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Old 15th February 2011, 00:09   #76
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
With reference to Pranlal's collection, and further to a conversation from the horse's mouth that I was privy to, all the cars were all (without exception) going to go to his museum. I am happy to wager that that will not be the case in its entirety. Let's wait and see..
The news is that many cars are not in the museum which was visited last week. Some of the masterpieces are still in Mumbai but will never come out as long as a certain autocrat is in power. Thanks Harit, you've said it as it is.
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Old 15th February 2011, 04:42   #77
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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The news is that many cars are not in the museum which was visited last week. Some of the masterpieces are still in Mumbai but will never come out as long as a certain autocrat is in power. Thanks Harit, you've said it as it is.
They're hardly going to get to the museum over night now are they?

Not sure what "masterpieces" you are referring to in the B'bay collection but the only cars I would really rate at D***ot that I saw on and off over the years are the 8 litre (with odd gauges), the 4.5 S-type and the boat tailed Rolls. I also had rather a soft spot for the AC Ace in M'war, but that's another story.

With the exception of a few outstanding machines, the collection is mostly average machinery.

Using digital photography as a similie, it's very much a case (in my own opinion which I am entirely entitled to before someone pipes up telling me what my opinion should be) of someone taking a 500 pictures and getting some total beauties in there. Still the achievement is what it is, and his dedication to keeping them (in whatever condition he could) is most admirable. A nice and pleasant man - rest in peace.

Like I said, let's wait and see what happens.
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Old 15th February 2011, 19:11   #78
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

Well I think you need to put some kitty aside and make a trip to the museum and take a math count of the cars displayed. Then make a judgment. What he has done in all fairness is not easy in today's day and age also. Secondly, the AC is displayed there, have meal and stare at it as it's the car on the corner of the museum and can be seen from the last table in the restaurant which features in the property.

Cheers
pS : here is no reason to take this personally.





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Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
They're hardly going to get to the museum over night now are they?

Not sure what "masterpieces" you are referring to in the B'bay collection but the only cars I would really rate at D***ot that I saw on and off over the years are the 8 litre (with odd gauges), the 4.5 S-type and the boat tailed Rolls. I also had rather a soft spot for the AC Ace in M'war, but that's another story.

With the exception of a few outstanding machines, the collection is mostly average machinery.

Using digital photography as a similie, it's very much a case (in my own opinion which I am entirely entitled to before someone pipes up telling me what my opinion should be) of someone taking a 500 pictures and getting some total beauties in there. Still the achievement is what it is, and his dedication to keeping them (in whatever condition he could) is most admirable. A nice and pleasant man - rest in peace.

Like I said, let's wait and see what happens.

Last edited by GTO : 15th February 2011 at 20:29. Reason: Removing the first line. Please do not get personal with fellow members
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Old 16th February 2011, 01:17   #79
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

Vintage1, I address this post to you, to clarify a situation which to some extend needs clarification. Please note that the Pranlal Bhogilal collection, as I understand, belongs to a trust in which VCCCI plays no part. At the moment we are not in any position to comment on Pranlals cars. He had his museum, and at the same time he always had some 20 or so odd cars at his residence. Even myself as a collector would always like to see atleast some of my trophies close to me.
Faster feels that some cars may be sold, we can only wait and watch, discuss as enthusiasts, but the trust which must be owning the cars can deal with them as they feel fit, within their charter. And we can only comment, nothing really more.
But, as I understand, VCCCI themselves own cars donated to them. Here is a not clear situation. I am aware that a 1920's Dodge Brothers from Pune has been donated by a Poonawalla family of Napier Road, Pune(not from THE Poonawalla family as I understand), that car seems to have been claimed by Shri Nitin as he had kept that in Ahmedabad as his car. Where that is now I do not know. Another vehicle is a Fiat pre 1930 truck, actually a water tender which was donated by the Turf club to VCCCI.
There was also a 1948 or so Lanchester and a Jaguar maybe Mark 7 donated by a Parsi family to VCCCI and was kept by Pranlal. I do not know where these cars have landed up. I am sure that more cars were donated to VCCCI.
Just remember, the present VCCCI set-up has no connection with Pranlals cars.
In the meanwhile, does anyone have any feedback whether VCCCI will mends its ways?

It is true that ever since Pranlal had a fall out with Mr. Dossa, he stopped bringing his cars to any event.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 16th February 2011 at 01:20.
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Old 16th February 2011, 02:24   #80
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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Faster feels that some cars may be sold, we can only wait and watch, discuss as enthusiasts, but the trust which must be owning the cars can deal with them as they feel fit, within their charter. And we can only comment, nothing really more.
Hi Harit, you've used the word "feels" to refer to my view, which is absolutely correct. Anything I have said is simply my opinion. At the end of the day, as long as the cars are kept well and used as they should, I really don't care who's name is on the registration documents. Then again, just my humble opinion.

