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Old 1st April 2011, 13:17   #1
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Default The Ideal Concours de Elegance : What it really should be !!

For any industry there is a need for a forum where the industry gathers to promote itself. Usually for most businesses its the trade shows. Trade shows are serious business and the model has been thoroughly worked out to cater to the needs of businesses and consumers.

For the Vintage car world events like a Concours de Elegance can provide that platform. But for it to actually serve the purpose and promote the art or hobby or industry it needs to be very well thought out and planned and executed meticulously.

I feel as the vintage car scene is slowing waking up in India as more and more players seem to be recognising the worth of their possesions and increasingly owners are spending vast sums of money to restore their cars we need platforms that cater specifically to promoting the whole business of vintage car ownership and maintenance

I have been attending vintage car events for more than four decades. And while for me its always been fun I have yet to recall a single event where there wasn't considerable heartburn from one camp of owners. Some of the heartburn is justified and some unjustified.

But it struck me that why not evolve a model for these events which caters to the widest possible need making it an invaluable resource for the industry.

Vintage cars like art are all about the ownership and enjoyment of something very special. Its not necessarily a personal pleasure. It can be something you draw pleasure from when you share it with others. You draw peer group recognition from the whole experience and it makes you feel good.

So what should the ideal Concours de Elegance event be?

To kick start the discussion I will put down what I personally feel it should be and then we take it from there:

1. A forum where you can compete with fellow owners to win the Best of Show Prize

2. A forum where you can compete to win the Best of Class Prize

3. A forum where you can compete to win the Best Preserved Class Prize

4. A forum where you can compete to win the Best Resurrection Prize

5. A forum where you share your car for educational purpose as a display (non competing section)

6. A forum where you learn about a marque each year

7. A forum which earns revenue for the sponsor, the organiser and (why not?) the owner !!

8. A forum where parts and auto memorabilia are traded

9. A forum where cars are traded

10. A forum where owners get to go on a fun drive with fellow vintage car owners

11. A forum where there is an exhibition of a special skill in restoration, like upholstery, metal forming, wood work etc

12. A forum where vendors can set up stall to showcase their wares/skills

When it comes to judging I feel we should follow a simple rule. Limit the competing section each year to five or maximum ten marques. Invite a world renowned expert for the marque as a judge and leave it to them entirely to decide which car deserves the prize. Publish in advance the credentials of the judges so that participants know their car is being judged by a recognised expert.

All entries should be invited by the organisers. The judges can also network to form the selection committee. Owners can send in their entry requests with pictures and the judges can vote what cars to invite. This gives every owner a direct chance to try his luck in getting an entry and no one person gets to decide on who participates. This can be done through a website with a judges voting section. Once the judges select the cars they would like to see participating invites are sent out. This eliminates all politics. All entries should be paid transportation to and from the venue plus say Rs 50000 per car to the owner as revenue for sharing his car in the event. I see this as an incentive to collectors to loan their collections as displays and earn good money.

If a owner is confident his car can compete he enlists in the competing class and if he is not comfortable as regards the condition of his car he can enlist in the non competing class.

The Best of Show and Class prizes to include fun things like holiday for the owner and family etc in India or abroad. Or alternatively a cash prize. All prize winners to be featured in a magazine of repute by way of an advertisement paid for by the organisers. A picture of the car with the owner and a small write up. That ensures the owner not only gets publicity and recognition at the event but in media too.

Just some thoughts to get the discussion going. I am sure with so many of you passionate about vintage cars we should be able to evolve a sound model that works for the majority if not everyone.

So please do participate and don't hesitate to voice your opinion. Its best we talk things openly and clearly.

Last edited by DKG : 1st April 2011 at 13:36.
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Old 4th April 2011, 15:37   #2
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Default Re: The Ideal Concours de Elegance : What it really should be !!

Deepak,I am suprised at a zero response to your idea especially since according to some, lots of people are unhappy with the way the vintage movement in india is percieved.I for one have often had reservations but just dont have the time and quite frankly the inclination to do anything.I am happy enjoying my hobby but will happily support anyone who wants to promote the movement by contributing my time and knowledge.BUT how can EGO be handled?Maybe since Harit always calls a spade a spade and is quite passionate about the way things are going he could take a cue from your post and take the lead?
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Old 4th April 2011, 17:23   #3
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Default Re: The Ideal Concours de Elegance : What it really should be !!

