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Old 16th March 2011, 11:35   #91
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

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am glad you read what I had to say on the subject and have deleted it as it doesn't serve a purpose !
Understand absolutely .....what is going to happen to the car now ?

I understand it still has some engine issues to be sorted. Will it be returning to Hyderabad soon and where willit be displayed ?

Was Rashid Bhai at the event too. I really would be greatfull if you have contact infor for him, email or phone that you could give me.
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Old 16th March 2011, 11:45   #92
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

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Understand absolutely .....what is going to happen to the car now ?

I understand it still has some engine issues to be sorted. Will it be returning to Hyderabad soon and where willit be displayed ?

Was Rashid Bhai at the event too. I really would be greatfull if you have contact infor for him, email or phone that you could give me.
I think it wasn't tuned well, there shouldn't be any issue with the engine, its just done 356 miles. A RR engine should tick over in a quarter turn of the handle. And with things tuned to perfection a swipe of the advance retard lever should get the car to fire too. Ali Taqi could set the engine to do that. Because of poor compression he couldn't demonstrate the swipe start but he did show the engine starting on a quarter turn on another Phantom once.

The car will head back to Hyderabad to return to its display in the museum.

This time around I didn't see him. Next time I meet him will get his email for you.

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Old 16th March 2011, 12:31   #93
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

The colour on the Stutz is a deep purple a similar shade that is done the Citroen Traction avant that was in our workshop. In the sun the car looks to be black or a deep blue but once the sun is down you can make out the colour. Here are some pics i took of the Stutz which gives us an idea of the shade.
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Old 16th March 2011, 18:58   #94
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

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Even before the restoration I was against it as I felt something very special about the historic aspect of the alteration and also the aging of the car for a century would disappear. My feelings were mixed on account of that. The car has lost its appeal as the eccentric seventh Nizam's ceremonial coach. All those years in Hyderabad as it stayed put in garages are gone forever in terms of the effect they had on the car's appearance. It doesn't look like a 100 year old car in appearance. All shiny and brand new, it seems to have lost a great deal of that exotic aged look.
DKG, I know you had a lot of emotional energy vested in the car so I am sorry to hear you are disappointed.


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But I guess the owner is happy and many viewers will be wowed. I am not in any way suggesting its the restoration that has compromised that aspect of the car. I doubt if any one anywhere in the world has achieved a restoration where a 100 year old car gets restored looking 100 years old. That may be an impossible assignment and even if someone manages to achieve it it would cost ten times what this restoration did.
A top quality restoration where the cars is restored to originality is a rare thing these days, even in the West. In any event, it would appear that the that job was rushed through, or if that is too loose a term, it was certainly done as quickly as possible. Still, how nice that the car is healthy and alive again - always a pleasure to see.

Were either of Bombay 8 Litres Bentleys there?
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Old 16th March 2011, 19:31   #95
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LOL....I am sure you are aware that none of the 8 Litres made it

I would have loved to see either of the Merc 540K's too....wonder what is the situation on the non Bhogilal 540K

The 3 Lite Bently was there though looking fine, now that would be a bomb to drive !

Last edited by wasif : 16th March 2011 at 19:37.
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Old 16th March 2011, 19:39   #96
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

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LOL....I am sure you are aware that none of the 8 Litres made it

I would have loved to see either of the Merc 540K's too....wonder what is the situation on the non Bhogilal 540K

The 3 Lite Bently was there though looking fine, now that would be a bomb to drive !
A couple of people seem to think I was there, but I'm afraid I didn't go to the concours so no idea what was there other than the pictures. The 3Litre was a proper Go-Kart in its time! I would love to have seen the Big Bentleys, the 540ks and the other cars we discussed in the other thread at a meet.

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Old 16th March 2011, 20:21   #97
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

Here are he pics of the alloy XK 120 courtsey Kasli
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Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011-xk-120.jpg  


Last edited by wasif : 16th March 2011 at 20:22.
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Old 16th March 2011, 21:17   #98
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

Does anyone have good photographs of the 59 impala, different angles?
Please post.
Regards,
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Old 17th March 2011, 00:34   #99
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

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Does anyone have good photographs of the 59 impala, different angles?
Needless to say, we do recognise that car btw!
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Old 17th March 2011, 08:26   #100
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

Prince Michael of Kent took the boat tailed Rolls for a spirited spin around the greens.

These pics are when he got back to the enclosure, pleased as punch with the handling.

Glad to see someone got to have fun with the cars!
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Old 17th March 2011, 10:09   #101
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

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I am sorry to hear you are disappointed.
The disappointment I might clarify is not over the restoration but the fact that the car was touched. My personal view is that as a museum exhibit this exercise adds zero value.

That said given the mandate by the Princess to take the car back to its original iteration, the time and budget given, the restoration is truly remarkable.

