.

All dues were cleared in front of a Witness ( Jagdeesh Bakta ) on the day the car was delivered Finally!
Pavan owes me KA plates and the number 500 as promised by him that day. It is all on record.

Pavan has all records on a Excel sheet. Ask him to publish it here for everyone to see! Infact it will be fun to see the Expense list!
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Old 6th August 2015, 00:36   #582
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post
Dear Jeevan,

Restoration and running of the vintage cars are not for the faint hearted. One has to go through a lot of pain and at times it can be never ending. All along I have tried to explain people who are interested in buying and restoring cars, should
  1. Understand how cars are valued. For example a convertible will be valued 4-5 times a sedan
  2. One must understand the valuations of a mass produced car.
  3. Understand why you are getting the unrestored car so cheap. Remember nothing comes cheap.
  4. Check around with third parties at what price restored cars, similar to your car are being sold at. If car are being sold at 5-6 lakhs, it does not make any sense in spending more than the estimated valuations on the restoration



Quoting Harit , we always knew that the engine was going to be a challenge

Wish you all the very best

Cheers

KPS
Agreed KPS agreed! :(

Burnt both feet and hands . A very expensive lesson learned!

I want this thread to be a Warning to all Classic/ Vintage car owners.
Please don't give your beauties to restorers unless you can be involved in the Resto completely...and daily!!!


And I agree with HARIT.

The Topolino Head is a Nightmare and will remain an Enigma to most Mechanics in India!

I feel it's the Proverbial ' Achilles Heel ' for this little FIAT ! My Dad had told me that!!
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Old 6th August 2015, 01:03   #583
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

Nice Joke, being an Ex- Banker for 13 years, my data and records are always clear and Correct

02nd December 2011 - Kingfisher went into doldrums and Jeevan Joy lost his Job. The restoration was Mid-way untill then.

22nd December 2011 - Rs. 22,000/- was paid to me , infact the last ever payment received by me, paid in cash.

28th December 2011 - Jeevan joy along with his best friend Jagadish Bhakta came home, ate the food i served , asked me for a favour to restore the car somehow, but Jeevan Joy will be unable to pay up since KF shut shop. This is the BEGINNING of my lifes BIGGEST BLUNDER, i fell into this emotional trap as Jeevan Joy was my so called very good friend untill then. I went ahead and broke my personal FD in my bank for Rs. 1,51,000/- and its all recorded.

5th August 2012 - The car was ready for the Bangalore Fiat Club Show and to be delivered to Jeevan Joy. The car was driven more than 70 kms and delivered, infact that particular day, the car was running since 9 am in the morning till 5 pm in the evening with multiple people driving it,

I delivered the car along with the usual monthly bills that he had concured to and with a promise i will be paid ASAP, till date i still maintained, restoration standard is not yet up there, but there is lot of scope for improvement, its all documented here on Team-bhp.

several months passed and Jeevan joy joined ARIK AIR in October 2012, but paying me my money was still a matter of doubt as he had no response.

12th November 2012 - Jeevan Joy called me home, as the car had few pending issues, which again is documented here on the forum, i took the car back, and also agreed to complete the RTO formalities, for which he paid, But my payment was still a subject matter of discussion.

After 12th Nov 2012 - My woes began, payments still not paid, inspite of repeated requests he turned a deaf ear and started verbally abusing me for inflating the restoration costs ( which he was all OK till 2012 ) That is when i decided to retain the car untill i receive payments.

January 2014 - Again Jeevan Joys friend Jagadeesh Bhakta intervened and i drove the car over to his house and my part of the payment cleared,

I had to sell the donor Shell for Rs. 25k as it was beyond repair and i had no place to park it, inspite of repeated request to clear it went unheard. Part of the money was used to clear the workshop dues related to the topolino and part towards my pending money.

As on date, i am Yet to receive Rs.30,000/- and our great guy sees my FB post to open a can of worms that are waiting to Bite no one but him.

My conscience is clear and i have nothing to fear. After such incidents,i have stopped taking cars from Wheeler Dealers and Narrow Minded people. A few projects are commercial and hence ive stopped posting here on Team Bhp

I have even more data to back up my case, but i have better things to do in life.

Worst thing, I had to cancel my family holiday as the same Jeevan joy refused to pay my dues. Most embarrassing situation ive ever faced in life. Expensive lesson learnt, a story for others to keep away from 2 sided people and not help people when in need.There is No Iorta of Truth in what Jeevan Joy speaks, hes always been contrasting in what he says. Such a Shame

I tried building the broken bridges, infact i even helped him buy a 1973 Super Beetle just a couple of months ago, but some guys dont know the meaning of GRATITUDE

Rest upto the Mods to decide the fate of this thread.