DKG

This is a subject that really needs to be addressed in depth but I am going to try to summaries it here.

I think the time is ripe for a dramatic overhaul and restructuring of the vintage / classic car ralley / concours business in India going by the fact that quality of restoration is now definitely on par with the rest of the world and that the hobby is more popular than it has ever been.

What is needed is periodic, maybe annual or even bi annual concours, in each major town open to all. Owners should have the option to walk in and regester any car that meets a certain criteria ( which need to be drawn up first) of originality, history, restoration standard, desireablity and rarity.

Cars that qualify get entered automatically and if there are any other cars in the vicinity that meet the criteria but have not been entered then the organisers should go out and invite the owners of these cars to bring them for the show.

Classes will have to be established on the lines of any international concours and then some that cater to the uniqueness of the classic car situation in India. Each catagory has a best of award and two runners up. And then you have the same for the best of show.

The concours season has to be identified and all the major city events put on a calender culminating in one grand national level concours where the best ( all the three winners from all catagories) for all the individual events are brought together.

This will crown the Best of show and such for that year in India.

Supporting events for the concours could be a car corral / auction, parts and litrature sale counters and such at each event.

India needs a vintage and classic car / bike auction house and here is the chance to start one.

I am sure finding venues and sponsors for the individual city events will not be a serious problem.

You will need committees in each city loosly tied together in a federation to take car of events on the ground.

The grand national should rotate from city to city each year and will be the pinnacle of the classic / vintage car scene each year. Once this is a go who needs events like Cartier and such.

Maybe the winner of the best of show colud be offered the possibility of sending his car to some of the major international concours too.

So this is my basic view of what needs to be done.

Drawing up judging parameters and locating qualified unbiassed judges is also another area that will have to be done

There is no need for a "xxCCC"or any other "CCC". There are enough know and dedicated members here on this forum from all the major cities who can be approached ot take charge of their city's events.

One thing to be kept in mind it that transparencly is paramount at all stages.

Start it small and keep on with it and you will have a huge following in no time. Remember respect has to be earned , not demanded, and this is only possible if your dealings are fair and transparent.

The unsavoury individuals of the vintage scene in India will be history if this formula is followed.

DKG.

You have experience, a level head and the required contacts in Hyderabad. Why not start by organising the first Hyderabad Concours. Maybe you can have the first event at your own farm or even Prem Parbat ( teh Pittie place), imagine how regal it would be in those vast grounds.

It can be a low key affair, no advertising other than on social media and word of mouth. You know the cars in Hyderabad and you know the owners so why not take the plunge instead of just talking about things.

Last edited by karlosdeville : 6th December 2012 at 14:10. Reason: See PM
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Old 4th April 2011, 20:51   #4
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Default Re: The Ideal Concours de Elegance : What it really should be !!

The idea behind this thread is more to build consensus on the key elements that should define a concours event's management policy so that the widest possible preferences/viewpoints are addressed and overall the event has a positive response.

I am hoping that feedback given here may actually be used to improve the way things have been handled at Cartier.

Then there is always the opportunity for more people to get into organising vintage car events across the country. I am sure if the big corporates get into the game and things are done in a methodical and professional manner a worth event can get established.

For my part, given my limited resources and experience, I can at best broach the subject with a few people with whose help a Hyderabad concours gets organised.

The palaces in Hyderabad are awesome venues. Far more impressive than both sites chosen by Cartier. They should get used for a annual vintage car event. I would be delighted if Cartier chooses these palaces as a future venue.

But more importantly its the spirit behind these events that needs to be pure, crystal clear and inclusive just.

Lets see how this discussion progresses and if any points are raised on what should constitute a ideal concours event whereby we can eventually build a consensus.

Once it becomes evident how we can avoid the usual pitfalls in organising such events we can move onto the next level of actually organising a event based on the model that evolves here

Keep the ideas and suggestions flowing
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Old 5th December 2012, 16:07   #5
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Default Re: The Ideal Concours de Elegance : What it really should be !!