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Well I think you need to put some kitty aside and make a trip to the museum and take a math count of the cars displayed. Then make a judgment. What he has done in all fairness is not easy in today's day and age also. Secondly, the AC is displayed there, have meal and stare at it as it's the car on the corner of the museum and can be seen from the last table in the restaurant which features in the property.

Cheers
pS : here is no reason to take this personally.
I thought you might pipe up. I'll leave you to reflect on the relevant section of my previous post.

As I said, credit must be given where due and I have certainly done that.

I have no idea who you are and how and why you seem to think you know what the basis for my "judgment" is, but I am quite capable of making my own mind up and I have. What your point about objective quantity has to do with my very personal and subjective analysis of quality, I have no idea. Either way, don't trouble yourself explaining it to me as I am not a renowned expert on cars in India or anywhere else (unlike yourself I would assume), so there is really no need to take heed of my views. They are just some random person's opinion - probably best ignored, so just ignore them.

There is no reason to take this personally either.

Best of luck to the collection, the VCCCI and the movement.

Over and out.

Last edited by Faster789 : 16th February 2011 at 02:34.
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Old 16th February 2011, 02:29   #81
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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Faster feels that some cars may be sold, we can only wait and watch, discuss as enthusiasts, but the trust which must be owning the cars can deal with them as they feel fit, within their charter. And we can only comment, nothing really more.
Hi Harit, you've used the word "feels" to refer to my view, which is absolutely correct. Anything I have said is simply my opinion. At the end of the day, as long as the cars are kept well and used as they should, I really don't care who's name is on the registration documents. Then again, just my humble opinion.
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Old 16th February 2011, 20:30   #82
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

Reading all these posts it appears that VCCCI as a glorious institution is being besmirched and tarnished by some individuals.
I can only wonder how VCCCI [affiliated to FIVA “Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens”(France), the apex body for the most lovely and famous Vintage Car and Bike Clubs around the world, with 85 clubs from 62 countries affiliated to it], has given its blessings to the very recent Nagpur Vintage Rally (13/02/2011) to classify Classic Cars and Bikes accepting entries of motor vehicles built between 1940-70.The rally was messed up with all kinds of cars and bikes of the 1960's (even a diesel engine fitted jeep)which competed with the oldies of the 1940's and 50's in the sweepstakes.
This is the news report about the "President" VCCCI.
2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)-dsc06789.jpg

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 16th February 2011 at 20:33.
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Old 17th February 2011, 13:59   #83
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

I wouldn't want to stoke anything further here. Let's just say that sitting in Mumbai it's not fair to call the Bhogilal collection average. There are the beautiful Maybach, Bentleys, Hispano Suizas, Invicta, Lagondas, innumerable Packards, Lancias etc. Yes, they aren't in perfect condition YET! No, they have nothing to do with the VCCCI. Mr Bhogilal did donate a Phantom II to the country but it was promptly returned!?!
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Old 26th February 2011, 00:57   #84
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

Hello All ,

I have just come across the discussion on this thread , I also have a VCCCI story - a long long time back - I had rung up Mr. Dossa regarding the Indo-Pak peace rally - during the last decade - I was welcomed into the VCCCI - I went and met Mr. Dossa at his office in Fort ( I was staying at Ballard Estate in those days ) - paid up the required fee in hard currency for self & my brother ( PERAK in Team BHP ) ( being a small town ( Lucknow ) person - I was in awe of the VCCCI and Mr. Bhogilal ) - I was informed I will receive my membership details - I am still waiting for my membership .

But immediately after paying up the non-membership fee for VCCCI - I had Mr. Dossa on my phone lines every day requesting me for a feed into the Bhikaji sisters in Lucknow - who had a daily drive 1948 Buick Roadmaster . The car was sold from Lucknow ( I was not privy to the sale information ) . I have never received a phone call from Mr. Dossa subsequently ever since then and ....I never received a membership of the VCCCI even after handing over the required fee to Mr. Dossa in person.

I understand he is busy person - doing whatever he does , but after receiving the money a decent person would have have been honourable enough to acknowledge the fact.

As for the Bhikaji family they think they have been duped.

Regards
Chauhan
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Old 31st March 2011, 00:12   #85
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

I suggest that we rename this thread VCCCI and an event held in January 2011. Or split, VCCCI and Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011). The reason is that VCCCI deserves its own thread as there are still "going-ons" which need to be exposed. For the benefit of vintage and classic car owners in and around Mumbai, that includes Pune and Nashik.