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A top quality restoration where the cars is restored to originality is a rare thing these days, even in the West.
The exterior treatment of 94RF was a slight disappointment too so you are right, even the West seems to struggle to turn out something outstanding. They should have gone in for a milder polish instead of trying to make it look super gloss. Unfortunately large sections of the car remain dull so parts of the car are well polished and parts are very dull with visible swirl marks. And the interior though almost faultless just doesn't cut it, looks too new for such an old car !! British leather looks cheap and fake, I couldn't figure out why. Same problem with the Nurburg leather, looked almost like plastic ! New Rolls Royces have fabulous leather, I wonder why this grade of leather looks so awful

Last edited by DKG : 17th March 2011 at 10:28.
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Old 17th March 2011, 10:22   #102
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

Must agree with you on this DKG.

If you take some time to look at the pictures the proportions from every angle are sublime and immortal.

The car before the restoration looked a bit dowdy with those ugly fenders, the front door treatment and the slab sided look around the running boards.

After the restoration it has emerged like a butterfly from its coccon to take its rightfull place as one of the most significant RR Ghosts around.

I do agree to a certain extent that some of the originaity was lost bu you see when the car was "modernised" way back thats whenthe originality was lost. And if it had not been restored back we would never have been able to see the original beauty of the car.

I too was of the opinion that it should not have been restored but now seeing the great job done on it and how it looks I am convinced this was the right decision.

Now what is required is that it be tuned and made to run as superbly as it looks and it should be displayed and maintained in the same condition.

About the rims, are you sure they are the correct ones as compared to teh old B?W pictures of ehcar the diameter looks a bit smaller. What size tires is she running? The colur shade als appears a tad lighter than what was originally on the car but it really suites the car.

All in all one superb car has recieved a fitting restoration. Isn't it poetic that the most important Indian ruler should have had the most important RR around and that it has survived when soo many others from the same family have dissapeared and has regained its position at the top of the RR Silver Ghost charts forever.

Like they say a picture speaks a thousand words lets let the pictures do the talking.
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Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011-winner202.jpg  


Last edited by wasif : 17th March 2011 at 10:24.
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Old 17th March 2011, 10:39   #103
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

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After the restoration it has emerged like a butterfly from its coccon to take its rightfull place as one of the most significant RR Ghosts around.
I completely agree, the altered car looked awful compared to the original form. The orginal Barker design is too supremely balanced and stylish. But remember the Silver Jubillee celebrations were a historic event in Hyderabad and the alterations on the car were reflective of a Nizam who didn't want to be ostentatious and buy a new Rolls. Instead he sanctioned $500 to give the car a modern appearance. An eccentric ruler, whacky railway garages and a whackier alteration. That had some value Wasif, my regret is that has all been binned into the trash can. This car for all its beauty needn't have been meddled with. It eventually reflected Osman Ali Khan's thinking and that as a Hyderabadi was precious to me as a museum exhibit. A Barker's masterpiece vis-a-vis a Nizam's eccentric alteration? I'd have stuck to the latter especially when it was in a museum of the Nizam's

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if it had not been restored back we would never have been able to see the original beauty of the car.
You are right. I guess its more important that the car get its due for what it originally was. That said, something precious has been lost. When you stand by the car for sometime and gaze at it you will understand what I mean, especially when you get to see the others still in their 100 plus year guise. The overall look of Hyderabad weather having aged her over 100 years was spectacular. That is gone forever, but I am sure the vast majority of visitors to the museum won't miss it.

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About the rims, are you sure they are the correct ones as compared to teh old B?W pictures of ehcar the diameter looks a bit smaller.
You are right the original rims were apparently larger diameter. What Manvendra Singh has done is to compensate by going in for a larger side profile tyre and he has managed to regain the car's balance in side profile. You won't find the car looking odd, as if riding on small wheels. She looks very smart now.

Last edited by DKG : 17th March 2011 at 10:44.
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Old 17th March 2011, 10:56   #104
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

Deepak,
All said by you and Wasif is so true.

The first photograph I saw of the car, the color disappointed me, (see the original on the flatbed) it was canary yellow. Deep yellow was the color of the Asif jahi flag, the very reason RR had been ordered in that color.

As far as I know the leather had been imported from France, same company who did the original upholstery.

The restoration job is beyond words, superb, magnificent, highly professional.

The two princesses at the show is also a welcome sight, grace personified. Imagine princess Durru Shevar and princess Niloufer in it.

Deepak, I am expecting from you and Wasif, photographs of our 59 Impala.
Regards,
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Old 17th March 2011, 10:57   #105
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Default Re: Cartier "Travel with Style" Concourse d' Elegance 2011

One more thing to be noted here is that the quality of restoration was sympathetic and understated.

Look at the shine on the radiator and the headlights etc, its not too bright and loud like you see on the Stutz from the same restorer.

The woodwork , paint and even the upholstry is not as flashy or shiny and new looking as the Stutz.

The look of age has been retained to a large extent and thats what is making this retoration so appealing.

I want to see pictures of the engine if possible from both sides to see how it has been cleaned up.
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