I have been following the conversation on the 3rd Cartier event from afar, and I must say that given all the complaining on that particular topic it is suprising that the members who have been so vocal about criticising the event as it is, have not contributed to this thread. The criticisms have ranged from the selection of cars, the dubious prizes to the holding of the press event.

This thread is a real opportunity to build something, perhaps it could even be the making of a Team-BHP concours, free of political/marketing agendas and by and for enthusiasts.

It's easy to criticise (as valid as some of those points made may be), not quite as easy to be constructive sometimes I guess.

This is not directed at anyone in particular and I don't hold the Cartier event in particularly high regard myself.
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Old 5th December 2012, 16:30   #6
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Originally Posted by Faster789 View Post
it is suprising that the members who have been so vocal about criticising the event as it is, have not contributed to this thread. The criticisms have ranged from the selection of cars, the dubious prizes to the holding of the press event.

This thread is a real opportunity to build something
I am glad someone finally saw some merit in building a consensus on how events should be organised and managed and various selection judging criteria outlined.

Fully agree with your view that criticism alone has little value when there isn't a constructive element to show the way forward.

If we could have some views from you perhaps others will join in and who knows as you suggest maybe a TBHP event could emerge
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Old 5th December 2012, 17:45   #7
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Default Re: The Ideal Concours de Elegance : What it really should be !!

LOL...knowing how things happen in India I wouldn't be holding my breath on seeing a pure hi end Concours event free of politics and favouritism happening in India in the near future.

Too many axes to grind out there !
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Old 6th December 2012, 15:46   #8
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If we could have some views from you perhaps others will join in and who knows as you suggest maybe a TBHP event could emerge
I think they would be wasted words (regardless of any merit they might have) DKG. I can accurately predict that the complaining will continue but this thread is unlikely to grow!

The only thing I would suggest is that one starts small. Arrange an event for 15 - 20 cars, things will naturally gather momentum from there.
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Old 6th December 2012, 20:27   #9
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The only thing I would suggest is that one starts small. Arrange an event for 15 - 20 cars, things will naturally gather momentum from there.
Planning to do just that. I plan on starting the drives soon and eventually have a weekend based fun gathering at Falaknuma. Exotic ambience, cars, people and great food. Should be a fun way to enjoy these magnificent machines.

There's a very scenic drive to a place called Srisailam from Falaknuma. This one can be done in 250 kms, 325kms and 460 km round trip stretches. That can be the main drive around the event. There's a shorter circular drive of about 170 kms. So quite a few options and these are all fun drives.

On a regular basis would love to do the outer ring road stretch to Falaknuma for a sumptuous breakfast, this is about 100 kms round trip. There's also the airport Novotel which has a great access via the ORR and ideal for vintage cars.

Eventually Hyderabad will have a 165 km circular outer ring road which would be perfect for such drives.

We have been doing this with motorcycles every Sunday for years now and it's been the most enjoyable aspect of my weekends. Would love to extend it to vintage cars.

Last edited by DKG : 6th December 2012 at 20:30.
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Old 6th December 2012, 20:38   #10
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faster, A team BHP event is a great idea,but no concours please. Let's start these events with just good cars in a vintage ambience, no judging, so no politics. Hyderabad can host the first, sponsors can be found provided we start small with no grandiose ideas. I am willing to spend time effort and contribute some funds , but it must become a TEAM effort, not just one individual. it could be a two day event with some technical sessions on all aspects of the vintage car, mechanical as well as cosmetic. game?
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Old 6th December 2012, 22:21   #11
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Let's start these events with just good cars in a vintage ambience, no judging, so no politics.
Pay and play ! That's been our philosophy for the bike rides and for years now its been working brilliantly. I quite agree with the non judging and non prize aspect as invariably politics enter the equation.

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Hyderabad can host the first, sponsors can be found provided we start small with no grandiose ideas. I am willing to spend time effort and contribute some funds , but it must become a TEAM effort, not just one individual. it could be a two day event with some technical sessions on all aspects of the vintage car, mechanical as well as cosmetic. game?
Venue options

1. Falaknuma

Phenomenal ambience. Food is good and out of town guests (well in town too ) can stay the night. Great connectivity to Bangalore highway and the Srisailam road with minimal traffic issues

2. Novotel airport

Directly connected to Bangalore and Srisailam roads. Will work out much cheaper than Falaknuma but lacks the special ambience of the palace.