I have it from a very reliable source that the new self appointed President of VCCCI is offering directorships on VCCCI. This is info is so reliable, almighty could have told me. So what happened to the existing directors? Now pay attention, the stand is that directorship was by invitation anyway. Can any lawyers on this forum comment on that? This is sheer nepotism(a word I learned on Times Now, it has deep meaning).

I have also been told about a year ago that VCCCI has been granted a plot of land for a Museum somewhere on the Satara Road. If this is for VCCCI, will its members benefit? WIAA members have already lost their garage at Sasoon Docks to the bearded man, just what will happen here I wonder.

The reason I am again raising this point is that the bearded man has till date NOT commented or contradicvted any points raised by me before either publicly, or privately, he has just been using obscene language against me in private conversations. Please be aware, Delhi had a situation a few years ago which one member cleaned up, Mumbai has the best of collections and good collectors, we cannot allow this to continue here. If the support I receive were only a little more public, the bearded man would realise that he has little support.

I have even heard that VCCCI is to conduct a rally in or to Pune on 23rd April. Why is this info not known to the public? It came from VCCCI inner circle, ofcourse there is always a chance that they will postpone/cancel, the final outcome will be for later. But this event is being planned, and no one is publicly aware. This screams of nepotism!

Cheers harit
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Old 31st March 2011, 00:27   #86
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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If the support I receive were only a little more public, the bearded man would realise that he has little support.
I don't know about support, but i know that poor President is going to be blacklisted by your friend for allowing you to go on an on about him on this thread
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Old 31st March 2011, 01:29   #87
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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I don't know about support, but i know that poor President is going to be blacklisted by your friend for allowing you to go on an on about him on this thread
You are right, and they may not even realise that the starter of a thread does not control its contents.. But, an interesting question, what would be your stand on this?

Cheers harit
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Old 31st March 2011, 23:18   #88
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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You are right, and they may not even realise that the starter of a thread does not control its contents.. But, an interesting question, what would be your stand on this?

Cheers harit
Hi Harit, honestly If you are looking for support on this issue on the forum? We dont really have that many active VCCCI members here to form an opinion. By that I mean actual participants at VCCCI ralies or owners of cars registered with the VCCCI (actually thats an interesting poll, How many VCCCI members do we have here?) Even if there are! you will not find them coming up forth with anything.Most are happy to participate and get on with life. Am I one of them? maybe not! Do wheelings and dealings of the people who run VCCCI bother me? Maybe not! But i do definately care about loss in quality of events and its absolute inability to represent our concerns and interests to the Governing bodies on a whole that sour our ownership experiences. Instead of expanding to a larger audience i think we are shrinking in quality and reach. Just compare the threads from 2006 and this thread. We don't even have quality pictures on this thread. There are definately issues that need to be sorted out, however i don't think this forum is the right medium.

However should you decide to beat this out over a couple of beers on a Sunday morning you will probably get a room full of symphathisers Who knows your bearded friend may decide to drop in, afterall he showed up for the FCCCI meet dint he

Finally please remember nepotism gets you only so far, enthusiasts rule! Honestly are you so interested in becoming a director of the VCCCI? rgds
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Old 1st April 2011, 23:26   #89
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

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I have even heard that VCCCI is to conduct a rally in or to Pune on 23rd April. Why is this info not known to the public? It came from VCCCI inner circle, ofcourse there is always a chance that they will postpone/cancel, the final outcome will be for later. But this event is being planned, and no one is publicly aware. This screams of nepotism!
Cheers harit
And today I have heard that the Pune rally is cancelled. Interesting, a rally in Pune is planned and cancelled without even any formal anouncement. So Puneites, why do you not go the Nagpur way? Eventually you will have to.

Cheers harit

P.S. After posting this, I saw the moles post. Maybe too much Lassi. But you are getting there. I just read your post again. Did I ever give an impression that I want to be a director, and receive notices from authorities for non compliance of statuary requirements? I have no time for that. I really could have tried to form an alternative club, that much support I have. But that is not the issue. The cars, history are my hobby and interest. Period. And VCCCI is shrinking in its meaningful existance, while the bearded man is trying to expand his hold on a shrinking turf. How unproductive. And can you suggest another "right" forum? We are reaching far and wide, upto Nagpur and beyond, at least here is some sort of discussion, where else will you find that? And do not mistake, the bearded man reads all on tbhp. I know that for sure. he even phones people whom he knows when they post something he did not like. Cheers

Last edited by harit : 1st April 2011 at 23:39.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 16:48   #90
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Default Re: 2011 Vintage Car & Motorcycle Fiesta (Mumbai, 30th Jan 2011)

During a recent visit to Gujrat I was given a copy of DNA Ahmedabad edition where my car pictured. A nice prominent shot. The Ford Model T also looks nice.

Cheers harit
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Last edited by harit : 22nd July 2011 at 16:49.
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