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 6th August 2015 at 01:30.
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Old 6th August 2015, 05:46   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Nice Joke, being an Ex- Banker for 13 years, my data and records are always clear and Correct

02nd December 2011 - Kingfisher went into doldrums and Jeevan Joy lost his Job. The restoration was Mid-way untill then.

22nd December 2011 - Rs. 22,000/- was paid to me , infact the last ever payment received by me, paid in cash.

28th December 2011 - Jeevan joy along with his best friend Jagadish Bhakta came home, ate the food i served , asked me for a favour to restore the car somehow, but Jeevan Joy will be unable to pay up since KF shut shop. This is the BEGINNING of my lifes BIGGEST BLUNDER, i fell into this emotional trap as Jeevan Joy was my so called very good friend untill then. I went ahead and broke my personal FD in my bank for Rs. 1,51,000/- and its all recorded.

5th August 2012 - The car was ready for the Bangalore Fiat Club Show and to be delivered to Jeevan Joy. The car was driven more than 70 kms and delivered, infact that particular day, the car was running since 9 am in the morning till 5 pm in the evening with multiple people driving it,

I delivered the car along with the usual monthly bills that he had concured to and with a promise i will be paid ASAP, till date i still maintained, restoration standard is not yet up there, but there is lot of scope for improvement, its all documented here on Team-bhp.

several months passed and Jeevan joy joined ARIK AIR in October 2012, but paying me my money was still a matter of doubt as he had no response.

12th November 2012 - Jeevan Joy called me home, as the car had few pending issues, which again is documented here on the forum, i took the car back, and also agreed to complete the RTO formalities, for which he paid, But my payment was still a subject matter of discussion.

After 12th Nov 2012 - My woes began, payments still not paid, inspite of repeated requests he turned a deaf ear and started verbally abusing me for inflating the restoration costs ( which he was all OK till 2012 ) That is when i decided to retain the car untill i receive payments.

January 2014 - Again Jeevan Joys friend Jagadeesh Bhakta intervened and i drove the car over to his house and my part of the payment cleared,

I had to sell the donor Shell for Rs. 25k as it was beyond repair and i had no place to park it, inspite of repeated request to clear it went unheard. Part of the money was used to clear the workshop dues related to the topolino and part towards my pending money.

As on date, i am Yet to receive Rs.30,000/- and our great guy sees my FB post to open a can of worms that are waiting to Bite no one but him.

My conscience is clear and i have nothing to fear. After such incidents,i have stopped taking cars from Wheeler Dealers and Narrow Minded people. A few projects are commercial and hence ive stopped posting here on Team Bhp

I have even more data to back up my case, but i have better things to do in life.

Worst thing, I had to cancel my family holiday as the same Jeevan joy refused to pay my dues. Most embarrassing situation ive ever faced in life. Expensive lesson learnt, a story for others to keep away from 2 sided people and not help people when in need.There is No Iorta of Truth in what Jeevan Joy speaks, hes always been contrasting in what he says. Such a Shame

I tried building the broken bridges, infact i even helped him buy a 1973 Super Beetle just a couple of months ago, but some guys dont know the meaning of GRATITUDE

Rest upto the Mods to decide the fate of this thread.
But of course He will try and blow smoke...

Emotional rant of how he does Charity and how he uses his own funds for restorations to prove how passionate an enthusiast he is! This is his ' Modus Operandi '!?

Why don't you post the Expense report made by you on Excel...we will see who is lying! It's a Fiat not a RR!!
6.15 Lacs has been collected as restoration charges alone! 3+ was spent to acquire the two Topos!

Let the Jury decide if this so called Concours' Restoration is worth 9+ lacs Rupees!?

Money is one thing...apart from the ridiculous charges let us talk about the Restoration itself!?

The Engine was trial and error...at least One year was wasted experimenting with the blooming ' Guru '
The day it was finally Delivered, the car had a brand new Radiator which was leaking Fluid and would not hold Fluid! Even today it does not!!

Tinkering and Paint!? 2 lacs !!!
Why would anyone Paint it in an Open Garage with a Dirt floor using the expensive SANDOX paint!?
Don't you know basic painting?...was that your first time?? Or you do all of your cars in this manner??

All the Mechanical work was done from the Ground up! Every Nut and bolt replaced!
Yet within one year, everything was redone and Billed again...and again!?
The expense report will show everything.
Please post for the benefit of future Restorations!

Moderators, He wants this to be pulled down...for obvious reasons. He's after all a Businessman!
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Old 6th August 2015, 06:06   #585
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Default Re: Pilots & his 1950 Mouse Restoration - Fiat Topolino Delivered

There's a lot of Pics and Correspondence which I will post for the benefit of future Restorers!
I don't want anyone to go through this mess...

This was our last conversation on Whatsapp...the whole transcript can be posted if the moderators allow.
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