Activity options

Saturday assemble at tea with cars at venue for a lazy evening of enjoying the cars in a beautiful setting. lavish dinner

early Sunday morning drive to

Option A distance return 160 kms

Drive to Hillpark restaurant for breakfast on Bangalore highway. This is a lovely restaurant where you can drive up to the table ! So you sit around all the cars and eat Just before Jadcherla junction, this is about 80 kms from the venues.

Option B distance return 100 kms

Drive via outer ring road to Jubillee hills for a general public display at KBR park followed by lunch at either Park Hyatt or Novotel or Westin

Option C distance return 250 to 460 kms Srisailam road. After 125 kms you encounter the Srisailam forest and lovely ghat roads.This option however should be planned with a overnight stay at the destination to avoid it getting too tiring. facilities are minimal though

Just some ideas, lets put our heads together and come up with what most would consider a super fun weekend.

The Falaknuma ambience is truly spectacular, just enjoying our cars in that setting coupled with a lovely drive along the super silky Bangalore highway is a great way to enjoy the weekend.

Out of town cars can come in on a car carrier. Owners can fly in for the fun drives. I can try and organise these carriers from TVS

Last edited by DKG : 6th December 2012 at 22:32.
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Old 6th December 2012, 22:30   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG

Pay and play ! That's been our philosophy for the bike rides and for years now its been working brilliantly. I quite agree with the non judging and non prize aspect as invariably politics enter the equation.

Venue options

1. Falaknuma

Phenomenal ambience. Food is good and out of town guests (well in town too ) can stay the night. Great connectivity to Bangalore highway and the Srisailam road with minimal traffic issues

2. Novotel airport

Directly connected to Bangalore and Srisailam roads. Will work out much cheaper than Falaknuma but lacks the special ambience of the palace.

Activity options

Saturday assemble at tea with cars at venue for a lazy evening of enjoying the cars in a beautiful setting. lavish dinner

early Sunday morning drive to

Option A distance return 160 kms

Drive to Hillpark restaurant for breakfast on Bangalore highway. This is a lovely restaurant where you can drive up to the table ! So you sit around all the cars and eat Just before Jadcherla junction, this is about 80 kms from the venues.

Option B distance return 100 kms

Drive via outer ring road to Jubillee hills for a general public display at KBR park followed by lunch at either Park Hyatt or Novotel or Westin

Option C distance return 250 to 460 kms Srisailam road. After 125 kms you encounter the Srisailam forest and lovely ghat roads.This option however should be planned with a overnight stay at the destination to avoid it getting too tiring. facilities are minimal though

Just some ideas, lets put our heads together and come up with what most would consider a super fun weekend.

The Falaknuma ambience is truly spectacular, just enjoying our cars in that setting coupled with a lovely drive along the super silky Bangalore highway is a great way to enjoy the weekend.
Please count me in as a guest for e first one or might just come with a car. All the best and options sounded off are really nice. Love the hill park one to drive to your table

Cheers
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Old 6th December 2012, 22:40   #13
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Will meet up with Falaknuma staff and work out the details of a weekend package. basically it should be tea, lavish dinner on Saturday and lunch and tea on Sunday, with a night's stay.
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Old 6th December 2012, 22:40   #14
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Count my vote for the Falaknuma. it's a fabulous venue. If Tvs can help with the logistics, I am game to bring a car from here.How about February? after that it gets a bit hot.
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Old 6th December 2012, 22:44   #15
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Count my vote for the Falaknuma. it's a fabulous venue. If Tvs can help with the logistics, I am game to bring a car from here.How about February? after that it gets a bit hot.
Will work things out on the Falaknuma stay and the logistics bit. Ideal time in Hyderabad is November through February

We could work out things with TVS where we can have our cars transported anywhere in India for such weekends. just the thought of all this is exciting, imagine how much fun the actual experience will be !

Last edited by DKG : 6th December 2012 at 22:46.
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